Espionage Options Extremely Disappointing!!

[Ozymandous]

I just hope that you can add more "counter-intelligence" aka spies to your "network" like in MOO to help cut down the chances of people stealing your tech.

Nothing worse than your allies stealing tech or some idiotic Civ still using knights to get lucky and steal tanks! Argh, they should have seperated the tech's that allow you to see resources from those that build units (if they haven't already!).

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
A civ advance such as Nuclear Fission is not a tech per se, but a body of accumulated knowledge with the scientists who understand this knowledge.

Well, yes, but you can buy the scientists, can´t you?

This is, among other things, what 'espionage' in civgames represents.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune

Well, yes, but you can buy the scientists, can´t you?

Yeah, true. But in order to put the "behind the scenes" infrastrucutre in place, you should atleast have to pay cash to steal advances.... personally I think the idea of infiltrating another civilisation, which then boosts your own research (dramatically!) is much more realistic, altough simple trading is attractive from a... simplicity... point of view.

[Grumbold]

I'll second the puzzlement at the city investigation only showing improvements, not denfesive units too. Seeing the improvements isn't much use unless you can then try to destroy them (or bribe someone to open the city gates etc).

Still, if counterintelligence works better than it ever has in any unit based spy game all the rest will be worth it.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Guys,
OK, I'm now reasonably happy with the list of spy missions, but I still feel like there is something MISSING?! Specifically, poison water supply and Plant Nuclear device!!! I know these missions should be VERY hard to accomplish, and that they are used only rarely, but I still want them as options.
In addition, I hope that the Sabotage mission is not just limited to current projects, but can be used to destroy existing ones! I know this can be done with bombardment units in war, but what if I just want a cool stand-off situation like the one which existed between U.S.A/U.S.S.R? Then I want a way of hurting a civ without an all-out declaration of war (but a good chance of a SERIOUS diplomatic incident-assuming they catch you!!!). It's possible that this is already the case (I mean, if they could forget 2 WHOLE missions, then it's possible that they made an error concerning sabotage!)
As for the old "Incite Revolt" mission, I have a feeling that, when using Propoganda to convert a city to your civ, then stage one will involve inciting a revolt against the parent Civ (at least, that's how I read it!) Of course, if you don't want the city, then you could just cease the mission once it starts revolting!!!
So what do the Firaxians have to say? Are ALL the old espionage missions still in, or must we do without the wanton carnage caused by planting nuclear devices?!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Comrade Tribune]

Furthermore, it should also be possible for player A to attack player B and frame player C, perhaps resulting in a war between B and C. A war between two of your enemies would be the ultimate secret service achievement.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Comrade, I like the way you think!!!
I do that a lot in "Birth of the Federation", especially if I'm playing the Cardassians! "BotF", of course, has the same abstracted espionage system as CivIII is going to have, so Idon't see why it can't be done!!

The_Aussie_Lurker

[Inverse Icarus]

wasn't that in SMAC (it's been a while), couldnt you frame other leaders?

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by UberKruX
wasn't that in SMAC (it's been a while), couldnt you frame other leaders?

Yes it was. And it was more likely to fail if you chose to attempt it.

[Lorizael]

Oh that would be awesome if you could blame it on someone else! Then I might actually use espionage!

I'm hoping with the new espionage and nukes, we will really be able to have a Cold War type situation.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Lorizael

I'm hoping with the new espionage and nukes, we will really be able to have a Cold War type situation.

True, but it might end up in a mess like in the WW79
scenario of CiC. BTW, we haven't heard so
much of the missile units (at least not nukes) in Civ III.

[markusf]

Spies where totally rediculus in civ2.. In a multiplayer game a few weeks ago i was losing to a player who had an empire 4 times my size. I built 4 spies and destroyed him in 5 turns. Go and send in 40 spies and destroy every single improvement in a size 30 city then move onto the next... you criple the whole civ. Then to be really nasty you poison the water supply of cities fielding a lot of units and they all disband.

[Lonestar]

I too, am disappointed in the options.

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

**Dancing on air** YESSS!!! They got rid of that idiotic "Steal Technology" option!!! One less method for the AI to rip off your hard-earned research!!! **Dancing on air**

CYBERAmazon

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by CYBERAmazon
Everyone:

**Dancing on air** YESSS!!! They got rid of that idiotic "Steal Technology" option!!! One less method for the AI to rip off your hard-earned research!!! **Dancing on air**

CYBERAmazon

Crap. I just saw the "omitted" missions, one of which is the damnable "Steal Technology" option.

Feeling like I am in the gutters now ...

CYBERAmazon

(P.S. Nah! I'll dance anyway!!! **Dancing on air**)