If real life were Civ3, who'd have the highest end score?

[Be Quicker]

I terms of wining the real life civ, I still maintain that Norway won (first secretary general) just like it is in the f**** game: there is a vote, somebody wins the vote, he WINS (despite the losers such as the US complaining). If you really want one can argue to make "europe" or "germanic (includes england, anglo-saxons anyone?)" a civ and this norwegian guy the representative. At the point of the elections with the colonies and all (alomst the whole of africa and must of asia were european colonies, must have been above 25%) ... so despite the UN being build in the US, europe was eligable for a vote... and somehow sneaked a victory thereby backstabbing both of its allies in liberating large parts of itself, surprise surprise.

However talking about a score and splitting europe into germans, scandinavians, poles, english, french, spanish, romans, greeks etc.(thereby obliterating possibilities for a really astounding score) ... even then the US does not stand a chance really, for example population (together with landarea one of the most important factors in civ score): the US never ever in its history had more inhabitants than for example China. The difference has actually always been pretty huge, factor 3-6? i.e. that part of the score has been always 3 till 6 times bigger (not even counting the many many 0 score turns the US did not even exist). I am therefore very surprised about the fact that the US is currently number two in the poll. Because no Civ math I can think of can explain that.

[Be Quicker]

PS I am very much pro US in real life, and I am not from china, nor from norway or scandinavia (I am from het zeeheldenkwartier, piet hein, de ruyter etc.). But in CivIII terms, no way the US has the highest score at this point in history (maybe in 200 years from now).

[notyoueither]

Why is it that Canucks are taking over the discussion of culture and civ3 winners? Are we that obsessed with it?

Maybe we're just better than all the rest?

Yes BQ, the Norwegian won the vote. But the Americans (New World Romans) have had many puppets in the past.

Salve, eh!

[notyoueither]

Ohh Johnny.

Fact is that Alexander's emipre did not survive him. Not very viable was it? I like the Greeks (don't want to be banned) but...

Their civ got co-opted into Rome as a function of conquest.

Now if some Teuton wants to start arguing that the Roman civ got co-opted through conquest by their ancestors I'd be worried, but...

Salve

[Be Quicker]

... I think people in Norway would be pretty pissed to be compared to puppet 'banana republic' dictators ... they do consider themselves pretty autonomous and souvereign. Anyway given the war fought under the UN flag in Korea, one can indeed argue that the US effectively won the vote (i.e. by letting a close "ally" win it).

OK maybe we should discuss score rather than winning, because if the UN was the victory point, why is the world than still turning? What would actually be the current city with the highest culture be right now? London, Rome, Athens, Cairo, Bejing?

[notyoueither]

Rome. Hands down. No other city has ever, or will ever effect the history of the world to such an extent as it has.

Argue all you want. Scream into the wind while you're at it. The fact is the children of Rome have us all speaking the same language on this board right now. Not Chinese. Not Hindu. Nuff said.

Salve

[Be Quicker]

How many world wonders does Rome sport ... 2? Sistine Chapel & Leonardo's Workshop ... its colloseum, temples, and cathedral are pretty old ...

re: score, It all boils down to defining civilizations. And European Civs are a complicated business. For example the English language is written with Roman characters (and Arabic numbers), and contains a lot of Romanic (french) words, but ultimately it is a germanic language (to f**** is fokken). So watch out for the co-opting Teutons!

Anyway, if one pseudo equates romans = the christian church = renaisance = foundation for modern european nation states and their upstart colonies, then yes Roma Victor. It all depends on the equation.

On the other hand if somebody does the math for all Chinese cities, and their temples and libraries etc. what then???

[The Viceroy]

I can find good reason to vote for the following ...

China,
America (although, I do wish they would change that name, it should be US)

British (not England),
India

In the end, I decided on which country would have had the largest score at any one point in time .. and I chose the British, simply cos no other nation has rules so large an empire .. (only the Spanish came close)

but if we're looking at today, China, US & India come out as obvious leaders. (China & India due to population size) ..

It would interesting if somebody could come up with a power graff, from 4000BC til 2000AD .. Im sure that would be a source of many a comment

I would like to make the comment though .. that the US gets a sizable advantage, in that many of the modern era wonders , were hand picked by Americans !!! .... and the rest of the world, may not consider them wonders .. but thats another thread ..

[kailhun]

I'd have to go with the (current) majority here and say: China.
In landmass, population, culture and time they will probably have racked up the most points.
America (As in the USA) is just too young too have built up a lot of points.
It might be big and have a large cultural influence right now, but who knows how long (or shortly) that will last? In a 100 years they might be destroyed and almost forgotten (What's that island near Africa that if it falls into the sea will cause a tidal wave that drowns the USA?) and the points stop building then.
And as to the Spaceship to AC. You only get those points when you actually do it. The fact that you could possibly maybe build the ship doesn't get you any points.

Robert

[kailhun]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Now if some Teuton wants to start arguing that the Roman civ got co-opted through conquest by their ancestors I'd be worried, but...

Salve

Well, the-area-currently-known-as-Germany was known as the Holy Roman Empire for a long while and considered themselves the succesors to the Roman Empire. So for Germany the count goes: Greece's+Rome's+Germany's points. Given that age it might be a respectable score.

Robert

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Only one possible answer to this poll:

HOMO SAPIENS is the biggest civ-builder of them all!

Secondly, no doubts either, the Belgians, who, according to Julius Caesar, were the bravest of them all ...

Kidding of course.

AJ

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by kailhun


Well, the-area-currently-known-as-Germany was known as the Holy Roman Empire for a long while and considered themselves the succesors to the Roman Empire. So for Germany the count goes: Greece's+Rome's+Germany's points. Given that age it might be a respectable score.

Robert

Wow, wow, wow Kailhun, what are you saying?

The Holy Roman Empire rase much later in time. Actually, the unification of Germany was around/between 1860-1871, conducted by Bismarck. And the Germans never were the successors of the Romans !!!!

As a matter of fact, German tribes used to flourish in Central- and Northern-Europe and only succeeded in expansion after the attacks of the crazy and violent Huns. Scared as chickens the German tribes moved into Roman territory. The Franks, a German tribe, pardonnez-moi pour cette verité réelle mes chers amies francophones, claimed the territory of the actual France and their leader, Clovis, was the first 'barbaric' leader to be christianized.
After the Romans a successor of the Franks, Charles the Great, founded a large united European empire, that in 843 was divided under his three son - sons (ancestors of the second generation) by the pact of Verdun. The Franks by then didn't speak German-like languages anymore.

If we call the Franks Germans, we should name the Germans Celts. The Germans had no decent culture before running from the Huns and afterwards developped very, very slowly ...

AJ

[Be Quicker]

AJ, PS voor zover ik weet is germaans in 't engels germanic, en duits in 't engels german. Of bedoel je echt "duits". (sorry I do not want to be pedantic, just want to clarify potential misunderstanding)

[Harovan]

Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR
The Holy Roman Empire rase much later in time. Actually, the unification of Germany was around/between 1860-1871, conducted by Bismarck. And the Germans never were the successors of the Romans !!!!

This was basically, why he wrote "the-area-currently-known-as-Germany" and not "Germany". I'm far from claiming the points of Greece and Rome for Germany, as was stated before (that would be ridiculous), and no, I'm not the one who voted for Germany . But as a matter of fact this "area" happened to be called the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" a thousand years after the end of the real Roman empire.

By the way, the place where I live (northern Bavaria) is still called Franken and the people here call themselves Franks.

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Be Quicker
AJ, PS voor zover ik weet is germaans in 't engels germanic, en duits in 't engels german. Of bedoel je echt "duits". (sorry I do not want to be pedantic, just want to clarify potential misunderstanding)

Bedankt voor de nuancering, ik bedoelde wel degelijk 'germanic'.

For all of my posts I hereby excuse for the many mistakes I make whilst trying to express myself in another language than my own ...
then again, if certain might feel offended (of course nobody does),

try our language ...

Dutch, or preferrably, Flemish ...

(even goede vrienden 'Be Quikcer')