Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[jdjdjd]

Togas- did you tell Trip we are no longer interested in Vox contact?
Do I need to advise BFM? Do we want to get anything for Writing? How does HBR fit into GoW trade?

[History Guy]

Here we are. Letter to Picahulu of Neu Theban...

Ah, my dear friend, Picahulu.

I first want to thank you for the most excellent dinner at your villa. When you come over to Madrid, I shall give you the same hospitality.

As it is, our government has recently made contact with a strange band of peoples who call themselves Persians, and they worship the 'Vox Controli', the One Voice, which they say comes out of the Big Mouth. Anyhow, they are quite an interesting bunch. Very interesting. Indeed, they all seem to be of one mind in accordance with one another...yes...as I said, it's all very interesting.

Anyway, we should like to know if your Sultan Borc would also like to speak to the One Voice? For small fee, we would be glad to introduce you to their ambassador, and you also could discuss the higher things with them...like the mysterious prophecies of the Vox Controli. So, how's about it? Will throw in some squid on the side, if you are interested. I'm sure the communications would be greatly rewarding and enlightening, as it is to all under the sun.

Now, about Mathematics...how's about either 75 gold, or 4 gold per turn for that little item? It's quite intriguing, we must say. The idea of counting always excited our chaps here, anyway. Would that be an acceptable price for it, do you think?

Finally, we'd dearly like to know what is happening where these Ottomans are concerned. From what we understand, they've been pressuring your government into a compromising situation. We're all very much interested in what occurs.

I await your generous and kind response.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador to Neu Demogyptica from Milord Togas King, Emperor of Spain, Overlord of the Visigoths, Flattener of the Vandals

[Togas]

jdjdjd -- I told Trip today that we worked out a deal with GoW for contact with Vox. He wasn't entirely pleased, of course, but such is life. I told him that we still wanted to sell or trade him writing. I offered it for 100g or 5gpt. He is thinking about it. Please get back to him and extend this offer to him in a very cordial fashion.

History Guy -- We have already agreed to trade Neu Dem Math for writing. Make sure they do not think that we are trying to change the deal.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Had a chat with Vondrack and Nimitz from Legoland...

They told me:

- They should have Map Making in 9 turns. They plan to have their galley out the next turn. They will send their first galley NE toward what they believe to be GoW's SW coast. They will then have the galley move south along the west coast of our continent until they contact us. They will look for our border color. We estimate it will take them roughly 6 turns or so to reach our city if it's a straight shot from GoW coast to ours (which it probably isn't, so expect it to take longer).
- They are VERY interested in the story of Lux having a warrior next to an undefended GoW capital near gamestart.
- We agree that Lux probably extracted some sort of alliance or agreement for future services out of GoW for not killing them off.
- Vondrack believes Lux has miscalculated by trying to go to war with ND so early. We agree on that.
- Vondrack thinks that anyone building a wonder this early is making a big mistake. We agree on that
- Legoland is looking at building perhaps the Great Lighthouse, as they may need it to reduce the chance of having to use suicide galleys (though that may be inevitable) to contact our continent.
- Legoland is even more worried about lagging techwise than before because of Vox-Lux connection
- Legoland would like to trade RP Team Map Making in exchange for Iron Working. I told Vondrack this sounded like a good deal.
- There are 2 bottle-neck areas of Legoland's continent
- Legoland's continent is made up of a rich northern grasslands where their cities are, a barren mountainous area to the north, and a huge jungle to the south that is hardly useful to them. There is a little bit of desert just south of the jungle on the very southern tip of their continent.
- Legoland only has a single luxury on their entire continent

I told them:

- Lux has a city right next to an ND city and they overlap on a critical tile with either a lux or resource (I don't remember which). This has made preventing a war more difficult. Lux obviously founded their city there on purpose.
- Lux has moved a warrior into ND territory right next to the ND capital, confirmed by all parties.
- GoW military seems to be relatively weak, with a number of their forces out scouting far ends of the continent in our territory our near Lux Invicta rather than at home and immediately useful in the event of war.
- ND is larger than Lux Invicta and seems to have a larger military. We doubt Lux's claim that ND has 6 units in the city near Lux, but we don't doubt that ND probably has a larger military and certainly more production than Lux.
- Lux and GoW claim that ND has linked up iron
- Lux had contact with Vox for a long time and were playing tech middle-man while pretending that the techs they were getting from Vox were their own research (while setting science rate very low and making money). Vondrack thought this was extremely clever of Lux Invicta.
- GoW now has contact with Vox and we do as well. GS has contact with Vox, so it seems only a matter of time until all civs are in contact with each other except Legoland... Legoland better get those galleys moving ASAP.
- RP Team would probably (I would think) want to help Legoland catch up in technology because of our technology alliance agreement... we'd like to work with the other non-warmonger civ on that tech alliance.
- GoW claims there is an island to their west (which would be north of Legoland?) and they are going to bee-line for Map Making in order to reach it.
- GoW has apparently started pre-building a wonder, which I personally think is stupid (Vondrack thinks it's absolutely suicidal and wonders if it's possible for GoW to be that dumb... doubts it). Vondrack and I both suspect that Great Lighthouse might be a possiblity to reach this possible island along with perhaps even sole ability to reach Legoland.
- We aren't doing so bad for luxuries (didn't name how many or anything)
- Our next city will be on the West coast on some silks. They should be able to see its borders if they travel a galley down the west coast.

---------------------------------

I told them I'd take their offer of Map Making for Iron Working to Togas. Togas... I'm assuming this is an awesome deal we'd love to take. However... just some thoughts from me... it may be in our interests (as I hinted) to get Legoland caught up in tech so they can participate in our agreed upon technology alliance and most favor trading agreement. Perhaps we could give Legoland some additional technology in return for some sort of slanted agreement for future relations or military capabilities in the future, etc. Just a thought...

[adaMada]

Routine Chat Report

Talked to Ghengis and Panzer for a very short time today. Ghengis wanted to confirm that we'd recieved contact with Vox, and I confirmed that Writing should be awaiting him (working under the assumption that the report was correct -- which it's always been before, so...). He asked if we'd started negotating with Vox yet, and I told him that we'd begun talking to them but hadn't made any deals yet. (Pretty obvious, since a full turn hasn't passed). One interesting thing that I noticed was that GoW seemed to have some negotations with ND going -- at one point in the poly chat a NDer (or someone who I assumed was one, anyway) said something about some GoW-ND chat to Ghengis, and Panzer later said something to Ghengis along the lines of "ND chat's still quiet -- nothing back from them." They seem to be negotating something, but who knows what -- might be important to take note of for the future.

Besides that, very routine chat, but I wanted to post so everyone knew what I'd told GoW.

-- adaMada

[Thud]

Every few days I get a feeling in my bones: Sr. Clemente is about to chat with Nimitz and find out everything I'm supposed to be finding out

As for whether or not we should bring Legoland up to date: I completely and totally agree. I would enthusiastically support this: it can only help us. Not only does it speed up our potential research, but anything that helps our ally helps us.

[jdjdjd]

Sorry - I have a feeling ND & GoW are discussing the destruction of Lux.

To make this pertinent - I sent BFM & Trip the Writing for money offer.

[Aidun]

Destruction of lux IS in favor of GoW. Keep in mind that they still must have a deal with Lux for Lux's mercy at the dawn of time. Crushing Lux means deal aside. Coclusion: very logical to destroy. Problem: lack of military forces. ND getting tired with lux, wants to declare war to Lux: problem solved: those two are stronger than GoW alone.

Now if I was ND, I'd not use my whole military wower to destroy lux, but let GoW hit down the warriors and try to get the cities by myself. If I have done so, I declare war to GoW, let RP know nothing of it and kick away Gow with the remaining and superior troops.

ND WAS not likely to go to war, but IF they go to war, they are the winner in every scenario. I hope they don't realize this.

Aidun Cian

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Thud
Every few days I get a feeling in my bones: Sr. Clemente is about to chat with Nimitz and find out everything I'm supposed to be finding out

As a DIA member running for President, you should join the #DIAHQ channel more often If you don't have the password, PM Nimitz for it. It's an amusing password

[Togas]

Originally posted by Togas
Please move all discussion to the Diplomacy: Analysis & Discussion thread.

AHEM!

Let's please save this thread for ONLY Reports, Instructions, PMs, and Updates.

--Togas

[Togas]

jdjdjd -- Please contact Lux Invicta. Reoffer to them Writing at 100g or 5gpt.

Our alliance runs out in 2 turns. You are to begin renegotiating this alliance. There is no urgency, take your time on this matter. Use the old alliance and make changes as necessary.

New terms/concerns to address:

1) The alliance is no longer secret.
2) If Lux and ND go to war due to Lux's own hostile actions, our participation is at our discression.
3) If either nation in the alliance declares war without first consulting the ally (at least 2 turns in advance), then either ally may withdraw from the alliance.
4) This is a defensive alliance. No ally is required to join the other ally should one declare war on a 3rd nation.
5) Allies may not act in any hostile mannor towords the other ally, which includes trade and tech embargos.

--Togas

[Togas]

I have sent the following PM to DeepO of GS as GodKing could not respond:

DeepO,

This message is in response to the PM you sent to GodKing:

We have aquired Writing and are researching Literature, as GodKing informed you. We have only sold Writing to one other civilization, but are presenting negotiating with others for the sale of writing.

We now have contact with Vox, and have negotiated contact with your people. We hope to have acheived Contact with you by the next time we get the save.

We think it is wise to agree to research different knowledge so that we have something to give each other. We have experimented with future trade deals here on our own continent amongst our neighbors and ran into all sorts of struggle and pitfalls. It seems that as time changes and relationships change, future tech suggested trades become "promises" to one party and "mere suggestions" to another. Or (as we experienced with Lux) one party simply doesn't research AT ALL, they trade for the tech they promised to research (in exchange for the promise of our tech) and then pretend that they researched it themselves.

We think that it's best, for now, to just try to stay on different paths so that when the knowledge comes, each team can be sure to have something worth trading around. Hearing that you wish to research Philosophy or Code of Laws sounds like an admirable plan and we support it. We would be willing to pledge not to research those knowledges to allow you to have the first opportunity to sell them.

War is brewing in the north of our continent. Thankfully, we are not a part of it ... yet. We hope to stay neutral. There is great friction between Neu Dem and Lux Invicta over the founding of two rival cities a mere 2 tiles apart. Both sides claim that war is inevitable. We have tried to mediate and will continue to do so. We fear that the Vultures of War (GoW) will swoop in and feast on the carnage that is caused, taking in a great deal of money, territory, and technology in the process.

It would be unfair of us to suggest who you should trade with and who you should not, but I will share with you my personal experience with the other 3 nations in our land:

Lux Invicata -- make very reasonable offers, but are sly like a fox. Their scheme was only recently uncovered. For the longest time they did barely funded any research of their own, and lived merely as a knowledge middle-man, with a secret connection to Vox as their ace in the hole. GoW found this out and destroyed it by "stealing" contact with Vox and then selling it to us.

Glory of War -- very difficult to deal with, but surprisingly adept businessmen. If you can stand their boasts, threats, and insults (if you don't do what they want), you can often walk away with a decent bargain from these war merchants.

Neu Dem -- fair, but very quiet. They rarely communicate, but when they do, they are quite pleasant to deal with. Their lack of initiative has left them somewhat behind the rest. They take a while to get back to you.

These are my personal opinions. I hope that they will be of some use to you as your people venture forth into our very complex world.

Lastly, I would like to say that we look forward to future deals with your people. I am now searching my land for the best possible replacement for GodKing. Your representative will be one of our finest.

--Togas

[Ninot]

I am the new ambassador to GS. As such, I have received my first PM from DeepO. Here it is

Dear Togas and Ninot,

Welcome, new ambassador! I hope our relation will be as amicable as the one with GodKing. I'm not sure exactly how informed you are of what has been said between us, in Gathering Storm it is custom to keep a log of all diplomatic messages, so they don't get lost, nor violated. If you would be missing previous communication, I'm sure I can copy and paste everthing for you. In order to keep this tradition (and to avoid any legal 'poly problems), I want to declare you can quote all my PMs within this game in your forum, please declare the same and I can continue with this fine custom here.

Now, on to the reply of last message (which is why I'm sending this to Togas as well):

There was one misunderstanding in last message, in that GodKing didn't tell us before that you were researching literature, but it seemed an obvious choice for you. I'm glad that indeed, this is the case. I wish you good luck in trading it to other nations, and hope you don't get crossed again.

It pleases us a lot that if everything goes well, we'll be able to trade with you in-game very soon, breaking both Vox's and Lux's middleman position. This certainly makes researching mapmaking less urgent, so for the moment, we probably won't go down that path.

Researching different branches makes a lot of sense, and knowing we could probably get a deal between our two teams if we would go for the most expensive current techs is good, I'm sure that once we'll be able to start, we'll take this into account. There have been rumours of Code of Laws lately, as it is the most expensive tech after writing, and therefore probably has a high trade value. But, nothing definite yet, so I'll keep you informed once we made up our minds.

We have certainly a lot of sympathy towards your diplomatic problems, as we have experienced similar things with Vox ourselves. I can't 100% blame it on a bad attitude towards us, but the least I can say is that Vox has thus far not been very reliable, somewhat ignorant even of possible implications of their actions. As a result of this, we're currently working on what we call a codex, in which we describe what we expect from our diplomatic relations and what others can expect from us. Such diplomatic protocols seem trivial and self-explaining, but at least one team we know does not keep the same standards as we do.

It's pretty obvious stuff, like that diplomatic messages are secret, deals are only deals once they are ratified, and all deals need to be kept, even if the situation changes drastically thus disadvantaging one team. Renegotiations are possible, but unilateral decision of stopping a deal mid-term are not. We are very strict in this, so we can only hope that by enforcing it within our team, others will do the same towards us.

I hope, that by the time true tech negotiations can take place between our nations, you will have enough faith in us that we will never double-cross anyone within this game, or will at least try to the fullest possible extent not to do that. This does ask for precise agreements, of course, and for some formalized way of accepting deals, but those are exactly the points which we're currently perfecting in the Codex.

Also many thanks on your views on the situation on your continent, it helps a lot. Especially the situation with Lux is very interesting, as it is something we wouldn't expect from them. Sure, GoW and Vox are opportunistic by nature, but Lux...

It's certainly a noble goal to try to mediate between ND and Lux, not because either of them would not lose by a war (let them fight if they want to), but because of what it can do to world balance. The Vultures of War are certainly circling the skies already, and they are nasty and ferocious creatures. The world will need a lot of diplomatic effort to secure them into last position

Kind regards,
DeepO of Gathering Storm

[adaMada]

Been continuing my conversations with UnOrthO -- it sounds like he will be our ambassador. He just told me something very interesting about the ND-Lux situation -- he's saying that GoW's negotating with both ND and Lux, but that neither are making offers large enough for GoW to get involved. He says they're trying to get them both to hike the price up and bid against each other, but neither are high enough to make it worth their while right now...

Just a quick update.

-- adaMada

[History Guy]

A very very interesting message, my lords, carried by fast courier into the grubby paws of my servant, Gastronome Neecap, who delivered it in turn to me. Senor Picahulu sounds strangely tense to me, as if Neu Theban itself is very much bothered from all sides. I think they are really afraid that they will be swallowed up, and so, I fear, they shall be.

Note that they have contact with Vox Controli and that they wish to know what dealings we have had with Lux Invicta...
--

Dear History Guy,

i am delighted you enjoyed your stay in Arabia and we hope to see you again soon in our beautiful lands.

We enjoyed our meeting with Senor Togas as well, although we didn't manage to create a contract regarding borders. I suppose you agree that this topic is very important in order to save friendship and good relations between our nations. That's why we must not stop negotiations.

Friend History Guy, i'm afraid i have to tell you that my people are very unhappy because your nation has founded Saragossa so close to our capital. If Spain should decide to found more cities around our capital i fear that my people may stop to believe in our bond, which is strong and valuable and shouldn't be endangered by such questions.

My people think that it would be quite embarassing if we wouldn't be allowed to settle south of our capital. Think of the corruption and waste in our cities if we are forced to settle far away from Neu Theben! I'm sure you wouldn't like Madrid to be the border city to the north as well.

In addition, our scouts reported that the southern part of the continent seems to be even larger than the north - and there are three nations who have to share the northern part, whereas the South is only occupied by Spain!

That's why we demand to get at least a part of our south. We're working on a detailed map, and would appreciate any proposal from you, which is fair to both of us.

I'm absolutely sure we're going to solve this problem, but we both have to be ready to accept a compromise.

We also appreciate your help to make contact with Vox Controli, although we're not interested to buy because we're in diplomatic contact with them since the beginning and already planned a meeting with them, far in the north of our homelands.

You've also asked for news regarding Vox Controli. I've just received a letter from them. They demand us - in an impudent tone - to move our scout away from unoccupied territory, which they consider to be theirs for reasons only known to Lux Invicta.

I'm sure you're also interested what they claimed about your nation: They treat that Lux Invicta will fight against us in an alliance with your nation, the Spanish, if we refuse to remove our scout! Of course we consider this to be an empty treat, as we still beleive in our friendship and - of course - in our NAP, nevertheless we would appreciate to be informed whether Lux Invicta tries to build up an alliance with you. We strongly advise not to coorperate with them because they have treated us since the beginning, and might betray you too. And - of course, Spain would be in an akward situation if Lux declares war on us.

History Guy, i have to find an end.
I hope to hear from you again soon, if you feel we should meet each other again to discuss further contracts, please let me know i'd be delighted to travel to Madrid again soon.

Best regards,
Picahulu, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica
--

As I have said, interesting letter.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron
Ambassador to Neu Theban