Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[Kloreep]

We should send an official Theology offer to RP. 200 gold + NDA + self-copying no-sistine?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
We should send an official Theology offer to RP. 200 gold + NDA + self-copying no-sistine?

I suggest we wait for them to contact us. Here is a log of my chat with BigFree, their FAM, last night. Read it, it is quite interesting...

Session Start: Fri Jun 06 01:29:23 2003
Session Ident: BigFree
Session Ident: BigFree (~bigfree1@c-66-229-58-234.we.client2.attbi.com)
BigFree: hey vond can you chat a bit about the PTWDG?
vondrack: yep
vondrack: though - keep in mind, please, I am in no official position in Lego now
BigFree: I understand
BigFree: Vox's situation looks bad but not hopeless to me; what's your take?
vondrack: well, I agree
vondrack: bad, but hopefully not hopless
vondrack: hopeless
vondrack: I haven't heard from BetaHound for some time
vondrack: so I am lacking a good idea about their shape
vondrack: they will need to reclaim that iron, that's for sure
BigFree: RP is discussing giving them Iron
BigFree: it's 50/50
vondrack: well, anything that slows GS down and gives them troubles, helps you, us, and everybody else...
BigFree: howmuch more help can Lego give though and expect Vox to survive
vondrack: we would probably give them that iron, if having the possibility
vondrack: but we will not be able to until Astronomy
vondrack: so all we can do is provide them with money
BigFree: do you look at it at some point as thowing money at a problem that won't be solved?
vondrack: you mean - like "wasting" money?
BigFree: right
vondrack: well... could very well be the case at this very moment. But as I said - anything that gives troubles to GS is good for us (and you, too)
vondrack: so it is not really "wasting" money
BigFree: If RP gave Vox Iron, would Lego be willing to go public with their support towards Vox and RP?
vondrack: what would we (and anybody else, for that matter) gain by going public?
BigFree: Maybe even sign an Alliance against GS?
BigFree: It would make GS think twice about landing on Bob or Legoland
vondrack: nah... I do not believe GS would attempt to land on Bob or Lego
vondrack: not in the foreseeable future
BigFree: they wouldn't wnat to spread theri troops out to far with the chance that troops could come to them from many directions.
vondrack: they need to get rid of Voxes first
BigFree: right, but after that is what we are worried about
vondrack: yeah, right... after that - so we better try hard there is no "after that"
vondrack: and that is best done privately, I believe
BigFree: Would Lego be willing to Embargo GS?
BigFree: not that you trade much anyways
vondrack: yes, right... not that we would be trading anything...
vondrack: I would have to ask my teammates about this, I really do not dare to gauge the team opinion
vondrack: with the foolish GS approach to trading
vondrack: it is actually pretty easy to embargo them
BigFree: true
BigFree: Since RP's involvement would be for the good of all teams, is ther any deals that lego could cut of RP's behalf that would help to compensate for our willingsness to go to war with GS over this Iron issue?
vondrack: hm... do you have anything specific in mind?
BigFree: like cheaper tech, gold, anything else you can offer
BigFree: we need to mass produce untis to really have a good chance at helping Vox
vondrack: that is always a possibility, yes (cheaper techs & gold)
vondrack: I am sorry if I sound a bit... vague
BigFree: good, maybe you can ask you team to submit a proposal that would do so if we agree to give Vox Iron and take the brunt of GS'es unhappinesss.
vondrack: but the thing is that we are impatiently waiting for the save
BigFree: we just finnished
BigFree: what are you guys waiting for?
vondrack: because we have switched our gov and will now see how we are doing under Rep
BigFree: ah, nice!
vondrack: we will be much wiser then
BigFree: yes you will
BigFree: were you despot before?
vondrack: yes
BigFree: or just Monarchy
BigFree: ok
BigFree: My team made a bad decison to go to Monarchy long before me
vondrack: I believe that I can say we WILL join the anti-GS coalition (as if we were not part of it already)
vondrack: just that I am not sure if we need to go public with that
BigFree: no, not really
BigFree: but if you can help RP out, that would be enough
vondrack: was switching to Mon a bad idea?
BigFree: no, but not switching to Republic is
vondrack: I see
vondrack: well, BF... let's try this
BigFree: They were unaware of the no weariness in MP
vondrack: have your FAM dept come up with some sort of an idea regarding Lego aid to RP
vondrack: I do not think we would rush to throw techs and gold at you without being prompted
BigFree: LOL
vondrack: but if you send us a clear proposal
vondrack: we will sure do our best
vondrack: as a matter of fact
vondrack: there was a post by our current Prez today
vondrack: asking for strengthening ties with you
vondrack: this would be a great way to do so
vondrack: as you correctly pointed out few days ago
vondrack: "cheapness" is relative
vondrack: so asking for "cheap" techs will get us nowhere
vondrack: you need to state the price
BigFree: cool ; besides Theology what other techs do you have and what are you researching now, if you can say?
vondrack: ATM, we are ready to trade Theology - that is the only tech we have available for trade
vondrack: I mean - we do not have any other discovered yet
vondrack: researching Education
vondrack: no idea on ETA
vondrack: will be wiser once we get the save
vondrack: most probably, we will go for Astronomy then
vondrack: but that also depends on how our Theo deals go
BigFree: ok, thanks for the info. we are waiting on recieving Chiv from GoW as you are too.
vondrack: if we fail to reasonably "secure" Sistine's, we may need to go for Bach's, delaying Astronomy
vondrack: Bach's = Music Theory
BigFree: Ihate those techs
vondrack: which would delay Astronomy
vondrack: Astronomy = possibility to trade resources/luxuries
vondrack: so, we are not sure yet
vondrack: too many variables
BigFree: I would rathe have Copernicus(Astronomy) than Bachs
vondrack:
vondrack: not us
vondrack: we lack luxuries
vondrack: happiness problems
vondrack: we need wonders that help to keep the pop happy
BigFree: we can trade luxes to you after you get Astronomy, so that might change things for you.
vondrack: hehe... but that is just replacing one problem with another - by "trading" for other luxuries, we need to spend resources (gold, techs...)
vondrack: which is basically the same as using the lux slider
BigFree: right, it waht ever offer's the better situation at the time
vondrack: so, while we do look forward to being able to trade luxuries, we know we must not rely on the lux trade too much
BigFree: understandable
BigFree: we will get back to you with a proposal on the aid package
vondrack: we'll see... anyway, we will be happy to support your involvement in the Vox-GS war
vondrack: yes, great
BigFree: thnaks for the chat vond
vondrack: my pleasure
BigFree: RP and Lego can be great friends
vondrack: LoL
vondrack: we just need to keep Togas aside...
BigFree: we can have tea parties
BigFree: OK
BigFree: LOL
vondrack: right, I am off to bed now
vondrack: g'night!
BigFree: good night, sleep well
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: bye
Session Close: Fri Jun 06 02:00:36 2003

[vondrack]

Now, I can feel a GOLDEN CHANCE here. We can make RPers much friendlier towards us, while having them fight (read: fight for us), and while having them hamper GS progress. Isn't it just splendid? Two greatest rivals of ours would engage in a war...

I believe I am right when I interpret the chat with BigFree as "RPers seriously consider starting their own war against GS, quite independent of the Voxian effort." I admit it is a good idea from their side, one that shows even RPers have guts - for them, it is much better to hit GS sooner, rather than later (ATM, they have an ally that can provide them with a beachhead, troops etc.). And it is quite natural that RPers would become GS' target at one moment or another.

So, I suggest we wait for RPers' "aid package request". Then, let's be generous... as long as we can get the no-Sistine clause, let's agree to just about anything. 50g and no-Sistine? Uh oh, well ya know, it's so damn cheap... but what the hell, we want to help you! Have it for 50g and no-Sistine. I really believe we should be quite generous now - the generosity is what will keep our potential enemies warring each other instead of going after us...

[Tiberius]

Actually I was thinking to give them Theology for 0 gold + no-Sistine + no-Bach's. I mean, while 50 gold doesn't mean too much for us (2 barb camps) giving a tech for free has a much stronger psychological effect than charging them for it, even with a low sum.

We could even agree on a no-Copernicus clause, since we don't really want to build it.

That's for now. We will be much wiser after seing how things are going for is in Republic.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Actually I was thinking to give them Theology for 0 gold + no-Sistine + no-Bach's. I mean, while 50 gold doesn't mean too much for us (2 barb camps) giving a tech for free has a much stronger psychological effect than charging them for it, even with a low sum.

Agreed. 50 gold is an expendable amount and providing a tech for free would make us look much better. Though I would still wait for RPers to come up with their own "request" - who knows, maybe we would be giving too much... or, we can make a much better impression by eventually asking even less than what they will wish to pay.

Also, I would not push for Bach's too much - I consider it quite unlikely that another team would research Music Theory. GS will be having troubles enough with their wars, RPers just as well, GoW agreed to waive it, Voxes are in no position to even try, and ND... well, that is the only unknown...

Once we secure Sistine's (IF we secure it, that is), we will be free to build Bach's first - considering our position in the world research, especially in the Edu branch of the tech tree, I believe we would have no problems getting Bach's.

We could even agree on a no-Copernicus clause, since we don't really want to build it.

I would not mention it, unless they ask for it. Unless we are able to "secure" the wonders we want, we shall better have some backup ones to build in case someone beats us to the "key" ones (with wars going on, there will always be a possibility and we have already waived Leo's).

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack

Though I would still wait for RPers to come up with their own "request" - who knows, maybe we would be giving too much... or, we can make a much better impression by eventually asking even less than what they will wish to pay.

Agreed. Let them make the first move. I was merely speculating about what would be acceptable for us.


re: Copernicus

I would not mention it, unless they ask for it.

Sure.

[Kloreep]

I just talked with Aidun on IRC; Nimitz, Aidun says he sent you a PM about two months ago, but didn't receive a reply (he also said his mailbox has been full occassionally since then). He also said he was looking to intensify contact between Lego and Spain.

I wonder if they're actually going to send us anything... perhaps we should remind them about Theo.

[Nimitz]

Well what was the PM about, if know that I could say if I got it and read it. Also I've already started reving up contact with RP talked to Bigfree their FAM 3 days ago. I've been on farly often to talk in fact I have talked to vox and in passing some of the other teams.

[Nimitz]

The chat was not what we wanted, RP is not helping Vox directly it seem they tricked Vox and are trying to trick us, but this is what we have come to expect from Rp. Anyways without further adu here the chat.

[19:00] Nimitz> the people
[19:00] * Sharpe has joined #RP-Lego
[19:00] Sharpe> Hi!
[19:00] Nimitz> so whats up
[19:01] Aidun> Hi Nimitz and Kloreep
[19:01] * Nimitz sets mode: +k whyarewehere
[19:01] Aidun> Is Sharp a member of your team?
[19:02] Nimitz> yes
[19:02] Kloreep> I have to go soon, BTW...
[19:02] Nimitz> kloreep said you had some quetions for me
[19:02] Aidun> Well, then hi to Sharp too
[19:02] Aidun> Yes I have
[19:02] Aidun> about the aid
[19:02] Nimitz> yes
[19:03] Aidun> We have a few problems
[19:03] Nimitz> you've pinned it down some what
[19:03] Nimitz> ok what are they
[19:03] Aidun> let me copy it from the chat with Kloreep
[19:04] Nimitz> ok go for it
[19:04] Aidun> can you tell me what your team is willing to give us for aid, because we are heavily debating what we will ask Legoland
[19:04] Nimitz> is this pasted or you asking me
[19:05] Aidun> this was posted and now I'm asking you
[19:05] Nimitz> well this is a harder question
[19:06] * Kloreep is now known as Kloreep-AFK
[19:06] Nimitz> we were kinda waiting for you request
[19:07] Nimitz> what do you have need of money
[19:07] Nimitz> tehc
[19:07] Nimitz> moral support
[19:07] Aidun> The reason why we are debating what we will aSk is because of the other problem, which I will also literally copy from the chat with Kloreep
[19:08] Aidun> Aidun> The problem we also have is that you guys are sitting behind the scenes, while we are the ones that will be attacked. We prefer not to engage in war with GS.
[19:09] Nimitz> yes most would if they could
[19:09] Nimitz> infact we have stayed out of sight
[19:10] Kloreep-AFK> Have to go; bye!
[19:10] Aidun> Therefor, our price would be quite high, very much higher than just the price of iron
[19:10] Aidun> bye
[19:10] Nimitz> bye
[19:10] Sharpe> bye
[19:10] * Kloreep-AFK has quit IRC (Quit: )
[19:11] Nimitz> well if things go the way Vox hopes they'll have there Iron back
[19:12] Nimitz> any ways so your having trouble setting the right price
[19:12] Aidun> We bet that things will not go as Vox hopes, we have info that the Voxian army is calling up children and old people to fight in the war: they are almost exhausted
[19:13] Nimitz> GS has to be hurting too
[19:14] Aidun> yes, but their defences are still intact
[19:14] Nimitz> so are Voxes
[19:14] Aidun> have you seen them?
[19:14] Nimitz> no but I know there have been no attacks on the Vox cities
[19:15] Aidun> well, I haven't seen it, but from what I heard two days ago, is that Vox is using its citydefences to fight
[19:16] Nimitz> ok well lets get buiness
[19:16] Nimitz> let me ask you some thing
[19:17] Nimitz> have you heared any thing on GoW
[19:17] Aidun> What should I have heard?
[19:18] Nimitz> I don't know some on my team are asking questions
[19:19] Nimitz> ok back to vox
[19:19] Aidun> what are they like?
[19:19] Aidun> the questions?
[19:20] Nimitz> your wanting us to give you enough money fund your war with GS
[19:21] Nimitz> not much just wondering what there up to
[19:21] Nimitz> they saw a few of them in a privet chat room planning
[19:21] Nimitz> they don't know what
[19:22] Aidun> Well, not to fund our war
[19:22] Aidun> To fund our risk to get in war with GS'
[19:23] Nimitz> what you think GS could build enough transports to hurt you
[19:23] Nimitz> ???
[19:24] Aidun> They already have these transports, from what I've heard, at least five
[19:25] Aidun> and they have the lighthouse so they can safely travel over sea
[19:26] Nimitz> well so how much are think you need to be safe
[19:27] * Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Jun 09 19:27:31 2003

Session Start: Mon Jun 09 19:27:51 2003
Session Ident: #RP-Lego
[19:27] * Now talking in #RP-Lego
[19:28] Nimitz> got disconnected
[19:28] Aidun> I saw that
[19:28] Aidun> did you got the last things I said to you?
[19:28] Nimitz> no
[19:28] Aidun> you did
[19:29] Aidun> Aidun> They already have these transports, from what I've heard, at least five
[19:29] Aidun> Aidun> and they have the lighthouse so they can safely travel over sea
[19:29] Aidun> Nimitz> well so how much are think you need to be safe
[19:29] Nimitz> was it after the how mch
[19:30] Nimitz> ok so as said
[19:30] Aidun> say a tech and additional gold per turn?
[19:31] Nimitz> such as?
[19:32] Aidun> we know that you have theology, but do you also have chivalry?
[19:32] Nimitz> I'll check
[19:33] Nimitz> not quite we are working on it
[19:34] Aidun> how many turns are left before you have it?
[19:34] Nimitz> Checking
[19:35] Nimitz> soon but how soon is a quetion
[19:35] Nimitz> we change govs and we need to work all the chages out
[19:35] * Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Jun 09 19:35:54 2003

Session Start: Mon Jun 09 19:39:20 2003
Session Ident: #RP-Lego
[19:39] * Now talking in #RP-Lego
[19:39] Nimitz2> back
[19:39] Aidun> problems?
[19:39] Sharpe> err, there are 2 Nimitzs here
[19:39] Nimitz2> I'm on a Dail up
[19:40] Nimitz2> it got unstable had to reconnect
[19:40] Nimitz2> I can kill the other
[19:40] Aidun> I'll copy the last phrases
[19:40] Aidun> Aidun> we know that you have theology, but do you also have chivalry?
[19:40] Aidun> Nimitz> I'll check
[19:40] Aidun> Nimitz> not quite we are working on it
[19:40] Aidun> Aidun> how many turns are left before you have it?
[19:40] Aidun> Nimitz> Checking
[19:40] Aidun> Nimitz> soon but how soon is a quetion
[19:40] Aidun> Aidun> Can you be a little bit more exact?
[19:41] -> *nickserv* ghost Nimitz 322757
[19:41] * Nimitz has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Nimitz2)))
[19:41] Nimitz2> there
[19:41] Nimitz2> just a sec
[19:43] Nimitz2> were 11 at turn but it lible to extend to 15 do to the changes
[19:44] Aidun> you had to raise the luxury slider?
[19:44] Sharpe> Aidun, we just changed to Republic as you have probably seen so we haven't quite figured out what luxuries/gold/tech settings we are using
[19:46] Aidun> very well, I will report that you will have chiv in 15 turns
[19:46] Nimitz2> yes so don't be supprised if the info changes
[19:46] Aidun> Do you want to give us additional Gpt?
[19:46] Sharpe> if that changes we will let you know
[19:47] Aidun> ok
[19:47] Aidun> But do you want to give us additional Gpt?
[19:47] Nimitz2> um lets see we prefer doing lump sume
[19:47] Nimitz2> sums
[19:47] Aidun> can you make a proposal?
[19:48] Nimitz2> I can try but nothing I say is official it has to be voted on
[19:48] Aidun> Same to me, the King has to decide
[19:50] Sharpe> Don't forget , our slider discussion also affects our gold per turn situation
[19:50] Aidun> yes, I understand, I don't mind, I am but interested in what you are willing to give
[19:51] Nimitz2> I think we could spare a 150 gold lump sum but that could and may change with our current schation
[19:51] Nimitz2> situation
[19:51] Nimitz2> we may be able to do more or les
[19:51] Nimitz2> s
[19:52] Aidun> ok I will take all into account
[19:52] Nimitz2> say for now 75
[19:52] Aidun> I will return with this to the King and await his reply
[19:52] Nimitz2> then we can deside from there
[19:54] Sharpe> Are you talking to anyone else about attacking GS - wondering if we are going to get multiple requests of aid
[19:54] Sharpe> aside from Vox of course
[19:56] Aidun> No, we are in discussion with noone other than you and again, our intention is not to attack GS. IF they attack us, alas, then we have war, but we would at first like to keep the peace with GS
[20:03] Sharpe> oh so this is a "just in case" situation then?
[20:03] Sharpe> sorry for hanging you there, Nimitz was trying to help me with something on mIRC
[20:06] Aidun> ok
[20:06] Aidun> it is a just in case situation.
[20:08] Aidun> But I have to go now. Perhaps BigFree will send you an offer from us for aid today, otherwise tomorrow.
[20:08] Sharpe> k
[20:08] Nimitz2> bye
[20:08] Sharpe> bye
[20:09] Aidun> bye

[Sharpe]

I was in the chat too and I agree with Nimitz's assessment.

RP seems to be talking now about a potential GS attack on them (which is very unlikely given the war with Vox even if they do give iron to Vox).

It is highly possible that this is another RP trap where they talk and do nothing and could use this to tell GS that we are willing to support against GS. Something similar happened in the Lux war from what we have been told they had the defensive pact with Lux but told ND that they wouldn't honour it if Lux attacked and ND should try to provoke Lux to attack - this is typical of RP's style...

I wonder if we should consider turning the tables on RP by informing GS that RP contacted us about providing support against GS. The only problem would be how to avoid GS questions about supporting Vox.

Based on this latest chat, we really need to find out what GoW is doing in 3 turns ASAP.

[ZargonX]

After chatting with MZ, Bigfree wanted a chat also! Phew!

BigFree> ZargonX, can you chat right now?
ZargonX> sure!
BigFree> cool
BigFree> hvae you heard form your ambassador as to his talks with ours?
BigFree> PTWDG
ZargonX> yes, I have
ZargonX> read through the logs earlier
BigFree> ok, I want to make a counter offer now, it is something that RP feels strongly about because of what we are putting at risjk here, while Lego get's to keep it's nose clean, so to speak.
ZargonX> go ahead
BigFree> Angering GS cannot be taken lightly
BigFree> we wnat Theology now and Chiv when you get it for us giving Vox Iron.
ZargonX> well, I'll have to take it to the team, of course
ZargonX> has the iron trade gone through already?
BigFree> oue own reasearching will have to take a backseat when GS decalres war on us
BigFree> no it hasn't
BigFree> we are 1-2 turns from hooking it up
ZargonX> and you feel positive that GS will attempt an invasion of Bob in retribution?
BigFree> most definately
BigFree> they have easy access across the sea tiles
BigFree> due to the Light House
BigFree> they have made it clear in the public frorum that they would decalre war on us
ZargonX> true
BigFree> they feel that Vox is evil, and that any who help them are with the "axis of Evil"
ZargonX> heh
ZargonX> ok, can you PM a draft of the proposal so I can put it up for review?
BigFree> we promise to help conceal Lego's involvement also
BigFree> sure
ZargonX> then we can get back to you aSAP
BigFree> good
ZargonX> great!
BigFree> thanks for the caht
ZargonX> I'll let you know as soon as we've had a chance to talk about it
ZargonX> no problem!
BigFree> cool
BigFree> bye
ZargonX> later!

[ZargonX]

And there officialy offer from Bigfree:

Hey ZargonX

Referencing our chat; Role Play offers to trade Iron to Vox while Lego gives Role Play Theology now and Chivarly on the turn it is available to Lego.

BigFree

[Nimitz]

Hey did they nt get my PM I crrected my self on the chivalry tech oh they are wanting a chat and I want atleast two people to back me up when we do this or a official reply saying we are nolonger doing the deal at voxes request.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Nimitz
Hey did they nt get my PM I crrected my self on the chivalry tech oh they are wanting a chat and I want atleast two people to back me up when we do this or a official reply saying we are nolonger doing the deal at voxes request.

Nimitz, I believe it would be enough to PM RPers that we have asked Voxes to express their (dis)interest in obtaining iron from RPers - and that so far, we haven't been asked to go ahead with the deal.

As providing Voxes with RPers' iron was the ONLY thing RPers offered (they expressly ruled out military actions against GS), I would suggest telling RPers we will get back to them once Voxes ask us. It makes no sense to discuss the deal any further until Voxes say they want us to proceed with the deal.

[lmtoops]

This is probably another case of RPers playing mind games. I would rather sit this game out.