No corruption in communism don't let me laugh

[Juggernaut]

i think everyone´s missing a great point here. communism should generate MORE money than any other gov in civ.

after all, you are the STATE, and get your money throught the taxes! i mean, in a market economy, PRIVATE investors and corps builds hospitals, universities and stuff. so:

the more leftist gov = the more control and money for you = the more fun!

maybe not so good science, trade and happiness though...

[ancient]

why should communism draw the most tax money, i think it should be one of the least, but more than anarchy. despotism, and monarchy, but less than democracy and republic... so right in the middle, that is if my system get no where

[Juggernaut]

why should communism draw the most tax money

because the state is richer in a socialist land than a capitalist land. i mean, in US, most things are private, ie. schools. you have to pay for social security.

in cuba, everything of this is FREE. just like in USSR. that must be becoz the state is poor, yeah right!

the more left, the more taxes, get it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

The only thing is, without the Soviet "Communism" of Stalin, there is no way that the USSR could have industrialized so rapidly (albeit at an enormous human cost) in the 1930s. This is a major historical fact, but it isn't modelled into the game. The military wasn't even a question in the pre-1940 USSR, so where should this production bonus come from? I think that Communism should receive the benefit of building infrastructure at a lower shield cost.

Yes, but the industrialization came at IMMENSE environmental cost. Basically Stalin raped the land to industrialize rapidly, and since he already had a model to follow, it wasn't that hard. It isn't simply because of Command Communism.

i think everyone´s missing a great point here. communism should generate MORE money than any other gov in civ.

after all, you are the STATE, and get your money throught the taxes! i mean, in a market economy, PRIVATE investors and corps builds hospitals, universities and stuff. so:

the more leftist gov = the more control and money for you = the more fun!

This is a simplistic view. If you take the USSR and the US, the US government made more money through taxes than the USSR did. You may argue that the US was more advanced at that time, fine. However, you cannot argue that in Command Communism there is not corruption and black markets. In fact, the biggest economy in the Soviet Union was the black market.

Nuclear weapons wont kill humans, the idea of money already started to kill us since the begining of civilization.

If you wish to preach about your Lord and Savior Karl Marx, I advise you to check out the Off Topic Forum .

[ancient]

Originally posted by uncle_funk


because the state is richer in a socialist land than a capitalist land. i mean, in US, most things are private, ie. schools. you have to pay for social security.

in cuba, everything of this is FREE. just like in USSR. that must be becoz the state is poor, yeah right!

the more left, the more taxes, get it?

umm no.. cuba govt. is really going broke, and in socialist nations, not communist

[Juggernaut]

are you telling me that CUBA isn´t a communist country?

tragic...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes, but the industrialization came at IMMENSE environmental cost. Basically Stalin raped the land to industrialize rapidly, and since he already had a model to follow, it wasn't that hard. It isn't simply because of Command Communism.

Raped the land? How so? Back up your statement, or else you're about to become BAM3.

[Juggernaut]

This is a simplistic view. If you take the USSR and the US, the US government made more money through taxes than the USSR did. You may argue that the US was more advanced at that time, fine. However, you cannot argue that in Command Communism there is not corruption and black markets. In fact, the biggest economy in the Soviet Union was the black market.

well, since the russians were first in space (im sure you americans love to hear about that ), they couldn´t be so behind in the economic matter, right?

ofcourse an authoritarican state suffers from corruption and black markets. did i say something else?

if you think about it, the more liberal a civ becomes, the less important you, as the ruler becomes. so under a communism giv, who is the opposite of liberalism, you should rule much easilier.

in fact, under democracy, you might not even own all your land!

[ancient]

"stalin raped the land"

eww bad image.....

[Urban Ranger]

Irman,

It seems to me that it is the US that backs off on the Kyoto Protocol and wants to drill for oil in the Alaskan Wildlife Preserves. Of course Japan is another big environmental offender: hunting whales for food in the name of "scientific research" and clearcutting SE Asian forests for chopsticks and toothpicks, just to name a couple.

[JamesJKirk]

I'm agreeing w/ Imran here, the USSR and Soviet bloc didn't exactly hold themselves to any stringent environmental regulations through their industrialization, far worse than western countries even. It'd be easy to find a source that reports on poor air and water quality in the area as a result.

uncle_funk, I don't see why you think that since taxes can be raised more that the govenrment should be economically better off? that certainly wasn't the historical case. And it's not as if 100% of what the average Soviet citizen made would equal what 100% of a citizen of a western democracy made. The tax rate is just a simplification to set how much of your income to devote to income, research and luxuries...

Now's the part where I disagree with Imran:

It's only 100% tax rate if luxuries are 0, which they normally are in a Communist state .

I know it was a light hearted comment, but a great issue with economic restructuring in EasternEurope is that the Soviet countries did provide guaranteed jobs, housing, and more generous pension and food guarantees than a free market can.

And one last thing:

This whole topic is flawed, the starter of this thread assumes that "corruption" in Civ means what it does to most people, political corruption, but it's not like some guy is bribing away a little bit of your gold in take, I don't even think that it is set at 0 corruption, it's just a flat rate, to note the centralization of the economy, as was mentioned earlier. I mean it's just as ludicrous to say that communism has veteran spies, or democracies and republics get and extra trade! It's a game concept made for play balance!!!

[Juggernaut]

uncle_funk, I don't see why you think that since taxes can be raised more that the govenrment should be economically better off?

because it get´s more money.

[KrazyHorse]

Hah!

[Bereta_Eder]

Hey KrazyHorse,

this equation freaked even me out and I am one of the left wing Apolytoners!

[Juggernaut]

I am one of the left wing Apolytoners!

i guess krazyhorse is not.