Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[Togas]

Togas,

First, an update:

We are trying to get GoW to accept an eventual 2/3 to 1/3 split of Bob, with GS and RP sharing around 250 of Bob's 750 tiles. This roughly corresponds to the area south of the jungle in the west, and south of a line running from the river N of Pamplona, North of Toledo to the coast SE of Mavdad.

Meanwhile, we have some questions for you...

1) What has been built in Pamplona?

2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them?

3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built?

also,

4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat).

Many thanks,

CH

[Togas]

1) What has been built in Pamplona?

Granary, Temple, Barracks, Palace

2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them?

We either mass teleport them to Vox, or use them in the assault on ND. We'll need them to protect Pamplona initially. My best offer is to have them join in the attack, or to spearhead the attack and have your troops follow (as your turn follows our turn) in taking the city or position attacked.

We will have some trouble against their muskets, though. I don't anticipate our troops being exceptionally useful. Their main use will be to hold positions, as we have a large # of pikemen.

3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built?

One day we'd like to repopulate and rebuild all of Old Spain. We're willing to work on a long-term timetable for that. We understand that you must hold most of the cities in the early stages of your war on GS. We're unclear on if GS wants to keep permanent cities on Bob or not. If so, we'll work around your cities.


4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat).

We'll figure that out in the next few weeks. Please feel free to name new cities on Bob what you like, but we would request that you keep the names of our old cities that remain, and if any city is liberated from the Arabs, we'd request that its original name be restored.

--Togas

[Togas]

Togas,

I'm sorry to have to report that we've had advanced warning from Aggie that his team as a whole is not going to accept the offer from GS, despite many of them seeing the deal as fair and practical. It was a bold plan and we came close, but alas, no cigar.
Perhaps better peace options will be available once their Golden Ages and WW sets in. Do you know when their GA's end - it must be soon now?

We are discussing our options at the moment. Meanwhile, the longer Pamplona can hold the better. We know that GoW are extremely keen to gain control of it, and we suspect the possibility of saltpeter being within its radius. We could be wrong, it may just be the strategic location they desire in the heart of Spain. We will have gunpowder in 7-8 turns - then we finally get to see whether the stories about saltpeter are true.

We are concerned about both Lego (on the Powergraph) and Vox too. I am getting no reply from Beta to my messages, and he's been saying odd things on the gen forum lately. Do you have a channel open with Vox? Any Intel would be greatly appreciated. The possibility of a Vox / Lego assault on Stormia from the east cannot be ruled out - so we may need to deploy units from Bob to defend the coast.

Finally, in the course of trying to persuade GoW, we compared the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the findings, which we'd like to should share with you (if you don't already have this info):

Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia)

Bob : ~ 750 tiles

Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia)

All we can ask you to do for now is to sit tight, stay fortified in Pamplona and pray to the RNG Gods. Meanwhile we might need to teleport some units to Stormia via one of your cities we currently control to defend our east coast.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards

CH

[Togas]

Togas,

Here are screenshots from this turn :

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_nstorm.jpg
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_spain.jpg
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_lego.jpg

We have launched a rescue mssion for the stranded knights, and there are now 19 GS knights on the forest at Pamplona-1, with six on the mountain at Alamo-63.

We are withdrawing from North Bob and lining the Stormian coast until we can be sure that Lego/Vox are not attacking from the east. A screenshot is included of the 10 Lego knights we saw near Yellowknife. We've also launched some diplo at Lego, to try and see how we might detatch them from the rest of their alliance.

Regards,

CH

[Aidun]

Ehm, I can't view the screenshots, 'Poly reports that I've found a missing page.

Aidun

[Togas]

hmm..

Try putting an underline between "cort" and "haus"

It works when I click on the links in the PM, but for some reason maybe it's not copying right.

--Togas

[Aidun]

The problem is the space between cort and haus and an underline doesn't work, neither does replacing the capital C by a normal c work. Could you perhaps try to post them again?
Or perhaps open the page yourself and then copy the adress from the URL bar into a post.

Maybe that works.

Aidun

[Togas]

new links for the latest images:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort%20Haus/zx360_nstorm.jpg

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort%20Haus/zx360_spain.jpg

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort%20Haus/zx360_lego.jpg

--Togas

[Aidun]

Chat with GS:

Session Start: Sat Dec 13 00:15:49 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
* Now talking in #MilOps
* opd has joined #Milops
* opd is now known as opdwaitingformzoepic1
* opdwaitingformzoepic1 is now known as opd
[Aidun> OPD
[opd> yes
[opd> did you meet with GS people?
[Aidun> Arnelos and I have consensus on what we think id the best strategy for our allaince, concerning RP's exodus
[Aidun> but BigFree couldn't join it. He's not yet responded
[opd> did you speak to cort haus
[Aidun> We prefer to give him a chance to view our consensus agreement before it becomes official.
[Aidun> No, I saw his PM at 0:22, local time, about 35 minutes ago
[opd> do you think he'll agree?
[Aidun> At that time he PMed me half an hour before I read it
[Aidun> Can't say. BF is a hawk
[Aidun> sometimes
[opd> so what would you like to do then?
[Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you
* Cort has joined #MilOps
[Cort> hi
[opd> hey hey
[opd> just about to PM you
[Cort> I saw Aiduns PM
[Aidun> Hey Cort Haus
[Cort> Alright, Aidun
[Cort> It's good to talk to some of you guts at last
[opd> [Aidun> Arnelos and I have consensus on what we think id the best strategy for our allaince, concerning RP's exodus
[opd> [Aidun> but BigFree couldn't join it. He's not yet responded
[opd> [opd> did you speak to cort haus
[opd> [Aidun> We prefer to give him a chance to view our consensus agreement before it becomes official.
[opd> [Aidun> No, I saw his PM at 0:22, local time, about 35 minutes ago
[opd> [opd> do you think he'll agree?
[opd> [Aidun> At that time he PMed me half an hour before I read it
[Cort> er, guys
[opd> [Aidun> Can't say. BF is a hawk
[opd> [Aidun> sometimes
[opd> [opd> so what would you like to do then?
[opd> [Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you
[opd> * Cort has joined #MilOps
[opd>
[Cort> have I missed much?
[opd> just that
[Cort> ok, that's cool ...
[Cort> you can be really useful to as as a tech partner
[Cort> *us excuse terrible typing
[Cort> We have gunpowder very soon
[Aidun> ass long ass we can understand watt you wright, its fine
[Cort>
[Cort> - and reason to belive that other civs will be keen to offer us generous trading terms
[Aidun> That is great, but can RP be of real benefit to you, or are we just that other team you are carying on you back
[Aidun> please be honest
[Cort> there's been discussion in the team about this ...
[Cort> on one hand we could have our own core up there eventually
[Cort> but on the other hand you guys coould have a core there now
* Octavian_X has joined #milops
[Aidun> right, it could spare you an FP in the future
[Cort> five cities at size six, many sea tiles could generate easily 80gpt righth?
[Aidun> I don't know about numbers
[Cort> hi Octavian
[Aidun> Hi Octavian
[Octavian_X> Hello.
[Cort> there are 26 tiles of sea wall to cover ...
* Disconnected
Session Close: Sat Dec 13 01:09:32 2003

Session Start: Sat Dec 13 01:09:35 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
* Now talking in #MilOps
[Octavian_X> That's disappointing...
[Aidun> something went wrong...
[Cort> ok to continue?
[Aidun> yes
[Cort> there are about 26 units of coast to cover ..
[Cort> you could build cats for this
[Aidun> ok
[Cort> they have many attractions - cheap, upgrade to nice things and they ping ships
[opd> were blocking the tiles so were invincible till amphibious warfare
[Cort> then we can move our forces south for our own sea wall
[Cort> we'll both be safe in a cocoon for over an era
[Aidun> So we build cats to shoot the enemy boats
[Cort> during which time we build up, become commercially strong and hope the others break themselves in war
[Cort> - especially Lego
[Aidun> Seems a good plan
[Cort> Now, if ND/GoW go and invade Lego ...
[Cort> they don't want us jumping in behind - that's both of us and you'll have conquistadors
[Aidun> so they have to fight two fronts again
[Cort> Yes - So at the very least they'll pay for our neutrality
[Cort> If they don't attack Lego, Lego win - right?
[Aidun> right
[Aidun> you force them to
[Aidun> and GoW is not the type of team to go for one era of building
[Cort> lol - Yes - and there's our leverage
[Cort> GoW have made us a peace offer
[Cort> A cease fire - via formal peace and we'd get some wine
[Cort> that may not be the right price, but it's the right direction
[Cort> all signs are that once we're off Bob, they don't want to be enemies at all
[Aidun> I cannot speak for my team until at least BigFree has seen it. But if you agree to this with your team, Arnelos and I will agree to this too and I expect BigFree to do that to. Afterall we're desperate and every opportunity to continue AND be of worth to you is for us a reason to go on and go for it.
[Cort> and the scenario above explains why
[Cort> sure, Aidun - we're interested in what RP as a team think, and what individuals think
[Cort> Arrian may be chatting to Arnelos later - they're on the same team in the MZOC3C game
[Aidun> very well.
[Cort> this is geat Aidun, I appreciate the chat
[Aidun> Another practical thing that means a lot for our team: Pamplona and the remains of Spain that are on your hands now
[Cort> Yes, we need to talk about that
[Aidun> what will we do with that? Arnelos and I have consensus about that too.
[Cort> You probably have a lot of bargaining power with GoW now
[opd> what do you about it?
[Aidun> I have a plan
[Cort> go on
[Aidun> We no longer in vest in the war: no offensive campaigns anymore, no extra finance to keep up an army on Bob, but:
[Aidun> remain Pamplona as long as possible, and if that doesn't drain your economy, remain the other cities on Bob as well and only making suer there is some basic defense in it. For Pamplona we intend to keep it as long as possible and try to defend it. If we lose it, so be it. We don't want to do anything anymore to recover lost cities.
[Cort> Aggie told us something about Pamplona
[Octavian_X> That does sound like a good idea. I don't see why ND and GoW would object to allowing RP one city on Bob...
[Cort> The battle of the Forest of Doom hit them and ND hard too - mainly ND,
[Aidun> Forest of Doom, weren't I so desperate, I'd write a story about it
[Cort> but that was enough to stop the combined one-two that would have taken it
[Aidun>
[Aidun> right
[Cort> Listen - Aggie says that battle gave Pamplona another FIFTEEN turns
[Cort> waddya think of that?
[Aidun> that is a lot. And with your new approach I think it's useless for them to attack
[Cort> - exactly
[Cort> I think you could do a deal with GoW
[Aidun> especially if we'd put muskets in it.
[opd> I gotta go to bed
[opd> see you guys around
[Cort> cya
* opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
[Aidun> ok OPD. cya
[Aidun> but that is not a plan right now
* asleepathewheel has joined #milOps
[Cort> Hey, AATW!
[asleepathewheel> hey
[asleepathewheel> whats going on right now?
[Aidun> interesting info Cort, I guess Arn can do something with it.
[Aidun> put it to use.
[Cort> to summarise :
[Cort> so far ...
[Aidun> Hey AATW, I have but to go in a few minutes
[Cort> OK
[asleepathewheel> ah, right, I'll get the wrap later
[asleepathewheel>
[Cort> when can we talk again?

[Aidun]

The consensus Arnelos and I have:

Session Start: Sat Dec 13 00:16:27 2003
Session Ident: Arnelos
* Logging Arnelos to 'logs\Arnelos.GRNet.log'
[Aidun> Do we need to discuss what to do once more or do we generally agree?
[Arnelos> you tell me... what does the team agree on? I'm not sure
[Aidun> lets see
[Aidun> its about the exodus you know
[Arnelos> right
[Arnelos> what IS the team's decision
[Arnelos> I'm not sure
[Aidun> there is no decision of the team, Togas PMed me about that. did you receive a PM too?
[Aidun> from him?
[Arnelos> no
[Aidun> I'll forward it then.
[Arnelos> ok
[Arnelos> I think we should just post a poll in the forum
[Arnelos> explain the issue and let the team decide
[Aidun> the team is us three: You, Bigfree and I, if it is up to Togas
[Arnelos> ok
[Arnelos> what's your vote?
[Aidun> moment, I noticed CH and AATW PMed me
[Aidun> Ch PMED me half an hour ago if I was online
[Aidun> Im forwarding Togas's now
[Arnelos> ok
[Aidun> sent
* Aidun is getting a cup of tea
[Aidun> back
[Aidun> but what do you think of the PM? can we get consensus?
[Arnelos> here's what I think... I'm willing to let the decision be GS' frankly
[Arnelos> I have no particular attachment to this game anymore
[Arnelos> I'll stay in it if RP Team surviving will help GS
[Arnelos> but if we're not actually going to help GS, I see little reason to keep going
[Aidun> But don't you have your own ideas about it. Wait, didn't you post in the 390 thread? I have to reread it
[Arnelos> not sure if that's what I posted, but that's what I think now
[Aidun> You wanted to talk with ND about peace, that was your last post
[Arnelos> ah, yes
[Arnelos> that's the only way to survive, I believe
[Arnelos> assuming we're interested in survival, that's our only ticket
[Aidun> I think we're better off talking to Neu Demogyptica about a seperate peace. ND has most of the territory they want and if they have even a fraction of a brain, have far more to be worried about concerning their alliance fracturing after the peace and ND getting the boot.
[Aidun> Let's see if ND has any brain cells left after their wild drinking binge of a war. If they're really going to play the dupe for Legoland and Glory of War, there may not be much hope. Best bet might be to contact Legoland, then finally Glory of War.
[Aidun> Does anyone have ANY contact information for Neu Demogyptica? We need that and we need it now.
[Aidun> this it your post
[Aidun> I believe that you're right
[Aidun> peace is the only way to survive, but in case we don't get peace?
[Arnelos> then we ask GS if it's really worth keeping us around
[Aidun> Arnelos?
[Arnelos> sorry
[Aidun> np
[Arnelos> to me, it depends on our utility to GS... if GS has little use for keeping us and we're either more of a liability or simply a non-factor, there's little reason to stay alive
[Arnelos> *to help
[Arnelos> if, on the other hand, we can still aid GS, then we can stay around merely to help them
[Aidun> To that I fully agree
[Arnelos> so we should ask GS
[Arnelos> what use will we REALLY be put to and how much will that REALLY help GS?
[Aidun> and if we can aid GS? I suggest that we do slow retreat. no offensives, just let GS keep up a low defensive force in the cities they posess to defend it and we maintain Pamplona as long as possible.
[Arnelos> that probably works
[Aidun> and if we lose cities, then we lose them, so be it, I don't want to do more offensive missions on Bob before this war has ended.
[Arnelos> indeed
[Aidun> then we agree and BigFree probably too
[Arnelos> probably
[Aidun> shall I post this result as the final result then?
[Arnelos> go ahead and post that that's what we agree to, see if BF has any comment (or anyone else sill alive)
[Arnelos> *still
[Aidun> right
[Aidun> And can we share this with GS already or do you rather send it tomorrow.
[Aidun> *would you
[Arnelos> check with BF first, let's make sure we're all on the same page
[Arnelos> once that's done, we send it
[Aidun> ok
[Arnelos> I'd still like to hold a chat with asleepathewheel, though
[Arnelos> he said he'd try to catch us in chat
[Aidun> always interesting
[Arnelos> (this weekend)
[Aidun> I guess he might arrive by the time I quit or tomorrow or sunday
[Arnelos> don't know
[Arnelos> we'll see
[Arnelos> we can go ahead and tell him that's what the two of us think
[Aidun> that's waht I'm doing now
Session Close: Sat Dec 13 01:41:48 2003

Aidun

[Aidun]

A PM from Cort Haus that was sent to me and BigFree:

Cort Haus wrote on 13-12-2003 15:47:
Arnelos,

I've been thinking long and hard about the current balance of forces on Bob, and in the world.

On Bob, the recent carnage has left RP in a far stronger position than they were a few turns ago, and have also left Lego in a commanding game position.

Now may be the time for all four nations in the Bobian war to make a final settlement.

I believe that RP could negotiate a deal with GoW and ND which grants peace and land rights to RP on Bob, plus a generous tech and luxury package to RP and GS in exchange for existing cities (including Pamp, Barca, New Madrid). RP palace moves to Miller Town where they have 5 cities on Estonia, plus a negotiable token city presence on Bob - to be decided amongst the Bobians. GS would have no part in those land negotiations. GS also assures GoW and ND that they will not intervene or land on Bob while ND and GoW go and take Lego down a peg or two. (destroying Bach and Sistine, for example)

I've posted the this thinking on our private forum for our team to consider - so this is just an idea and not our team position - but I think both teams should be thinking about this option. If GS and RP like it, we can push it at GoW and ND to see what they think. We have to move fast - I feel that the participants in this war should not be wasting a single shield on each other that they now should be saving for Lego.

Regards,

Cort Haus

cc BigFree, Aidun

I've copied it to the ND negotiation thread too.

Aidun

[Togas]

PM from Vox Controli

Greetings to Togas, BigFree, Arnelos and the many fine people of Spain,

We of Vox Controli now live in a harsh land. The rock known as Voxtavia is an unforgiving land mass and only our beaches and great fishing industry have sustained us. But the people of Voxtavia are hardy. We survive and now thrive.

We have been working on a project that might interest the people of Spain. By necessity, much of our population consists of fishermen and mountain men, but a new generation of us have begun to study the few books we were able to bring with us. The desire for wider distribution of these books is leading us to develop a process of printing on a special press. No longer will our few scribes be forced to work day and night to produce our books. Perhaps in a few more years, once we have perfected the process we would be able to share our printing press techniques with the people of Spainin exchange for knowledge we do not possess.

Best regards to Roleplay

Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli

P.S. in simple terms, we will have printing press in several more turns and would be willing to trade it with you then for tech. If you would like to make an offer I will discuss it with the rest of my team. Thanks.

[Arnelos]

PM from Darekill of ND:

Dear Arnelos,
as almost always RP has added some fun to the game.
You seem to misunderstand your situation completely. We risk something by offering you this plan.
You gain alot in saving your troops in Pamplona.
Pamplona will fall. That is not the point. Of course we'd loose some more Ansar in the process but that's not decisive.
Toledo and the other RP citys wouldn't hold long against GoW and ND either. You should know that.
By promising you that neither Pamplona nor Toledo would be razed nor renamed we are adding again something as you said.
I told my people what you wrote me and they all feel the same. The thing is quite easy there's no need to chat, you can agree to our terms, or leave it be. Pamplona will be ours soon if you don't raze it beforehand. So make your decisions and be asured you don't have forever to decide.
Darekill
Ambasador to Spain

Obviously, I'm telling him "no deal".

I'll tell him that if he's willing to discuss something IN RETURN for us doing them the favor of voluntarily giving up our territory without a fight, then we have something to discuss. If he's not willing to give anything in return, then we have nothing to discuss.

Period.

I have no intention of supporting our team giving up without a fight unless it MEANS something that is going to help change the future of the game to the benefit of the GS/RP alliance.

[Arnelos]

Got a PM from Arrian that I'm frankly not going to post because much of it was just letting me know how members of Gathering Storm were reacting to a PM apparently sent by BigFree to the members of Gathering Storm blasting them for being "cowards" for seeking to withdraw from the conflict.

Apparently, Aidun has PMed GS and attempted to patch things up, which I aplaud.

As for BigFree's opinion on the matter, I do not happen to agree with BigFree's assessment that a team which has lost something around 30 units or so on our soil trying to defend us against an invasion counts as "cowardly". I do not hold it against them that they have fought and unfortunately lost a few key battles that make withdrawing the better part of valor right now. If there is any fault to their prosecution of the war, it is that while they have been brave, at times they have been foolish and GoW and ND have taken advantage of those occassions rather well.

I have expressed my opinion on that subject to Arrian, who I am sure may pass it on to his team.

On a brighter note, GS would like to have a discussion with members of our team in the near future. Aidun, if you could be in chat as much as possible for the next few days, that would certainly help.

[Arnelos]

From me to Darekill:

Darekill,

RP Team is interested in doing you a favor if you are willing to do us a favor. However, we do not consider voluntarily laying down our arms and handing control of our cities over to you without a fight to be you doing us a favor, but rather us doing you a favor. If you are unwilling to do us any favor in return for cities, then we have very little to discuss.

Should you change your mind and wish to provide some incentive for RP Team to agree to a peaceful settlement on Bob, you can let me know. In the meantime, however, RP Team has really nothing left to lose and has absolutely zero incentive to help teams that will not help them in return.

If you are truly worried about your future relationship with Glory of War and wish that RP Team could be useful to you in the future in dealing with any such difficulties, we remain interested, but we'll need to see something tangible.

Thank you.

- Arnelos