c189# HAVE A LITTLE FAITH

[Skanky Burns]

If Firaxis learn from this and instead give us information that affects us as their fans (like MP not being in), then i will be happy. Rather than torturing their fans for weeks, and then dropping the bad new on us, they could have handled this issue much better by letting us know as soon as they discovered MP couldnt be completed in time / or their marketing department decided to charge us for MP seperately.

Its not the whole Firaxis PR that i have a problem with - Dan has done an excellent job here and on the Civ 3 site, giving us information and stopping the rumours he was allowed to stop. to Dan.

The simplistic views that
"Firaxis are great, they can do no wrong" or
"Firaxis suck, they can do nothing right" are both useless in helping us achieve our common goal: to make Civ 3 the best game we can. Only by posting constructive criticism can Firaxis mend the things they havent done well and learn what we feel they have done well.

[jdd2007]

i think, as shown by the mp poll, that instead of being a large number of people a tad bit angry about mp, there is a much smaller number that SEEM absolutly enraged on the subject...

sorry if someone has made this point before...

[Stuie]

Nice piece, Orange.

But you forgot to complain that the name of the game isn't "Yin26's Civilization 3".

[yin26]

Never said it was. But troll on if it sports you some wood.

[Father Beast]

Unreal. This column has turned into the biggest flame war since Yin's last inflammatory thread!

Nice to see you writing a column, orange. I remember you on these forums as orangesfwr, and had some REALLY good ideas on civ3.

But I have to disagree with you on soe points.

Owe us? technically, they don't owe us anything. they can make a game, or not. They can tell us about it, or not. They can tell us lies, or not. They really don't owe us anything. But on THE SAME TOKEN, we have the right to b**ch. They have the right to screw the game over, and we have the right to complain about it. They have the right to tell us nothing about it, and we have the right to clamor for more, ever more, info. They can send it out incomplete, and we can refuse to buy it and urge all our friends to do likewise.

To give them the rights and deny ours is absurd.

Next...

To defame a man, a myth, a company, a legend. Truth is, Civ3 is not yet a legend. Civ and Civ2 are, which is why we are so concerned about the ruining of the sequel. of course we don't own the game, so we don't have any real control over how it's made. we just love the previous versions so much it would break our hearts to see it ruined.

as for the man and the company, maybe you're right. after all, they produced Alpha Centauri, an endlessly fascinating game which was well balanced, came with a fine demo, and had multiplayer working out of the box. Truly, as you say, would should quit our complaining and accept that of course they will do the same with Civ3. Same company, same results. Just trust in big brother sid

[orange]

You people are missing the point...

Criticism is OK. I do it myself! But I'd like to believe I do it in a tasteful, constructive way

What's I've seen from the majority of you is lack of respect, Firaxis bashing, jumping to conclusions, it's sick! If there was a Civ 4 or other Firaxis game, I wouldn't blame them if they found a new site, with respectful posters, to give information to.

The ones that are constantly bashing Firaxis and Sid, you're all giving Apolyton a bad name

[Rommel393]

I totally agree with the article.

[orange]

Originally posted by Father Beast
Unreal. This column has turned into the biggest flame war since Yin's last inflammatory thread!

Nice to see you writing a column, orange. I remember you on these forums as orangesfwr, and had some REALLY good ideas on civ3.

But I have to disagree with you on soe points.

Thanks

Owe us? technically, they don't owe us anything. they can make a game, or not. They can tell us about it, or not. They can tell us lies, or not. They really don't owe us anything. But on THE SAME TOKEN, we have the right to b**ch. They have the right to screw the game over, and we have the right to complain about it. They have the right to tell us nothing about it, and we have the right to clamor for more, ever more, info. They can send it out incomplete, and we can refuse to buy it and urge all our friends to do likewise.

To give them the rights and deny ours is absurd.

Yup, but notice Firaxis has been respectful to us. We can criticize all we want. Why not do it tastefully and respectfully.

To defame a man, a myth, a company, a legend. Truth is, Civ3 is not yet a legend. Civ and Civ2 are, which is why we are so concerned about the ruining of the sequel. of course we don't own the game, so we don't have any real control over how it's made. we just love the previous versions so much it would break our hearts to see it ruined.

I mean the Civ series and the people behind it. If it wasn't legendary, there wouldn't be 10,000 apolyton posters.

as for the man and the company, maybe you're right. after all, they produced Alpha Centauri, an endlessly fascinating game which was well balanced, came with a fine demo, and had multiplayer working out of the box. Truly, as you say, would should quit our complaining and accept that of course they will do the same with Civ3. Same company, same results. Just trust in big brother sid

A better title would have been "Have a little respect". That was my main point, though I do feel that if we give ideas and constructively criticize the way we have done in the past, everything WILL turn out ok

[yin26]

What's I've seen from the majority of you is lack of respect, Firaxis bashing, jumping to conclusions, it's sick!

"Lack of respect."

Well, for the PR. Yes. I will show it no respect, nor should I.

"Firaxis bashing."

Well, for the PR. Yes. I will continue to bash it when it fails horribly.

"Jumping to conclusions."

Well...thanks to the PR.

"It's sick!"

Actually, how did it get this way? You claim to remember how this board 'used to be.' Any clues why it changed lately?

[Haphazard]

Woah! This has touched a few nerves.

Not too much to add, except to praise Orange on a passionate, well argued column. Oh and a question: Are there any games companies that are as responsive as Firaxis? Sure there are some points that needed better explanation like MP, but I can't think of a better one. A well done to all!

[orange]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by yin26

Well, for the PR. Yes. I will show it no respect, nor should I.

Aren't we high and mighty

Well, for the PR. Yes. I will continue to bash it when it fails horribly.

and you are the judge and jury of whether Firaxis is doing a good job or not? I for one am impressed with the information they've given us and the website.

Well...thanks to the PR.

No, thanks to the lack of PR. And that's no excuse. Assumptions are wrong. Back them up with proof, and they're no longer assumptions.

Actually, how did it get this way? You claim to remember how this board 'used to be.' Any clues why it changed lately?

People who have no respect...

...like you!

[eohian]

QUOTE]You paid for 4 previous products, and 4 products you have recieved. [/QUOTE]

What I meant was companies owe their customers if they want them to continue to be their customers. That's basic marketing 101. Of course Firaxis doesn't owe me anything personnally but if they expect me to be their customer then they do owe it to me, other customers and themselves to have an effective marketing campaign and a good game. The first has been called into question and the second we have to wait and see.

It has been my experience when very little or pathetic stuff comes out pregame the game sucks, otherwise why would Firaxis put out their worst stuff to entice us?

SID: New tact, take all the stuff we hate about the game and give it to the customers, that'll really make them salivate!

[orange]

Originally posted by eohian
What I meant was companies owe their customers if they want them to continue to be their customers. That's basic marketing 101. Of course Firaxis doesn't owe me anything personnally but if they expect me to be their customer then they do owe it to me, other customers and themselves to have an effective marketing campaign and a good game. The first has been called into question and the second we have to wait and see.

So use the power of the dollar and don't buy the game. It's that simple.

It has been my experience when very little or pathetic stuff comes out pregame the game sucks, otherwise why would Firaxis put out their worst stuff to entice us?

Assumptions, and nothing more.

SID: New tact, take all the stuff we hate about the game and give it to the customers, that'll really make them salivate!

if all's we've seen so far is the bad stuff, then the good stuff is damn likely to make me ***

[Fidel]

the article is spot on !

[Cyclotron]

Orange, this is by far the worst column I have ever read. How old is it to mock people who are just expressing their point of view? I am so sick of the numerous posts saying "stop arguing" and "how dare you be so pessimistic." Just when I thought people were getting the message that it doesn't matter what people like you think, here comes this column that is more full of uppity complaining than most of the "anti-civ" posts that I have seen. People can complain whenever they want to, and you are just a hypocritical whiner if you flame them just because they have a complaint. Your column is a ****ing joke, and serves no purpose other than to start this flaming war that was probably the aim of your column anyway. Congrats, orange, you've lost all of my respect. Go b*tch somewhere else.