Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[History Guy]

I posted this an hour ago...so why didn't the blasted thread bump?!!

[Hot Mustard]

Edit: Oops, wrong thread for "Commentary". Original post now here .

[Togas]

History Guy -- Inform Neu Dem that we will meet with them for a chat at the specified time (2/5 7pm GMT) ... so long as you can make that time. I will take my lunch during that time and should be able to assist in the chat.

We will send a preliminary border proposal to them a few days before the chat. We ask that they also send us border proposal. Get them to agree on a date for the border proposal exchange ... 2/3? 2/4?

We will be happy to trade with them for mathematics once they finish researching it.

We will try to help to keep the peace and can assure them that we will not assist Lux should they try to harm Neu Dem. We hope that GoW never has to get involved, because they would be the only nation to profit from a war between ND & Lux.

Ask if they would like to purchase Mysticsm from us.

--Togas

[History Guy]

Right, sir. I will see what can be done.

However, as you can see, they say that as of now they have nothing to give us for Mysticism.

As for the post, for reasons stipulated in the 'Warrants Thread', I may resign in future.

Thank you, Milord, all power to you.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

[jdjdjd]

Arnelos,

Thank you - and forget it - as usual I lost my cool - its that Hot Latin Blood in my veins.

Now on to affairs of state: BFM at Lux greatly appreciated my email to Panzer.

His response to the news of no trade:

Hi jdjdjd !

How disappointing! We just settled things with GoW (thanks again for the PM to them - it helped!) and agreed to be able to trade with you. I talked to your boss Togas about this, and he explained the situation. GoW is offering an amount of gold plus the retreat of their warrior, he said. That might be a better deal for you, however, remember that GoW sent that warrior there in the first place. I don't think the retreat of it should be part of the deal, but that is entirely up to you.

Togas said that his preference is to trade with us, and we can do business if things with GoW go astray after all. If this is the case, we can talk more about trading contact with Vox...

Do you have MSN Messenger? It will help to get in closer contact. My address: $%$^^&&& .

BFM

I took out his address - for his privacy.

I am surprised he responded so politely. Now, GoW would never have responded this way. I still don't trust Trip, but for now Lux should be a trade partner of high standing.

Thank you to Togas for speaking with him.

My apologies to Togas, Arnelos, and to all, for overeacting. I am protective of my negotiations.

[Togas]

Update: A few days ago Trip send me the MSN messanger info for himself and BFM. I added them both to my list. BFM contacted me last night and we chatted a little bit about the trade situation and my confusion over what, exactly, their deal was with GoW. I still don't have a solid answer, as BFM ultimately told me that their renegotiated deal was a secret. I asked him to send a PM to jdjdjd with their current status and told him a little about why we were tied up with GoW and the horseback riding trade.

I highly recommend making yourself available to your country and chatting with their members informally or formally as much as possible. You don't need to reveal very much. Mostly what we're doing right now is building relationships with the other teams.

--Togas

[Togas]

jdjdjd -- Additionally, I need you to push and poke a bit at Lux to see if we can work out a trade for their contact with Vox. Get them to at least propose a price to us, we'll negotiate from there.

--Togas

[Togas]

Ghengis Farb enclosed the following message when he emailed us the save:

I am sorry, and this is by no means meant to be a
hostile act, but the mapping of the continent is an
incredibly valuable resource, both strategically and
for trade after Mapmaking.

We have waited several turns for a definite trade deal
on Writing and there simply hasn't been an offer. The
minute a finalized deal is agreed on we will move our
warriors out but as we moved them north in good faith
and have lost those turns of exploration our team must
make some progress either in mapped area or new technology.

I have forwarded this message to adaMada who wrote me back and informed me that the only sticking point in the negotiations is the "no trade for X turns" clause. He is waiting for their reply. The deal should be done shortly.

They WILL NOT receive writing, however, until they've left our countryside. If they want to stall by moving further in, they only harm themselves.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

What an impatient jackass! We just had a good (I thought) team-to-team chat, where it was made very clear that we would have Writing shortly. Of course GF is simply stalling to either explore more and/or piss us off again - I sincerely think his aim is to always keep us mad, with the hope we'll be the first to declare war - so that they can "take the high road".

I'll say it again - we should not enter or even discuss agreements with GF/GoW unless we can make them immediately. Otherwise, we are just giving him fuel for his warmonger psychology games.

Not to mention that he is, once again, using improper communication channels that Togas has told him twice to not do. Just more evidence of his "let's piss them off until they blow" approach.

[adaMada]

This is the message I just sent to Togas, which includes the message I've sent to Panzer. As I've said, Ghengis might be blowing steam -- that's happened before -- and I only sent them an acceptance of their #3 offer last night, though that was mainly because I was waiting on them to get back to me about one part of the no-retrading clause. Anyway, it is annoying, but I think they'll probably back off -- Ghengis actually used the words "do not have an offer." I'm betting he doesn't realize/hasn't been told they got an offer last night -- typical GoW diplogaffe -- and I don't think they'll stick to their guns over this issue. They COULD be serious -- it goes hand in hand with a PM I got from Panzer while resolving the noretrade issue -- and if they are, they're probably trying to get a better deal out of the situation. I don't think they've got ground to stand on, however -- everything I've accepted has been something they've offered, and if they try to blame delay on us, we can point out that at least half (and probably more) of the delay has been us waiting on replies from them.

Frankly, I don't think they'll stick to their guns on the issue -- they've no ground to stand on. As long as they don't make us angry, what can they do? We're basically agreeing to things they've offered us over the past few days...

-- adaMada

Togas,
Just sent the following PM to Panzer about the issue. It bsaically puts the pressure on him to either call it a mistake or explain what's going on. If he does turn arond and say that the message's contents stand, then I'll hit him with all the tougher stuff -- no writing till you leave and etc. Until then, no reason to even mention it -- let's make him admit that it's official policy before we rip em for it . It's also very possible that Ghengis either wasn't informed or missed that a deal was in the works, and it could simply be a lack of communication within their team (it's happened before).

-- adaMada

Dear Panzer,
Togas has just told me that Ghengis dropped him an odd note in the most recent save -- something about your warrior returning to our lands or whatnot as you've "waited for several turns and there has not been an offer". I must admit, I was rather surprised at this, as I sent an offer last night -- accepting condition three and your original offer for a fifteen turn no-tech trade agreement. Assuming the PM came through all right, I've gotta assume that this is simply a mistake. I understand that both teams obviously need time to discuss before making a further deal, but I feel that we are negotiating, and that we have made an offer. I’m sure it’s probably a mistake, or perhaps overlapping events, but I wanted to shoot you a quick PM and try to clarify the whole issue before anything gets out of hand .

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Just recieved the following PM from Panzer. It looks good to me -- Togas, anything wrong with it or can I accept? Their turn is before ours, so we should be able to see their warrior starting to back out before we give 'em writing.

What should I tell them about what we're researching?

-- adaMada

adaMada,

It seems that in the chaos, that your PM got forgot about (perhaps because a new page was started after its posting). We have also recieved messages from Togas asking whether you have been active. I now see that you have been waiting for us... Therefore (wording changed to reflect Roleplay having discovered writing):

The Glory of War accepts this deal. The points are:
-GoW Gives: Horseback riding, warrior removal, and 60 gold, all now.
-Roleplay Gives: Writing, now.
-Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition.

This deal is accepted by the GoW. When Roleplay accepts it, it will be final.

About the 15 turn non-trading:
I assume this starts at 1950bc, since that is the curent turn. I calculate that 15 turns from that is 1500bc, since the switch from 40 year turns to 25 year turns happens at 1750bc. If I am wrong, please contact me. Thank you.

Also, question: what tech is Roleplay researching now? This is so the Glory of War can chose a different tech and then we can trade.

Panzer32,
Foreign Affairs Consul the Glory of War

[Togas]

Originally posted by adaMada
Anything wrong with it or can I accept? Their turn is before ours, so we should be able to see their warrior starting to back out before we give 'em writing.

What should I tell them about what we're researching?

CHANGE this to the following:

-GoW Gives: Horseback riding now. GoW begins warrior removal.

-Roleplay Gives: Writing for 60g AFTER the removal of the GoW warriors

-Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition.

Also, question: what tech is Roleplay researching now?

We will consider exchanging this information as well as cooperation on tech research AFTER GoW warriors have left our territory. Until they leave, we will not discuss such matters at all.

--Togas

[Togas]

Definition: Removal of BOTH warriors = moving them north of our northernmost city, Saragossa.

--Togas

[adaMada]

Ok -- I'll write a PM and try to get the deal changed as such. To be honest, it's not something I'm looking forward to writing, or even something I know how I'm going to write yet. It's a tough case to make -- they offered to give us Horseback before we had writing, and it'll be very hard for us to play the "we don't trust you" line if they bring that up. My Lord's instructions are my command, and I'll get to work on it ASAP, but I wanted to go ahead and indicate that I'm not exactly sure how to approch the issue while still coming across as reasonable. Having said all of that, I'll do my best, and don't mean to say it can't be done -- I just wanted to go ahead and point out that it's not the easiest case to make.

-- adaMada

[Togas]

Originally posted by adaMada
Having said all of that, I'll do my best, and don't mean to say it can't be done -- I just wanted to go ahead and point out that it's not the easiest case to make.

This was our deal. This is not a change. They said they would leave. They must leave. I'm not going to give them writing and then watch them continue to explore afterwards. Do not feel sorry for GoW in the slightest, or feel like they don't "deserve" such skepticism, or feel that we're suddenly telling them that we don't trust them. We've never trusted them. Before or after deal. Which is why these things must be spelled out explicitly in very neutral language.

Include this clarification in very neutral language. Don't make a big deal out of it. Remember, that our goal has always been to get them out of our country and THEY AGREE to leave, and their leaving is a condition upon which this whole deal is founded upon.

--Togas