Patch now available

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by ACooper


Do you want their home phone numbers? Mayby they could fly you in for a personal conference.


Get real. They make a product. You buy a product. If you like you buy again. If you don't like you don't buy again. Simple business model. Nobody has to kiss anybody else's A__. Simple.

No, sorry I don't agree. The customer will always complain in almost every case, if they aren't happy with their purchase, go walking through a mall sometime and observe, you'll see this behaviour to be common between a business and it's consumers. Either way, Firaxis has already made it clear that one of thier objectives was to keep a strong and healthy mod community in the loop.

http://civ3.com/devupdate.cfm

And until they change that policy, they're acceptable to all forms of feedback. Simple. So without the sarcasm, I think you know what I mean.

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by ACooper



It's harassment whether it's a person or a business.

Yeah you're right, every unhappy customer who complains about their product or purchase is classified as a stalker. If I treated customers that way (as I said before) I'd be fired. It's classified as "REFUND", "REPLACE" or "LAWSUIT" not harassment.

But in most cases a customer is treated with respect, and usually their wishes are granted so it doesn't get that far. Common sense.

Charles.

[Ming]

Sigh...
I think it's about time to get back on topic.

I'm sure there are many other threads where you can argue customer service... Lord knows I've seen this discussion in many other threads

[bigvic]

What about the patch?

I've been out of the Apolyton thing a while, then ran across the info on the new patch. The first was a disaster in my opinion. Uninstalled it and played my own mod w/ the origional version. Lost some games. My question is..is it worth it, the patch, or should I wait til some sort of cd comes out? I've got 16 monster 16 civ games going on w/ each of the civs and don't want to lose any (again). Open to all opinions.

PS: Off the subject, but, did the original patch give human players a way to end right of passage agreements after 20 turns? I don't remember. Am I just being daft? Is there a way to do this in the new patch?

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Ming
Sigh...
I think it's about time to get back on topic.

I'm sure there are many other threads where you can argue customer service... Lord knows I've seen this discussion in many other threads

Agreed. The patch supposedly contained an addition to the 'editor' is any of that true, what exactly did they add? I've downloaded it, but haven't installed it yet in fear that it might corrupt something.

[CharlesUFarley]

In other words is it safe to install without 100% playtesting?

Charles

[number6]

There seems to be a lot of knowledgable posters in this thread so I thought I would ask a question that I have been wanting an answer to. Will the unit imbalance between modern and ancient units ever be addressed in a future patch? Does Firaxis consider this as a problem? I have not played Civ 3 since November because my tanks were getting killed consistently by knights. I have read the list of changes for both patches and I do not see this as an issue that has been resolved. I know I am not the only one who finds this part of the game "unfun". I have read in other threads on this board that the solution is to build 3 to 1 the number of units as your oponents. I don't think much of that solution. I want there to be a benefit of me having more advanced units than my enemies. I am starting to think this issue will never be resolved. How can they justify the combat system as it currently stands? It's like playing a game of Risk on a random map. Civ 3 is still no where near the Civ standard of excellence and probably never will be. The only noteworthy addition I see in the current patch is stacked movement. Oh well I guess I have to wait another 2 - 3 months for an update. I fear by then that I will have stopped caring about this game.

[notyoueither]

Re: What about the patch?

Originally posted by bigvic
PS: Off the subject, but, did the original patch give human players a way to end right of passage agreements after 20 turns? I don't remember. Am I just being daft? Is there a way to do this in the new patch?

Always able to do this. In diplomacy, call up the leader you have MPP with. At the bottom of the dialogue there are two options *New* and *Current* (??). Click current. You'll see Peace and whatever other agreements and trades you have going. You'll see MPP. Click MPP. It will move up into the main box. Switch back to New. Ditch it. No more MPP. I'm doing this from memory, but it should all work.

Salve

[lockstep]

Originally posted by number6
I have not played Civ 3 since November because my tanks were getting killed consistently by knights. I have read the list of changes for both patches and I do not see this as an issue that has been resolved.

Try doubling the number of hitpoints for every experience level - you can do this with the editor. Battles will last longer than before (as long as you don't turn off animations), and there are minor graphical glitches when a unit moves, but you won't get weird combat results anymore.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by number6
I have not played Civ 3 since November because my tanks were getting killed consistently by knights. I have read the list of changes for both patches and I do not see this as an issue that has been resolved. I know I am not the only one who finds this part of the game "unfun". I have read in other threads on this board that the solution is to build 3 to 1 the number of units as your oponents. I don't think much of that solution. I want there to be a benefit of me having more advanced units than my enemies. I am starting to think this issue will never be resolved. How can they justify the combat system as it currently stands? It's like playing a game of Risk on a random map.

I'm sure you do not want a lecture on how to use the Civ3 combat system to your advantage so I will not give you one. I will say that there are ways to minimize unfortunate results. In fact I usually lose very few units period and almost none to out-dated units. I fight a lot.

The only news from 1.17 is not to your liking, I fear. The odds of losing a fast unit to a foot slogger have been increased, thus the frequency of losing a Tank to older units, such as *gasp* Spearmen will have increased. Although, I have to say that it has never happened to me, yet.

Salve

[number6]

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I will give the editor a try. My point is I think it should be fun out of the box and there is no way anyone can argue to me that, all things being equal, that a tank can ever get beat by a spearmen. That is not fun, it is frustrating. I wish the AI upgraded it's units more. I don't mind losing to equally adavanced units. Again, thanks for the response about how to work around this issue.

[woody]

Originally posted by number6
Thanks for the advice. Maybe I will give the editor a try. My point is I think it should be fun out of the box and there is no way anyone can argue to me that, all things being equal, that a tank can ever get beat by a spearmen. That is not fun, it is frustrating. I wish the AI upgraded it's units more. I don't mind losing to equally adavanced units. Again, thanks for the response about how to work around this issue.

Did you just not know that the game came with an editor? I really don't get why people whine about the combat values, when they're trivial to change. Of course, you'll unbalance the game, but if you don't want to play it balanced that's your choice.

You also realize that the units are only representations of numbers that are used to indicate relative strength, don't you? A spearman has a defense of 2, while a tank has an attack of 16. It just comes down to numbers.

[number6]

Yes, I was aware that it existed. I never had to use the editor in Civ 2 to enjoy the game. I am currently playing a game with the new patch. I really want to like this game as much as the earlier versions. I am just dissapointed in the shortcuts that Firaxis took to get the game out by the deadline that Infogrames set.

You also realize that the units are only representations of numbers that are used to indicate relative strength, don't you? A spearman has a defense of 2, while a tank has an attack of 16. It just comes down to numbers.

Yes, I am well aware of that as well. In my first post to this thread I alluded to this fact when I said that the Civ 3 combat system had been reduced to a game of Risk on a random map. I wish the combat system was not so simplistic that's all.

I really don't get why people whine about the combat values, when they're trivial to change. Of course, you'll unbalance the game, but if you don't want to play it balanced that's your choice.

I don't think that the game would be unbalanced if you changed the values to make a tank much more powerful than a spearmen. I am hesitant to use the editor for many reasons:

1) it is still an incomplete product.
2) changes to default values has been known to cause graphics glitches.
3) when patches come out your edited games are incompatable.
4) I think the combat system as it stands is flawed and don't feel I should carry the burden of fixing the problem in a kludgy manner.

Maybe other gamers like myself see the same list above as reasons to not use the editor to "unbalance" the game. Isn't a battle between a tank and a spearmen supposed to be unbalanced?

[bigvic]

Re: Re: What about the patch?

Originally posted by notyoueither


Always able to do this. In diplomacy, call up the leader you have MPP with. At the bottom of the dialogue there are two options *New* and *Current* (??). Click current. You'll see Peace and whatever other agreements and trades you have going. You'll see MPP. Click MPP. It will move up into the main box. Switch back to New. Ditch it. No more MPP. I'm doing this from memory, but it should all work.

Salve

Wow, how did I miss that? Thanks.

[woody]

Originally posted by number6
I am hesitant to use the editor for many reasons:

1) it is still an incomplete product.

Fair enough. The editor isn't much use for scenario making, but it's perfectly fine for modifying unit values for offense/defense. Did you even look? Really, you shouldn't complain until you at least give something a try.

2) changes to default values has been known to cause graphics glitches.

To unit combat values??? Just where do you get your information?

3) when patches come out your edited games are incompatable.

Patches only come out every couple of months. It's not like you have to enter the changes every time you start up the game.

4) I think the combat system as it stands is flawed and don't feel I should carry the burden of fixing the problem in a kludgy manner.

Ah, okay. So, you'd like to see the game broken for everyone else, just so you don't have to spend 5 minutes to make some modifications. Gotcha... you're simply whining.

Maybe other gamers like myself see the same list above as reasons to not use the editor to "unbalance" the game. Isn't a battle between a tank and a spearmen supposed to be unbalanced?

It is. The tank has a 99.5% chance of beating the spearman. (Fortified, open ground.) Is that not enough for you? I'm rather surprised that the 0.5% chance ruins your strategy. Although, perhaps I shouldn't be.