Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[Nuclear Winter]

Aidun asked me to post this log

-Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Nimitz
-Aidun- -Nimitz- hey]
-Aidun- -Aidun- Are you a lurker in Lego, or an active member?
-Aidun- -Nimitz- active I'm running for FAM again
-Aidun- -Nimitz- see this
-Aidun- -Nimitz- Legoland in anarchy, actual elections!!!(Second attempt)
-Aidun- -Nimitz- you there
-Aidun- * Sharpe has joined #Tabemono
-Aidun- * ChanServ sets mode: +o Sharpe
-Aidun- -Sharpe- Hi!
-Aidun- * Nimitz sets mode: +i
-Aidun- -Nimitz- we can talk he Aidun
-Aidun- -Nimitz- here
-Aidun- -Aidun- Please answer my question in the other window
-Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Sharpe
-Aidun- -Sharpe- Hi Aidun
* Aidun has quit IRC (Excess Flood)
* Aidun has joined #MilOps
-Aidun- -Aidun- problem with the server
-Aidun- -Sharpe- yeah flood
-Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Kloreep
-Aidun- -Sharpe- err... no Kloreep...
-Aidun- -Sharpe-
-Aidun- * Nimitz sets mode: +i
-Aidun- -Nimitz- -Nimitz- I tried my best to keep us together but you kept making unreasonable demand
-Aidun- -Nimitz- [13:06] -Sharpe- Aidun's gone...
-Aidun- -Aidun- wtf, I did see his name somewhere just now
-Aidun- -Aidun- strange
-Aidun- -Nimitz- get to you faster work together on tech before we met
-Aidun- -Sharpe- err he is in the ISDG topic in their chatroom
-Aidun- -Nimitz- and when I couldn't give it you got mad
-Aidun- -Nimitz- wow
-Aidun- -Aidun- Nimitz, please explain, did our team or I made unreasonable demand and got mad?
-Aidun- -Aidun- I have to let you know this: unfortunately, I can't stay long here, my mother will be back in a few minutes and then I have to be offline.
-Aidun- -Nimitz- ok well bye
-Aidun- -Aidun- no, still a few minutes
-Aidun- -Nimitz- and the main demand was the our WM
-Aidun- -Sharpe- and the "RP discount" on trade techs
-Aidun- -Aidun- that was a big mistake indeed
-Aidun- 4please read it and bring the message over as I won't be able to do it/
-Aidun- -Nimitz- well that could of been worked out if
-Aidun- -Aidun- Yes, it may be agressive, but it is one example of an unfulfilled promise
-Aidun- -Nimitz- you and been freindly
-Aidun- -Sharpe- but that bitterness has to be water under the bridge
-Aidun- -Sharpe- Oh I don't know, Togas is at it again with his diplomatic agressiveness in PTWDG2 - guy doesn't learn it appears
-Aidun- -Nimitz- but when we were not able to do things you wanted you got angry and demanding
-Aidun- -Aidun- well bitterness is in every man's heart confronted with war, you can't blame me on that
-Aidun- -Nimitz- not at the war
-Aidun- -Sharpe- that bitterness was well before the war
-Aidun- -Nimitz- just before we were able to get to bob
-Aidun- -Sharpe- or just after actually...
-Aidun- -Nimitz- the fact we got all those tech from GoW seemed to be the final straw
-Aidun- -Sharpe- perhaps RP doesn't realize how furious Lego was with RP , but I don't think that repeating that situation will help
-Aidun- -Aidun- times of which I can alas say little, it was somewhat befor e I became active in RP
-Aidun- -Aidun- It won't help indeed
-Aidun- -Aidun- wehave to face the current situation.
-Aidun- -Nimitz- if you could get GS to leave bob completly and you would make concetions you could maybe survive
-Aidun- -Nimitz- if you could get GS to leave bob completly and you would make concetions you could maybe survive
-Aidun- -Nimitz- they might give you peace for that
-Aidun- -Aidun- I say this to you: I could get the knights of GS away, but I can't do that with just the promise a possibility of survival only, what concrete promisses can you make?
-Aidun- -Nimitz- if not the war would continue of course
-Aidun- -Nimitz- nothing but if you could get the knights to stand down I think we could talk
-Aidun- -Nimitz- of course GoW would have to promise to not attack them
-Aidun- -Sharpe- I think Lego could convince a flag of truce to allow GS to withdraw their forces without fear of attack from GoW or ND
-Aidun- -Nimitz- I think a truce for as long as we talk
-Aidun- -Nimitz- the knights would have to not attack though
-Aidun- -Aidun- But that gives GoW the ability to get forces to the area and build up forces
-Aidun- -Aidun- and ND too
-Aidun- -Sharpe- build up forces to attack RP? or GS?
-Aidun- -Nimitz- welll we can talk be for there turn
-Aidun- -Nimitz- well I gtg go
-Aidun- -Aidun- ok
-Aidun- -Aidun- thatnks for the chat Nimitz
-Aidun- -Nimitz- cya later
-Aidun- -Sharpe- Bye!
-Aidun- -Aidun- cya
-Aidun- -Nimitz- relay this to the team Sharpe
-Aidun- -Sharpe- k
-Aidun- -Nimitz- work to get the talks
-Aidun- -Sharpe- yeah
-Aidun- * Nimitz is now known as Nimitz|away
-Aidun- -Aidun- I can only accept diplomatic talks as long as no others will habe the opportunity to produce or move, as that would disadvantage us.
-Aidun- -Sharpe- We can certainly try for that
-Aidun- -Sharpe- GoW and ND did offer you guys peace earlier, but you insisted on getting all of your territory back
-Aidun- -Sharpe- GoW and ND did offer you guys peace earlier, but you insisted on getting all of your territory back
-Aidun- -Sharpe- admittedly I don't know if they really meant it of course
-Aidun- -Aidun- I only know of hatred and unofficial treaties or those that were just unjust such as nearly-elimination, RP-citystate.
-Aidun- -Sharpe- hmm
-Aidun- -Aidun- I only know of hatred and unofficial treaties or those that were just unjust such as nearly-elimination, RP-citystate.
-Aidun- -Sharpe- hmm
-Aidun- -Aidun- S I am very interested in good intentions from GoW and ND
-Aidun- -Sharpe- so would we be
-Aidun- -Sharpe- I think that Lego needs to talk to GS
-Aidun- -Aidun- you could do that, sooner or later you have.
-Aidun- -Sharpe- most of us want to ... except for the ones you know about
-Aidun- -Aidun- yes.
-Aidun- -Sharpe- we were finally breaking away from this alliance but GS invasion of GoW has muddled things up
-Aidun- -Aidun- Then do like I'm doing now too: on your own initiative, if it goes wrong, alas, if not you have a deal
-Aidun- -Sharpe- not sure who to talk to on GS now
-Aidun- -Sharpe- they have lost a lot of members
-Aidun- -Aidun- You know my argument against it. I have to see a real intention for peace on fair terms. Show deeds and we can talk with GS
-Aidun- -Sharpe- would you be willing to accept your current city situation (plus the ones from GS) for a while?
-Aidun- -Aidun- I need to think about that first and have a meeting with the RP members
-Aidun- -Sharpe- you know that eventually GoW and ND will get too aggressive and invade either us or GS
-Aidun- -Aidun- I'll be back online tomorrow everning
-Aidun- -Aidun- cya then
-Aidun- -Sharpe- your area would be perfect for landing on Bob in a railroad era
-Aidun- -Sharpe- Bye

[Aidun]

A chat BigFree and I had with OctavianX in MilOps:

Aidun> Hi Octavian and BigFree
Octavian_X> Hello Aidun.
Aidun> Any news about the war=
Aidun> ?
Octavian_X> Lemme check up on the forum...
Aidun> Sharpe and Nimitz had the idea of seeking to contact GS
Octavian_X> Yes, I've just pulled up a chat log from yesterday.
Aidun> Is there something you thing that is interesting for us=
Octavian_X> hmm...
Octavian_X> Sharpe> To be honest Legoland is concerned about your invasion of GoW's territory
Aidun> That´s what he said against me too
Octavian_X> More along the same lines...
Octavian_X> Sharpe> K, to get to the point - Lego has a defensive alliance with GoW - regarding any invasion of their home territory - since neither you nor RP have attacked into their homeland until now - Legoland has remained uninvolved
Aidun> Do you mid if I share that info=
Aidun> with the other RP members=
Octavian_X> I would think it's relavent to the situation.
Octavian_X> mmm, ****...
Octavian_X> Don't tell anyone I told you that.
Octavian_X> Strictly speaking, the chat is supposed to reamin confidential.
Octavian_X> *that
Aidun> promised
Octavian_X> And, in other good news, we're closer to hammering something out with GoW.
Octavian_X> If all works out well, RP's exile to N. Stormia will end soon.
Aidun> CaWe ill be exiled=
Aidun> * we will be exiled?
Octavian_X> GoW is intent on fulfilling it's earlier contract, as you know. It only stipulates the RP be removed from the continent.
Octavian_X> Not destroyed, mind you.
BigFree> We know nothing of theis "contract"
Octavian_X> Perhaps I'm assuming too much, or spiiling things I shouldn't....
BigFree>
BigFree> thats ok
BigFree> GS and RP should share all info
Aidun> Well, then I can inform you that such an agreement is useless, RP will under no condition give up what it has now, rather die than fly
BigFree> We have agreed to a full game alliance with you
Octavian_X> That's about all the information I have.
Aidun> Octavian, I would like to discuss a strategy with you to get lego away from the rest
Aidun> I already told Arnelos of it and he found it interesting, but is, unfortunately, not online
Octavian_X> I'm glad to listen...
Aidun> the idea is as follows:
Aidun> Lego´s biggest fear is that GS will become too powerful and they fear that if GS gets a more permanent base on GS, such shall happen± GS will become too strong.
Aidun> You get that?
Octavian_X> umm, not really...
Octavian_X> for GS to get a permanet base on GS
Octavian_X> ?
Aidun> well, the current ownings of GS on BOB are not very permanent, but if you will get a larger amount of lan on Bob, Lego fears that you´ll get too strong.
Octavian_X> ok, that's understandable. Please continue.
Aidun> That is, or so Sharpe told me, why they formed the defensive alliance with GoW. Sharpe didn´t mention the term defensive alliance, but in fact he meant the samewhen we talked two days ago.
Aidun> Lego sees your attack on GoW as a direct threat, because they expect you will conquer a big amount of land there and thus, in their view, become to powerful.
Octavian_X> There's logical reasoning behind that.
Aidun> Now I had an idea to convince Lego that this war is not going to benefit GS that much. The way to do that is this: We make up a treaty that will be unofficial between us, but official towards to outside world. In this treaty we state that GS will only get the harbor cities they have now and that we will pay for GS´s aid in the war with luxuries instead of land. We also state that the land GoW and ND own will remain largely theirs, but that RP will get a little bit of southern ND territory and that Vox will own other territories in the north.
Aidun> Thus we make Lego think that Bob will remain divided and thus no threat to them, that GS will remain on Estonia and thus become not too powerful.
Aidun> It is likely that Lego will support the alliance that is fighting to realize their long-term ****
Aidun> can´t get on the word
Aidun> You understand this=
Octavian_X> yes, I do.
Octavian_X> I think it's a workable plan, depending on Lego's actions.
Octavian_X> Unless you've got more, I'll post a log.
Aidun> this is it.
Octavian_X> thanks.
Aidun> Perhaps interesting to write down too is that GoW´s plan is juast the opposite.
Aidun> They intend to Get Bob for themselves and ND
Aidun> something that Lego fears enormously
Aidun> though Vondrack fears us more than GoW
Aidun> while Nimitz, Sharpe and the rest fear them more than you
Aidun> this was really all
Aidun> and I have to go offline

[BigFree]

Chat about War with GS

Session Start: Tue Nov 11 00:00:00 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
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[15:15] Aidun Hi Octavian and BigFree
[15:15] Octavian_X Hello Aidun.
[15:16] Aidun Any news about the war=
[15:16] Aidun ?
[15:17] Octavian_X Lemme check up on the forum...
[15:19] Aidun Sharpe and Nimitz had the idea of seeking to contact GS
[15:22] Octavian_X Yes, I've just pulled up a chat log from yesterday.
[15:22] Aidun Is there something you thing that is interesting for us=
[15:23] Octavian_X hmm...
[15:24] Octavian_X Sharpe To be honest Legoland is concerned about your invasion of GoW's territory
[15:24] Aidun That.s what he said against me too
[15:25] Octavian_X More along the same lines...
[15:25] Octavian_X Sharpe K, to get to the point - Lego has a defensive alliance with GoW - regarding any invasion of their home territory - since neither you nor RP have attacked into their homeland until now - Legoland has remained uninvolved
[15:25] Aidun Do you mid if I share that info=
[15:25] Aidun with the other RP members=
[15:26] Octavian_X I would think it's relavent to the situation.
[15:27] Octavian_X mmm, ****...
[15:27] Octavian_X Don't tell anyone I told you that.
[15:27] Octavian_X Strictly speaking, the chat is supposed to reamin confidential.
[15:27] Octavian_X *that
[15:28] Aidun promised
[15:29] Octavian_X And, in other good news, we're closer to hammering something out with GoW.
[15:30] Octavian_X If all works out well, RP's exile to N. Stormia will end soon.
[15:30] Aidun CaWe ill be exiled=
[15:30] Aidun * we will be exiled?
[15:31] Octavian_X GoW is intent on fulfilling it's earlier contract, as you know. It only stipulates the RP be removed from the continent.
[15:31] Octavian_X Not destroyed, mind you.
[15:32] BigFree We know nothing of theis "contract"
[15:32] Octavian_X Perhaps I'm assuming too much, or spiiling things I shouldn't....
[15:32] BigFree
[15:32] BigFree thats ok
[15:32] BigFree GS and RP should share all info
[15:33] Aidun Well, then I can inform you that such an agreement is useless, RP will under no condition give up what it has now, rather die than fly
[15:33] BigFree We have agreed to a full game alliance with you
[15:35] Octavian_X That's about all the information I have.
[15:37] Aidun Octavian, I would like to discuss a strategy with you to get lego away from the rest
[15:38] Aidun I already told Arnelos of it and he found it interesting, but is, unfortunately, not online
[15:39] Octavian_X I'm glad to listen...
[15:39] Aidun the idea is as follows:
[15:41] Aidun Lego.s biggest fear is that GS will become too powerful and they fear that if GS gets a more permanent base on GS, such shall happen. GS will become too strong.
[15:41] Aidun You get that?
[15:42] Octavian_X umm, not really...
[15:42] Octavian_X for GS to get a permanet base on GS
[15:42] Octavian_X ?
[15:44] Aidun well, the current ownings of GS on BOB are not very permanent, but if you will get a larger amount of lan on Bob, Lego fears that you.ll get too strong.
[15:44] Octavian_X ok, that's understandable. Please continue.
[15:45] Aidun That is, or so Sharpe told me, why they formed the defensive alliance with GoW. Sharpe didn.t mention the term defensive alliance, but in fact he meant the samewhen we talked two days ago.
[15:47] Aidun Lego sees your attack on GoW as a direct threat, because they expect you will conquer a big amount of land there and thus, in their view, become to powerful.
[15:48] Octavian_X There's logical reasoning behind that.
[15:51] Aidun Now I had an idea to convince Lego that this war is not going to benefit GS that much. The way to do that is this: We make up a treaty that will be unofficial between us, but official towards to outside world. In this treaty we state that GS will only get the harbor cities they have now and that we will pay for GS.s aid in the war with luxuries instead of land. We also state that the land GoW and ND own will remain largely theirs, but that RP
[15:52] Aidun Thus we make Lego think that Bob will remain divided and thus no threat to them, that GS will remain on Estonia and thus become not too powerful.
[15:54] Aidun It is likely that Lego will support the alliance that is fighting to realize their long-term ****
[15:54] Aidun can.t get on the word
[15:54] Aidun You understand this=
[15:55] Octavian_X yes, I do.
[15:55] Octavian_X I think it's a workable plan, depending on Lego's actions.
[15:55] Octavian_X Unless you've got more, I'll post a log.
[15:56] Aidun this is it.
[15:58] Octavian_X thanks.
[15:58] Aidun Perhaps interesting to write down too is that GoW.s plan is juast the opposite.
[15:58] Aidun They intend to Get Bob for themselves and ND
[15:58] Aidun something that Lego fears enormously
[15:59] Aidun though Vondrack fears us more than GoW
[15:59] Aidun while Nimitz, Sharpe and the rest fear them more than you
[15:59] Aidun this was really all
[16:00] Aidun and I have to go offline
[16:04] Aidun cya tomorrow.
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[Togas]

To our dearest friends, the favoured jewels of God's Earth, blessed and pious children of venerable and wise Calixtus.

There's a consensus here among your loyal and noble allies in GS that the status quo and continuation of this war is not the way to go if we are to avoid eventual defeat. There is also a very strong desire and commitment to keep your great nation in this mortal coil so that they might enjoy it to its conclusion as a friend and ally of the Gathering Storm nation. If your holy and beloved Spain cannot be held from the combined might of the Infidel, we are even prepared to offer you dwelling on our own humble soil under our protection.

However much your brave and fearless Knights of the Cross would like to fight GoW until the end of all days, or until they return Spain to its people, this approach may not be able to be reconciled with our abillity to offer protection. In short, we do not wish to forever continue a fight which will cost us the Holy Grail we all seek. Unfortunately we yet see no glimmer of light within the corrupt darkness of Lego, and fear that the proposed 'fake treaty' will do little to affect the balance of forces and alliances in the world except to further damage what's left of Gathering Storm's unfairly maligned reputation.

So, it is not inconceivable that there is some set of circumstances whereby our envoys could make peace with the Riders of the Night in a deal which ultimately would see the blessed Children of his Holiness survive and living on in Spain as we all wish. However, a precondition of such an arrangement would require both GoW and RP to drop their historical grudges against each other and continue to live in peace.

If your bold Knights will never make peace with GoW then we have a problem. Many GS members distrust GoW, but have no wish to destroy ourselves fighting them indefinitely - just to let ND and Lego decide amongst themselves who seizes the Holy Grail at the end of time. We cannot protect you from GoW if you are still intent on harming them after a hypothetical peace.

The war has not gone well, though we are pleased and honoured that your brave nation has survived, and we have to salvage what we can and draw a line under the past or ultimately fail.

We have reason to believe it probable that GoW would drop its hostility and desire to exterminate RP if RP would reciprocally drop its hostility and desire to exterminate GoW.

Finally, could you possibly furnish us with further information on any recent GoW peace offerings? If they offered you your current holdings minus Pamplona, then they are perhaps prepared to offer more than we were hitherto aware.

May the sun continue to shine on his Holiness and his loyal servants,

Respectfuly Yours,

Cort Haus
Gathering Storm

(cc Arnelos)

[Togas]

Cort Haus,

We have, indeed, been given a peace offer that allowed for a small piece of land that encompasses the area of Toledo, Madrid, and Barcelona, and runs through the jungle east to the coast. None on our team were very pleased to receive it.

I will do what I can to deal with my nation's hatred for GoW. I do think that peace is possible, but fear that even if we accepted peace, it will be under such onerous terms, and that the balance of power on our continent would be permanently destroyed.

However, I too see no future in this war. We have not and cannot make signifigant gains. We are falling behind them in technology, especially with the sinister Legolanders meddling.

I know not what to say, and I am not optimistic about our options. If any reasonable options present themself, please let us know.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

We're willing to make peace, but we demand better terms than those currently offered by GoW.

If GoW wants to continue the war, we will be happy to do so. We will continue the war for as long as we have not yet received acceptable terms from GoW for its end.

Pretty simple.

[Aidun]

This is bad news. Now all hope on a better future is lost. I read this with mingled feelings. I have no trust in GoW that when we make peace they will keep word, but yes, without a lot of support form Lego, this war is endless and has no winners.
However, I play with the idea that if the war has no winners, unfortunately we cannot win it, but GoW and ND can't win it too and it will drain their economies and slow their development.

Aidun

[Togas]

Togas,

Here is a link to a zip file of this turn's screenshots.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Theseus/PTWDG340AD.zip

We are concerned for the safety of the Barcelona and are moving the six latest knights towards our fortifications west of that city. Unfortunately your workers are on the road and we must regrettably ask if they could withdraw from the road this turn to enable our knights to reach the intended defensive position. Maybe we are lucky and they finish their work next turn anway. If not, I'm sure you agree that our defensive security is a priority.

Better news - with our strength of forces around Pamplona, it is unlikely that the enemy will risk attacking it yet, as they will be unlikely to hold it and risk losing a major force.

Regards,

CH
GS

[Togas]

Hi Togas,

Hope you're well.

We have a bold plan at GS which we need to discuss with you. The goal is to negotiate a peace with GoW that allows RP to return to Spain after a sojourn in N.Stormia. We are making good progress with GoW in the negotiations, thus far.

Theseus did want to approach you personally in full roleplaying garb but he seems to gave gotten work-bound the last few days, so I'm having to take the initiative, and frankly don't have the time to rewrite my points in that prose style - fun though it is.

I'm off to rehearse in my band now - but I'll be back around 0100 GMT if you're around then for a chat. If we're lucky Theseus might be around too. If you see him online meantime, you might want to grab him, but beware, his mailbox may be full. Otherwise, some other time.

We may be close to a new dawn!

Regards,

Cort Haus aka Lord Blackadder,
Emergency Deputy Minister of Cunning Plans,
Gathering Storm
Stormia.

[Aidun]

I wonder what GS and GoW are exactly up to.

If we can regain some of our former glory in some way, you have my vote to do it. We have but to be watchful and do any transfers of ownership over important cities with great care.

If we notice something about the enemy troops that is unusual or if we get indications of another trap, WE SHOULD NOT REFUSE TO BREAK ANY TREATY OR PROMISE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR VERY SURVIVAL.

Second, now that GS is doing some negotiations with GoW and they say that they are making good progress, it might be worth discussing about showing the final result to Legoland.
This can cause 2 scenarios:

1) If Lego has certain information from GoW that we do not have, and they see a danger for their own security because they see a GoW-trap that would cause us to loose this war, Lego will surely put pressure on GoW to not use this trap or break away.

2) Lego might pass, but I think that is less likely, to ND. ND becomes aware of a scenario in which an alliance of GoW, GS and RP is about to crush them and the GoW-ND relation might fall apart.

These things can only happen IF:

1) GoW was not clever enough to foresee fear from Legoland and they did not anticipate on it by promising Legoland something valueble to them that counterbalances a potential threat from GoW (and ND).

2) GoW was not clever enough to share at least some info about these negotiations with ND so that ND will not fear GoW's dagger in their back if the final text of the treaty is shown to them, and will believe GoW instead of the text distributed by us via Lego.


Perhaps this is interesting to think about, or at least to discuss.

Diomingo Cian

[BigFree]

I trust GS on this issue, let's follow their lead. We are dead meat without them so it's pointless to not go along anyways.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by BigFree
I trust GS on this issue, let's follow their lead. We are dead meat without them so it's pointless to not go along anyways.

So do I, but still I wonder what they are exactly negotiating for.

Aidun

[BigFree]

They are negotiating for RP's complete removal from Bob. However, after a brief time on North Stormia, we would then be allowed to come back to Bob. The way it would work is that we would gift all cities to GS that are on bob except our Capitol. The we move all units out of our Capitol then GS decalres war and take Pamplona forcibly becasue we cannot gift it away, the game wont allow it. Then we get a palace jump to North Stormia. We stay there for a turn or two. GoW's "contact" with ND is done and then we are allowed to move back to Bob with GS gifting us back all of our cities. GS, the decalres war again on us, in order to take outr new capitol citiy in North tormia, thus moving our Captiol back to Bob.

This is all happening in conjuntion with GS making a new contract with GoW against ND and possibly Lego....

[Aidun]

Notice my comments in the IMPORTANTE thread.

Aidun

[Togas]

PTWDG intel
Togas,

Can you report to us on GoW's actions and disposition ASAP? We need the intel for our ongoing negotiations with them.

T

Do we have any screenshots from the last turn we can send to GoW?

--Togas