I can't believe this..

[Zachriel]

Re: I can't believe this..

Originally posted by HappySunShine For three hours I played and everything was going great and then I declared war on the Russians. All they had was regular archers and spearmen, nothing special. Yet my veteran and alot of times elite knights would seemingly randomly die to them. Even attacking an archer with a defense of 1 would sometimes kill my knights. I attacked a warrior, just a regular warrior, with my elite knight and it DIED! But that's not even the worst case. The final stunt was when I attacked just a regular old spearman on a size 3 city and it took my army of 3 elite knights down to red without losing a single hitpoint. How ridiculous is that? And is the defense of 3 for knights correct or is that a typo? Every time an archer with an attack of 2 attacks a veteran knight, the knight loses majority of the time. Civilization 3 isn't a difficult game, the AI isn't any harder than it was in civ2. The simple fact is that the biggest part of the game has a major flaw in it. No game can survive in MP if it doesn't have some sort of consistency to its play, nor can it be called strategy when the outcome of battles are random. Is this going to be fixed in PTW?

You may want to study the Civ3 combat system in more detail. It is easily mastered, and some knowledge of how probability affects combat will be quite helpful in multiplayer games. I think if you try real hard, you can master it, then you'll be able to play with the better players.

[Velociryx]

Hey Zach....wasn't he the guy who said that "playing and building up your empire for three hours and then attacking" wasn't strategy, or something?

Just...curious.

-=Vel=-

[HappySunShine]

Yeah I was the one that said it and I'm right. Any rookie can build an empire. It's kind of why in civ2 all the rookies played deity because there was no rushing and no expansion. Just sitting there irrigating and building roads and temples does not take skill.

[Velociryx]

Ahhh...I get you...so the three hours you mentioned in the game above was just a test then. An example of what NOT to do.

Congrats on the three rush designs, btw....I'll bet NONE of them have ever been discussed on the strat forums here....you know, since none of us have any real talent....

-=Vel=-

And you're right....shuffling all those units around on the map takes WORLDS of skill, what with all those complex supply lines and zones of control! It's MURDER! I forgot myself for a moment....

[vondrack]

Vel, I just want to say for the record, how much I admire your patience! I have still much to learn... I would just blast away after two of the offending posts of this cocky SunnyBoy.

I just find it funny, HappySunShine, that you complain of a wrecked combat model, arguing that it makes your Civ2 rush strategies (or tactics, whatever it is...) unreliable. As if the strategy you're successfully using would be the measure of a good combat model. I have always thought it's different. First, there is a combat model. You master it and you become a master of this combat model. You mastered Civ2 combat model and apparently became a master of it. Hats off. * vondrack bows, but not too much *

But Civ3 uses a different combat model (and I am still neglecting the fact that Civ is not just about the combat model) that involves a little more bit of randomness. Thus, you will have yet to show if you can be as good a player as you're in Civ2. Simply because this is a new model, so who is the Master and who is the Loser is not yet clear. If you prove yourself a champion, great. Would that mean the combat model was... not wrecked? No! That would mean you're a master of this model, too. And if you fail? Would THAT mean the model was wrong? No! That would mean you're great in mastering one model, but not another.

AFAIK, ladder positions do not suffer from occasional strokes of bad luck, right? If you lose one game to a particularly nasty string of bad luck, well... there would still be many more games for you to prove it was just that - bad luck? Right?

Calling others rookies and lamers just because of their opinions is just showing off bad manners. This thread is a great example of why Vel has earned such a great respect here at 'Poly. Dunno how great an MP player he is. Dunno if all of his strategies are as great as they seem to be. But one thing is for sure. He is a great guy. Always polite, patient, and helpful.

HappySunShine... and what are you? Why should we care for what you say when you say it the way you do? You may be right in what you are saying about rushes. You may be right about various things. Know what? I will still not like you. I will still like Vel.

I guess one time you will find out that this principle works. Not only here in the forums. You may be successful. You may be #1 on the Civ2-3-... and ATP ladders. You may be the constant winner. You may wallow in money. And yet... you will lack friends. People who would like you because of what you are. Think of that.

[Theseus]

EDITED BY MING...

ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN INSULTS.

THE NEXT PERSON THAT CONTINUES THIS CRAP WILL NOT BE POSTING FOR A WHILE.

(this was being posted as I was making my post)

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Ming]

And to think that this thread used to have some good discussion...

First... let's get back on topic and not have a debate on whether somebody will have friends or not...

But to answer your question vondrack so we can get this crap out of the way and get back to discussing the issues instead of people.

Who is Happy/Eyes?
Probably one of the finest Civ II MP players.
(God... I hate saying that Eyes )

Why should we care what he thinks even with the way that he says it.?
If you ignore his insulting ways, he has provided a lot of keen insights into MP strategy and play. He does know what he is talking about. Agree or not, he knows the "MP Enviornment/Dynamics"...

As far as him calling everybody rookies and his overall condensending attitude... you just don't know him very well. He's been calling all of us that for years. We've learned to ignore the chest beating and instead, listen to the good things he has to say. While I don't always agree with him, I do care what he has say.

SO NOW... CAN WE PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

[Theseus]

Fine, Ming. Nice catch, btw, that was within minutes. And while I don;t think I went overboard, it's absolutely your call.

And you're right, if he's got valuable contributions to make, I want to hear them.

However, if you're going to protect his right to chest-beat, insult, curse, etc., you should provide fair warning when he shows up in threads where people don;t know him.

Just so I know, can you PM or email me with what specifically caused the deletion? Thanks.

[Capt Dizle]

Would be funny if it turns out that the rush don't work so good, eh?

I would only play this guy for money and then only with judges present. One "would it really be cheating" line is enough to wise me up.

This guy is like a lot of folks hustling pool or cards. It's all a front, underneath he is probably a sweetheart of a guy.

[Ming]

He can chest beat all he wants... not against the rules..
Cursing... Not allowed...
Calling people rookies... get a thicker skin...
Real Insults... While we allow mild flaming, personal insults aren't allowed.

As far as protecting him... I've restricted him many times in the past for similar behavior, so I laugh at the thought of me proctecting him

Now... Are we all clear on this matter!

So let's continue the discussion on the game... and not the people.

[SpencerH]

So a buddy of yours can incite what he wants.. merde.

[Ming]

Originally posted by SpencerH
So a buddy of yours can incite what he wants.. merde.

I will ASSUME that this is a cross post, and that you hadn't had a chance to read my post... because the next person that continues this will be toast.

And you can ask "my buddy" if I'm really his buddy. Read my above comments about my restricting him often

[Coracle]

Is it permissible to say "merde" in here?? A French scatological curse!

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Coracle
Is it permissible to say "merde" in here?? A French scatological curse!

It got past the censors, that is usually all it takes.....

[SpencerH]

Swearing is the fun part of speaking more than one language