Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[Togas]

History Guy -- Inform Neu Dem that we signed a Defensive Alliance with Lux Invicta many turns ago, long before we were aware of the problems that Neu Dem and Lux were involved in.

Inform them that if they attack Lux, our alliance is activated. However, if Lux attacks them, we are not required to assist, nor will we.

Also inform them that this alliance ends in 2 turns and that we are seriously considering not renewing it.

Tell them that Togas is not pleased at all with their demand to be given territory. If they are truely interested in remaining our close friends, they will refrain for making any future demans.

Make no other comments about the border issues. We will stall on this issue for a while.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

I thought no one was to know we were researching Lit? I must be behind the times I can barely keep up with the two Dip threads ever since they closed acess to this site from work....

I will begin negotiating the new treaty first by discussing points of clarfication listed above, then I will rewrite over the weekend. When you say delay it - how long is that?

[jdjdjd]

Oh - point of order - advising ND of the Alliance is a violation of the Alliance. There is no reason ND needs to know. They are not trustworthy - nor is anyone else.

[Togas]

Originally posted by jdjdjd
Oh - point of order - advising ND of the Alliance is a violation of the Alliance. There is no reason ND needs to know. They are not trustworthy - nor is anyone else.

I should have posted this today.

Trip informed me in a chat today after lunch that ND Scouts are in his territory and camping out on his roads. He reports that ND swordsmen are moving in 2 groups ... north and south ... towards the two closest Lux cities. He fears immenent war. Was asking me what we could offer in defense of Lux. I told him nothing. We are unprepared for war at this time.

Trip inquired again about our alliance and I told him I'd make sure jdjdjd got back to him about it. He asked if we could just renew the old one, but I told him we have some new terms we need to discuss. I brought up that we wanted to make the alliance public to help promote peace. He agreed that we should and had no objections to us telling ND about it (and it seems, from ND's letters, that Lux has already told them so).

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

OK - Thanks

I sent Trip the Pm with the conditions you listed.

How long do you want to delay this?

Feel free to keep using my email.

[History Guy]

I sent this short note yesterday evening to Picahulu. Writing a more detailed response now.
-

Friend, before I send a larger response, hear this from me.

We ask you do not attack the Lux Invictans first, because aeons ago, our forefathers wrote an alliance pact with the Ottoman Sultan Trip that stated that if they were attacked, we would come to their defense. Needless to say this alliance supercedes our agreement with you, sorry as we are to say. Therefore, we do kindly ask you NOT to attack the Ottoman troops first, but to allow them to attack you, so that we may not have to come into the war on the side of the Ottomans. Please dispatch my message to the Sultan at all haste.

My friend, a more sizeable letter shall be arriving at your door soon.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador from Togas, King of Spain, Overlord of the Visigoth, Flattener of the Vandals

[Togas]

Results of a discussion with Neu Dem

I met in private chat with Borc, Darekill, Arne, and several other ND members (who remained silent) to discuss the ensuing war with Lux Invicta, and our problems. The following was explained to them:

-- We have a Defensive alliance that ends in 1 turn. If they attack Lux, we have to help Lux. This alliance supercedes our Non-Agg.
-- We, ultimately, understand why they want to destroy that Lux city. We urge them to limit the war to only that city.
-- We will not re-sign our agreement with Lux if ND is willing to wait until it ends before attacking.
-- We will not make demands or threats or such to them. Our interest is peace and cooperation. We have a good friendship with them now and want to continue that relationship.

After some discussion they explained that their interest is just that city. They do not want "a thousand year war" with Lux. They stated that they respect nations that are honest and trustworthy, and Lux is not honest or trustworthy, and as a result of all of the meddling and probing by Lux troops, they decided to act decisively.

They did not promise they would only take that city, but they seemed to imply this.

They will seriously consider our request to wait ONE TURN and then attack. They will poll it today.

On the settlement issue:

They stated that they just want 1 city on the silks. They want at least 1 city south of their capital. They claim to only have room for 8 cities while we have room for 12. I explained to them the following:

1) We are not making cities to the north, east, OR south of our capital, due to the jungle, desert, and ocean that surrounds Madrid. In the future it is likely that we will move our capital as Madrid is in a horrible spot. Spain, as a nation, exists to the west of Madrid.
2) We are settling west. We ask that they settle east. The area we have shown them has room for FIVE excellent city sites.
3) We want to consolidate our nation into an easily defendible area with natural borders. The jungle is an excellent border.
4) If it's the silk they want, we're willing to make a deal for the silk.
5) Giving up that city would be like Spain giving up Gibraltar to England. Perhaps this wasn't the best example, but it may clarify that we feel that we would be giving up a peace of a continuous land mass.
6) I asked "If you took over all of Lux's land, how many city sites would that give you?" They replied, "Enough, but we don't want to be caught in a thousand year war."
7) When they claimed how crowded it was up there and I replied, "I don't know, I haven't see the map up there" they said they might send us a map and that it would "shock us."

BOTTOM LINE: We will talk again in the future about settlement. The issue is undecided, but we are making our point and they are backing down somewhat. They have not promised that they will not go to war with Lux, but there is a good chance that they will take our concerns to heart and delay 1 turn so that we are not BOUND to defend Lux.

However, we may ultimately choose to help Lux. That remains undetermined. Do not reveal any of these negotiations or issues to anyone else at this time.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

Trip asked for a meeting with us for today at 6 PM EST. I did not get the PM until 8 PM EST. Did anyone else no of the meeting?

Also, I do not have the time to do this job justice and so if there is someone who has the time to take my place, please do....assuming Lord Togas is willing to allow it.

Furthermore, I think we are being suckered by ND and GOW,,, and can't stomach our diplomacy, anyway.

Thank you and Good Night Espana

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by jdjdjd
Trip asked for a meeting with us for today at 6 PM EST. I did not get the PM until 8 PM EST. Did anyone else no of the meeting?

Also, I do not have the time to do this job justice and so if there is someone who has the time to take my place, please do....assuming Lord Togas is willing to allow it.

Furthermore, I think we are being suckered by ND and GOW,,, and can't stomach our diplomacy, anyway.

Thank you and Good Night Espana

There were no less than 6-8 RP team members present, but a very good job was done to keep Togas as the one making almost all statements on behalf of the team and Dejon (at Togas' permission) making most of the rest.

GhengisFarb, Panzer32, and Donegeal were present for GoW

Trip, BigFurryMonster, and status-something? were there for Lux Invicta.

After all of the Lux people left around 7 p.m. EST, those left from GoW and RP met in a seperate passworded room (channel "#2") to discuss whether we could/should help Lux Invicta and how we might do so.

E_T has a log of the first chat and I'm sure someone has a log of the chat with GoW. I hope those can both be posted so that you and others may benefit from reading them and get up to date.

[History Guy]

A letter sent to Picahulu yesterday: My good friend Picahulu, please relay this message immediately to thy wise Sultan Borc of Neu Theban.

As Milord Togas King has now made perfectly clear to thy Lord, we have a pact with the Ottomans to defend them if they are attacked, and they to defend us if we are attacked. This alliance is something which is first and foremost, and thus supercedes, regretably, your own treaty. Thus, if ye were to attack the Ottoman city, we would be forced by our oath to attack you in response. Not so if this were a defensive war on thy part.

But hark! Good news, it seems, which may prevent such a terrible catastrophe! Indeed, it seems that in a mere turn the alliance will run out, the pact will end, and thus, we will be free of protecting the Ottomans, whom ye much despise for the wrongs they have done to ye. Therefore, if you wish to declare war, wait a turn before doing so, thus war with us will be, happily, averted.

Sultan Trip of the lands of Lux Invicta afar will most probably want to renew this pact, so as to save himself from your sword once again. However, if ye wish it, we shall not renew this pact.

However, do keep in mind the Warmongering Chinese to your north, ever a shadowy threat. They are ever vigilant, and will take the advantage that comes to them if they see it...

As for the border issue, regretable as it is, Milord Togas King would let ye know that he is mightily displeased by your government's demands for more land, and doth sayeth to me that if ye wish to be a friend to us, as ye are now, we ask of thee ne'er to ask as much in future times. These are his words. Please ruminate o'er it.

I await thy response, friend. [now, listen up...my ENTER key seems to be out today...] Here is the response... Dear Friends from Spain,

apologies for not giving an immediate answer, but i couldn't say anything before lux reaction is known.

They've declared war on us this turn, that's why your Protection Pact won't apply.

Best regards,
Picahulu, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica

[Hot Mustard]

This was in the email with the 1700BC save:

Originally emailed by GhengisFarb
Trip has to be the dumbest person on the planet. We
offered to declare war on ND this turn in return for
Camp Felix (the size 1 city Lux founded adjacent to
our capitol). Not only did they not accept our offer,
but Trip broke a second treaty by not giving us
Mysticism after they had agreed to.

That was the last straw and my team members gave me no
option but to declare war on Lux or face a vote of No
Confidence. My hands were tied and we declared war on
Lux.

This has NOTHING to do with Roleplay, it simply the
result of Trip's overindulgence in Magic Mushrooms.
If possible, your team might want to declare war on
Lux so as not to be the odd civ out on the continent.


Anyway we are off to kill "Mushroom Heads".

[jdjdjd]

Though mny grandfather was suffering from an illness of the brain - he did call this one moons ago - ND & GoW had agreed to destroy Lux and split it up.

[Togas]

GET SOME TRADE DEALS DONE!

Nuclear Winter & Ninot

The following things are available for immediate trade:

Vox: Contact with ND, Writing
GS: Contact with Lux,GoW,ND, Mysticism, Warrior Code

Prices:
Contact with ND -- 50g
Contact with Lux -- 35g
Contact with GoW -- 50g
Writing -- 100g (50g to GS)
Mysticism -- 40g
Warrior Code -- 40g

Get trading. Get negotiating. Spam them with trade offers! These prices are negotiable, if necessary.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

As Togas requested...

Vondrack and Nimitz,

I haven't seen Nimitz online in several days and Togas wanted someone to relay this more quickly, so I'm PMing both of you.

When handling the save this turn, a warrior of ours topped a mountaintop on our western shore and.... sighted coastal waters on the far side of the great Western sea.

Togas and I suspect that we may have sighted the continent of Legoland.

If so, it would be good to coordinate with you guys as to exactly what the geographical location of this sighting was and thus where it might be easiest for your boat to make a SAFE crossing from your continent to ours without the need to make a treacherous sea or ocean crossing.

If either Vondrack or Nimitz would meet me in chat at some point in the near future (likely Nimitz, he seems to open a chat window with me nearly every time I'm online ), we can talk about that along with recent developments in the The "War of Lux Invicta's Mass Suicide".

I think Nimitz told me that you guys are only a few turns away from your first galley, so it might be good to plan this in advance.

Look forward to chatting with you guys. The builders of Spain are feeling a little spooked by all of the burning cities to our north (though we're happy that we're the only ones not involved and are given extra time to prepare defenses while our expansion continues)... would be good to make contact with a civilization which shares our values of long-term stability and prosperity.

Let me know if any particular time is better for you guys and I'll see if Togas and I can both be there (most evenings EST work pretty well, but Togas is PST and typically only comes online later in the evening).

Thanks.

The hope here is that Legoland will jump at the opportunity to have a SAFE sea/ocean crossing and will choose to make first contact with Spain so that we get first crack at selling them technology and contacts as well as trading maps rather than the Warmongers or Neu Demogypticans to our north.

All of the stuff about Spain being a "builder civ" and having a mutual interest in long-term stability and prosperity is just trying to work the friendship angle in every time I talk with these guys. If we one day go and bash some heads (to quote the Civ2 Military Advisor), no problem with that either. It's just that when talking with Legoland, always remember that Spain is a builder civilization and we have always and always will have a goal of long-term stability, survival, and peaceful prosperity

[Arnelos]

Oh, and the title of the PM:

Legoland/RP: Land, ahoy!