Patch now available

[BFletch]

Re: Comments on patch 1.17f

Originally posted by cgaydos
I see the patch has been removed from the website. Probably due to several bugs. ...

They have indeed removed the patch from the infogrames server. I downloaded it, but haven't installed. The removal worries me a bit that installing it will be a problem.

What's the consensus - better before or after?

Thanks!

[Ninot]

Ok, just to make this clear, I LOVE CIV 3... but i got a bug to report, or back-up, whichever.

After doing some stacked movement with about 30 tanks, my game froze. I reloaded, repeated, it froze again.

However, it's not to be taken for granted. I have stacked without crashing... but its like a 50/50 thing.

No real biggie for me, i'll just go back to moving 30 tanks sepperately (i think stacking could have been done better... like "How many units would you like to stack comrade?" message)But it would be nice for a fix or upgrade

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Maybe they heard. Maybe they didn't. If only there were some way we could have known. But alas, how?

would you read a 200-post thread of personal attacks, criticism, flames and huge egos just to get those 3-4 posts of actual usefull feedback? would even try? i know i couldnt

[MonsterMan]

Maybe you're happy MarkG, but I can't start a game or work with the editor since I installed the new patch, and I'm not that happy about it.

[player1]

Originally posted by MonsterMan
Maybe you're happy MarkG, but I can't start a game or work with the editor since I installed the new patch, and I'm not that happy about it.

You should download correct editor (from apolyton or civfanatics).
Correct version is 1.15 BIC 2.10

[Libertarian]

Originally posted by MarkG
would you read a 200-post thread of personal attacks, criticism, flames and huge egos just to get those 3-4 posts of actual usefull feedback? would even try? i know i couldnt

Well, you've changed the subject, but let's deal with the point you've raised. I understand that you're a very emotional person, you shoot from the hip, and you certainly are in a position where you have a vested interest in maintaining good relations with Firaxis. It is understandable that you might make certain minor ethical compromises in order to safeguard those relations.

But to categorically dismiss every appeal to reason as a personal attack, a flame, or an egotistical diatribe is beyond the pall. You're not — at least not in every case — dealing with idiots here. We are not the papier mache dolls that you've constructed in your head. We, too, are creatures who have feelings of our own. If, on the one hand, you defend the feelings of those who serve one vested interest, you at least ought to make a pretense at defending the feelings of those who serve another.

It might not have occured to you that those of us who bring criticism to the table are as useful to your forum as those who bring nothing but praise. I'm hoping that somewhere deep within you is the capacity to receive what I'm saying with the right frame of mind, namely, that it is in your own self-interest to mitigate the relations between the fans and Firaxis. What you are doing instead is further alienating us by virtue of your power as owner of Apolyton.

No one would defend your right more than I to run the site however you see fit. It is your property, and therefore all rights with respect to it accrue to you. But while you seem to have a good grasp of human nature when it comes to Firaxis employees, you seem to have very little when it comes to Apolyton members. A mediator stands between two parties as a conciliator and facilitator, not as a sympathiser or redactor on behalf of either party.

What I'm trying to say is that if you would search the hearts of critics with the same eye that you search the hearts of Firaxians, you would find the same kinds of human beings, sharing the common goal of making the game a better game. You need to understand that you might actually be contributing to the escalation of criticism to flame by virtue of the fact that you are wedging yourself into the fray as a powerful defender of the status quo.

It is human nature to respond to disrespect and dismissal with renewed and fortified volition. You stand in the unique position of having a golden opportunity to foster a community wherein dialog is insightful rather than inciteful. The level of intelligence and potential discourse at Apolyton is higher than at any other fansite. It will be your own downfall if you destroy that by allowing yourself to fall into thoughtless emotional hemorrhaging.

There is a reason that moderating is rooted in the word moderate. You do not restore balance by taking one side against the other; you restore balance by recognizing the merits in both sides. This is because both sides are of equal weight intrinsically. The best way that you can discourage flames toward Firaxis is not to trivialize the criticisms that led to the flames. That is merely tantamount to blowing on the fire. The best way to discourage flames toward Firaxis is to encourage Firaxis to respond — before the complaint has escalated.

If it is too difficult for Firaxis to do, then that is your fault because it means that you have not provided the context to make it easy for them. Take it upon yourself to act as advocate for both your community and your benefactors. Act as facilitator. Stop dismissing perfectly intelligent people as babblers and morons. Stop allowing supporters to get away with calling people "commie c*cksuckers". Stop behaving like the pointman for Firaxis. And start trying to help both the community and Firaxis to get answers.

I have no idea how you might interpret this post; emotional people can be hard to predict. I can hope only that I've caught you in a moment of conciliation and forgiveness, and that you will interpret this as a genuine gesture of goodwill and offer of what I believe to be good advice that might edify you. There's an awful lot of potential here at Apolyton. Whether that will be squandered or nurtured is entirely up to you.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Libertarian
But to categorically dismiss every appeal to reason as a personal attack, a flame, or an egotistical diatribe is beyond the pall.

please explain me were i did that.

[Libertarian]

I'll try.

When you write "would you read a 200-post thread of personal attacks, criticism, flames and huge egos just to get those 3-4 posts of actual usefull feedback?", the implication is that 99.985% of posts were personal attacks, flames, or egotistical diatribes. Perhaps I should have said "nearly every" and not "every".

Unfortunately, if that's all you took from my post, I apologize for having wasted your time.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Libertarian
the implication is that 99.985% of posts

yes, but of which posts? of which threads? did you see me saying that all threads in the civ3 forums were like that?

btw, 3-4 out of 200 means 98-98.5%

Unfortunately, if that's all you took from my post, I apologize for having wasted your time.

no but it seems that you based your whole analysis plus what seemed like a feeling of being personally insulted on that comment

[Alex]

Oh, another flame war...

At least let me get my popcorn...

[Libertarian]

no but it seems that you based your whole analysis plus what seemed like a feeling of being personally insulted on that comment

I suppose it would, wouldn't it? Few of us are capable of stepping outside our little box. All the best to you, Mark.

[woody]

Originally posted by MarkG
please explain me were i did that.

Mark, don't bother responding to Lib. He's an egotistical jerk, who needs to have his deflated self-esteem pumped up by people responding to his inane personal attacks. You're only encouraging him. Everyone knows he's a hypocrit. If people would just ignore him, maybe he'll go away.

[Libertarian]

Something tells me that you'll get away with that violation of board policy (e.g., posting insults). Either it might be rationalized that you did not mean it toward me personally, since Lib might have refered to a poster called "Liberal", or else it might be said that "hypocrit" is not a word at all, and "jerk" is a soda fountain worker.

[Libertarian]

Incidentally, since "Sh*ggy" had to change his username because it was a bad word somewhere, you might ask someone what a woody is in America.

[notyoueither]

woody: Your nutz. Lib is one of the more insightful people around here. Mark, and others, listen to him because he says things worth listening to. Even me. Yes, he has a hightened sense of self. So do a lot of people. Are you perfect?

Mark: Lib said some valuable things in his *discourse on relations.* I agree with some of them. Moderation requires balance. I hesitate a great deal in saying the following, however, your toleration of pure trollers may be leading you to more of a bunker defensivness than would be required if they were not given so much leash. Also, I am sure that you do what you can to represent us, the civvers, to the developers. No one is in a position like yours, so nobody could do it better.

Lib: Give Mark some time and some slack. You are right. Mark has some very real and strong felt feelings on the line.

Email might be a good idea.

Salve