Gathering Storm - correspondence & foreign affairs

[vondrack]

What about this: we tell them they are out of luck with saltpeter on Stormia (and hold none on Bob, as far as we can tell... I would be careful about the wording, as they may have units stationed over the saltpeter near Barcelona - I would use the "have no saltpeter in your cultural borders or close to them" formulation). We tell them they shut down their gp research now and start withdrawing from Bob immediately, saving cash. Once their last unit leaves Bob, we trade them gunpowder and 20 turns of saltpeter for half of their "savings" (or some set reasonable price) and a guarantee they will not return to Bob within 25 turns. I would leave their second luxury out of the equation, as we do not really need it ATM... gold would be better.

What do you think?

[vondrack]

One more point - GS would have to guarantee they will not provide gp to RP (as that would be obviously hurting our allies).

[redstar1]

Sounds fair enough to me

[Tiberius]

Sounds good to me.
Anyway, giving GP to them is impossible now. They are still at war with ND and GoW and we can't help the enemies of our allies, even if on the long term they may become our friends. I believe they will understand that as long as we are part of the alliance, we can't really help them.
We can tell them that they don't have SP, we can promise to trade GP and SP when the war is over, but until then no trades, no gifts, nothing.

[ZargonX]

I would approve telling them they are out of luck with their saltpeter holdings, but I am solidly against giving them GP until 2 conditions are met:

1)No GS presence on Bob
2)RP is eliminated on Bob.

This could only be superceded by a 3rd case, which would be if GoW/ND land on Estonia.

[vondrack]

I understand #1 (and 100% agree), Z - but why #2?

If GS leaves Bob, making peace with GoW/ND (i.e.: breaking their alliance with RP), and agrees to not trade gunpowder to RP, is there any reason to wait for the RP elimination on Bob?

I am not pushing anything, just asking about the reasoning...

[redstar1]

Do we really care if they trade gunpowder to RP? From our point of view, any presence that RP has, or maintains on Bob, is advantageous to us in that it restricts the options ND and GOW have. This is a long term plus point but a plus point nonetheless.

Why don't we offer to trade GP to RP ourselves once our bit is done and GS is out of Bob, maybe we can get some nice gold for it

[ZargonX]

Well, it was mostly so they wouldn't trade it to RP. I mean, as this game has demonstrated, just because someone says they won't do something, doesn't mean they won't Though, at this point, RP doesn't have any access to saltpeter either, do they? Either way, it's a diplomatic thing. I can't imagine our allies would be too happy with us trading with the enemy, even if it were indirectly

[lmtoops]

Let's not forget our alliance with GoW/ND. Although we are not a war with RP, our allies are. So we cannot give RP our GP, in good faith.

Now we can trade GP to GS (after peace, GS off Bob), but put not trading restrictions. So if they give it to RP, so be it. It would help us a little...it would drain a few more resources from our allies, but in the end RP is toast.

Actally, this probably doesn't matter. I would think that part of the Peace deal would be the removal of RP from Bob. On the other hand (I think this is my 6th hand ), RP may wand to fight to the end. In any case, I say do not restrict GS on trading GP (but do not encourage it). If our allies complain, we can claim ignorance or stupidity, "we apoligize for our lapse in negotiations, Legoland failed to put a restriction on trading." .

[redstar1]

..but as I understand it they are our 'allies' because GS is on Bob. Once GS leave I would understand that we are free to continue our own diplomatic path. I would imagine however that RP would not last long once GS are out of the war. Nor may they last too long on Stormia either....

[vondrack]

OK, I believe that whatever we decide to respond with, it is not going to affect our current turn, so I am going to play the turn now.

[redstar1]

but wait, i was about to suggest a sneak attack on GOW. With GS on our side together we can conquer the world!!!!!!

muhahahaa

[vondrack]

Uh... you meant to throw ALL of our THIRTEEN KNIGHTS at them?

[redstar1]

Only one of our invincible knights of DOOM should be enough

[vondrack]

OK, we should respond somehow to the GS inquiry. Here is my attempt, considering what has been posted since yesterday in our forum. I believe there is no hurry, so we can discuss this a bit before sending it to GS:

Cort Haus,

After discussing your inquiry in the Senate of Legolad, we believe there is no harm in telling you that there is no saltpeter on Stormia and that there is no saltpeter inside or close to cultural borders of the territory you and RP currently hold on Bob.

As for trading gunpowder to you... we are sorry but that cannot be done until there is a peace treaty signed between you and GoW/ND. We hope you understand we cannot provide a key military tech to you, as long as you remain enemies of our current allies (even if you intend to withdraw from the war).

However, you have got our word that once the war between you and GoW/ND formally ends, we will trade gunpowder to you at a fair price - and not only that. If you agree to not influence the war on Bob (if there still is one at that time, of course), we will trade you one of our excess saltpeters.

We hope this guarantee will be enough for you to start negotiating a peace treaty with GoW/ND.

Respectfully,
vondrack