No corruption in communism don't let me laugh

[Juggernaut]

I´m not right-wing. I´m left-liberal. It´s funny to see how easily Marxists get offended by nothing.

[SerapisIV]

Thank god Firaxis is a red-blooded American developer. We don't have to deal with any of the socialist crap you Euros want



Okay, I don't really know what I was talking about there, I just like playing the obnoxious American now and then by pissing off those who aren't

[Juggernaut]

i wonder if Civ had been fun if it had been made in Russia? probably hard to read, that´s for sure...

[Marquis de Sodaq]

What I find most interesting about this entire discussion is the brash presumption of many americans that the american way is the best way. Also their short, selective memories on topics such as human rights and environment. Having lived on both sides of the atlantic, I'd likely choose the european government/economic system over the american.

Yes, the european gains less personally in a socialized economic system, but the whole is better off. Before greed became king, it was generally understood that a society could be judged by how well off its poorest or least fortunate were living. This is one of the ideas that propelled Roosevelt's new deal thru the political arena of the day. Because of the depression, many americans were not at all well off, most people were at least affected. Times change, but policies are slow to react. You might disagree with the social safety nets that are in place in the US, but without them, this country would find itself in a very different reality. What that would be is just speculation, it's been long enough that the imagination could concoct all sorts of scenarios. Backtracking is never a way out. Society is different, what worked 80 years ago won't have the same result today.

When you stand up to proudly defend the american system, I challenge you to find a black or an indian to agree with you. (no, this is not an invitation for anecdotes about some black guy who succeeded... it's just a generalization) Generally, those who were beaten down and denied opportunity are the ones left holding the blame for being in a poor state. Seeing the truth of why most poor are poor (again, no anecdotes, please) is not some left-wing hooey, it is simply accepting the reality of american history. As in any nation's history, there are many ugly tales to tell. Europeans just as easily tend to overlook that many of them have gained immensely by sucking dry their former colonies. When wronged, people tend to remember forever; Those who wrong others quickly forget.

To say the capitalist ecomony has been eco-friendly is foolish, it merely outshines the horrific aftermath of the communist system. There is plenty of room for improvement. To say it is better in human rights requires some very selective memory and broad oversights.

A fine (probably a mis-)quote (of course, I forget whose) that seems appropriate for my heap of verbiage:

The man who crows loudest about the free market and competition is also the man who inherited his father's business.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Okay, I ought to start my long posts with

[boxing mode]

[/boxing mode]

I always get in trouble for trying to squeeze a five page essay into a few paragraphs - not enough detail, trying to cover too much ground...

ANYWAY, altho it might not mirror the real governments, I think the Civ communism was a fine middle ground between the representative governments and monarchy. More production/military oriented, but with a weaker economy. The corruption level could easily be upped in rules.txt, for those who didn't like all those honest bureaucrats.

[Juggernaut]

To say the capitalist ecomony has been eco-friendly is foolish

if a company acts questionable against the environment, you simply don´t buy their products. and the company dies. simple as that. although, the government should have the ability to interact in extreme cases.

The man who crows loudest about the free market and competition is also the man who inherited his father's business.

socialism = enviousness?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Really...any more so than a Texan oilfield or a strip-mining operation? Remember that the Thames has actually caught on fire on two separate occasions...

Oooooh yes! Much worse! You should see some of the devestation...

And what just happened on the 3rd page of this thread?! To the Off-Topic, all of ya!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[And what just happened on the 3rd page of this thread?! To the Off-Topic, all of ya!

Agreed.

[JMarks]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq


When you stand up to proudly defend the american system, I challenge you to find a black or an indian to agree with you. (no, this is not an invitation for anecdotes about some black guy who succeeded... it's just a generalization) Generally, those who were beaten down and denied opportunity are the ones left holding the blame for being in a poor state. Seeing the truth of why most poor are poor (again, no anecdotes, please) is not some left-wing hooey, it is simply accepting the reality of american history. As in any nation's history, there are many ugly tales to tell. Europeans just as easily tend to overlook that many of them have gained immensely by sucking dry their former colonies. When wronged, people tend to remember forever; Those who wrong others quickly forget.

A fine (probably a mis-)quote (of course, I forget whose) that seems appropriate for my heap of verbiage:

The man who crows loudest about the free market and competition is also the man who inherited his father's business.

To say no one has in the past been denied a chance would be silly, of course. The problem was not the system, but sinful man boasting he, and others of like skin color, are supreme and all else should just go to the garbage heap. I know (not personally, but I have heard him many'a time) a black man who loves this country and is probably even more radically right-wing than I. To say that blacks and indians don't have the opportunity now is just ignorance.

Oh, I'll crow louder than those people who inherit stuff. Why? Because I can make my own dreams, make my own money, and I can give it to whomever I will. (Death to the death tax!)
Immigrants came here so their sons and daughters could have it better than they did. Don't let that dream die.

That depends on pretty much on the situation. if one is young and breaks his neck, becomes permanent paralyzed, got no social assurance, got no friends, no family (extreme case ) etc. is does this guy deserve less money and to have trust on non-profit orgs for the rest of his life? don´t think so, no...

Unca Funk, that is an extreme, and there are usually exceptions to any rule. Still, I think we should adopt an ancient Hebrew practice of leaving such people in the care of the wealthy. Bill Gates would get a good share of them.

To all, freedom can be scarry for the underdog (like me). But I wouldn't trade it for all the security of a socialist government. You can make your own minds up.

Yes, all this is off topic, but it is so fun! Communism in Civ2 is good where it is. Hope it stays, I still'll never use it, except in scenarios

Ioanes

PS, Fourth of July tommorrow! God bless America!

[bertje121]

damn with all the lefties!

[ancient]

conservatives suck, they dont help anyone ever, look at bush, so far hes like one of the worst presidents weve had..

[bertje121]

Bush rules!

But I prefer Right-Wing Liberals

[JMarks]

Bush rocks on most issues, though I'm still upset about the compromise on education. Bush is much better than Clinton. He realises the American government is not supposed to be a welfare state. Besides, you don't know how many people he has helped! Just because he isn't using the government to do so doesn't mean he hasn't helped out. All you 'compasionate' liberals can just put your money where your mouth is and help those poor dejected people yourself.

Ever hear of Davy Crocket? He was a senator before he went out to the Alamo. He voted against relief for some fire victims. Why? Because it was not the role of government. He helped those people himself, and chalanged the senators to do the same, hey, they were wealthy enough as it is! Hey, those liberal aristrocrates, the Kennedy's are still rich. Just because someone doesn't want the government help people, doesn't mean they want those people to die.

By the way, HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!


God bless America! God save the state!

[AzNtoccata]

Oh right, no corruption in "democracy", don't make ME laugh.

[Juggernaut]

God bless America! God save the state!