Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[Nimitz]

Well do to the Galley the RPers are wanting to deal so they've offered this.

(togas) How about we give you math, writing, mysticism for mapmaking & your world map.

Now I know the WM is out of the question but I think we should offer a counter so as to keep good relationships with them.

Here are their techs:
bronze
masonry
alphabet
pottery
wheel
warrior code
ceremonial burial
iron
math
writing
myticism
literature(soon)
horseback riding

So what your guys opinion on this and how to handle it?

[Tiberius]

They were supposed not to know that we have a galley, weren't they?

[ZargonX]

Well, if they've found out about the galley, we'll just have to employ some of the stalling tactics they love so much. As discussed in our master plans, we can't make contact until the GLib is ready. If they do know for a fact that the galley is sailing, we can just tell them that it was built on the far side of our continent (true) and it will take a while to get around (also true). We just don't have to mention that we're going the long way...

As for trading maps, we've all agreed that's out of the question. I'm not adverse to trading techs with them, but which techs is the more important question...

[Tiberius]

I've just seen it: what kind of deal is that? They want to give us writing in exchange for MM ?!! When did they play civ3 last time??

AFAIK we have mysticism, too; or not?

Anyway, by the time we'll have met, the situation will be totally different, so let's not speculate too much about what to trade.

[vondrack]

RPers do know we have a galley sailing out (they were told so), but they were specifically informed it would take 30-35 turns to get to the crossing point, so there is no problem.

As far as I know, this deal is of very low attractivity to us, since:

1) we will never ever give out our world map. NEVER EVER!!!
2) we already have Writing (how could we have MM without Writing, he? ) and Mysticism (from a hut)
3) we believe we will get all the techs through the GLib

OTOH, we do want RPers to miss Map Making (and thus any naval abilities) for as long as possible - that would help both ourselves and Luxes. So my counter would be to offer them Mathematics for Map Making (making sure they realize we will not be able to actually exchange the techs earlier than in 30-35 turns). The research cost of Map Making is 12, Mathematics is 8. If we present it as "we do not need Mysticism & Writing, since we already have those, so let's omit those and the map and make the rest a deal.", they might think of how great a deal they are making. Especially, if we drop something like "yeah, we know that the research costs are not the same, but we kinda owe you a bit for all that intelligence plus Map Making is perhaps not a key tech for you, so let's make it this way."

BTW, are you, guys, shocked as much as I am by how great we are doing research-wise? We are only two techs behind the RPers!!! (if they do not hide some techs). That's freaking great!

[lmtoops]

I've never had goody huts so plentiful and so packed with goodies. Those huts are what kept us at our current research pace.

[Nimitz]

Yes the deal also gave us some much needed sold evidence on where we are tech wise compared to the world.

[Nimitz]

The deal with the RPers is off they will soon get MM from GoW.

[Sharpe]

The deal with the RPers is off they will soon get MM from GoW.

Hmm, this is a bit concerning !!

With GoW getting MM, it means that they are likely going to explore Mystery Isle (assuming that it is the same island)... why else would they be researching Map Making? Probably they are looking for more areas to colonize (or a possible escape route from ND).

Any suggestions?

We can either: (I am assuming that there is something there on Mystery Isle)

a) Land a unit and hope to get off before GoW comes on
b) Sail around it and hope we avoid their galley
c) Ignore mystery isle

If a) is chosen , we have to decide what unit to explore with. It is very likely that GoW would use a horseman for exploration as that would allow them to explore it faster. That could cause problems if they decide to attack. Another danger would be if we put a merc there, they could attack just to hope they trigger our golden age prematurely.

A related danger is that is that it is our nearest neighbours that will have Map Making - making it likely that one or both may be coming to search for us to make contact or something else worse...

[ZargonX]

Hmmm... I think this increases the importance of finding out the true nature of mystery isle all the more, as well as giving us some motivation to consider a floating blockade at key coastal choke-points...

[lmtoops]

Floating Blockade works fine with the AI, but it's more complicated with real people.

Lets not go over board in changing our plans. Maybe we could do some "smart" exploration with our galley; whenever it get's to the island.

[vondrack]

I have had an interesting conversation with Hot_Enamel (GoW) today. I am including the full chat log FYI...

[13:07] Hot_Enamel: GoW news for you
[13:07] vondrack: oh?
[13:07] Hot_Enamel: We have almost finished mapmaking
[13:07] vondrack: hmmm... congrats!
[13:07] Hot_Enamel: And have some galley prebuilds
[13:08] vondrack: when will your first galley sail out?
[13:08] Hot_Enamel: 3-4 rounds I think
[13:08] vondrack: good
[13:08] vondrack: any objectives set?
[13:08] Hot_Enamel: Meet you guys
[13:08] vondrack: that would be great
[13:08] vondrack: any idea how to get to us?
[13:09] Hot_Enamel: Although we suspect we cant do it withour your help
[13:09] Hot_Enamel: without
[13:09] vondrack: how come?
[13:09] vondrack: suicide galleys?
[13:09] Hot_Enamel: You have MM right ? I read that somewhere
[13:09] vondrack: yes
[13:09] vondrack: just one galley though
[13:10] Hot_Enamel: two suicide galleys from each team may reach each other
[13:10] vondrack: hmmm, the problem is that we have only one galley and can't afford to lose it ATM
[13:10] vondrack: as another one is nowhere close to completion
[13:11] Hot_Enamel: We have other problems on our continent as well
[13:11] vondrack: is there any area off your coast that would promise a shallow crossing?
[13:11] vondrack: yeah, heard something...
[13:11] vondrack: how's ND treating you?
[13:11] Hot_Enamel: We dont know yet...we have not explored west/east coasts.
[13:12] Hot_Enamel: Hmmm
[13:12] Hot_Enamel: We are having some dificulties
[13:12] Hot_Enamel: They have many swords
[13:12] Hot_Enamel: Who are fresh after Lux invasion
[13:13] vondrack: they are getting more and more self-assured, aren't they?
[13:13] Hot_Enamel: Yes....but they have the swords to back it up as well
[13:13] vondrack: do you have iron to counter their swords with ones of your own?
[13:13] Hot_Enamel: We have no offensive
[13:13] vondrack: hmmm, that's bad
[13:13] Hot_Enamel: Iron !!
[13:14] Hot_Enamel: Thats our other problem...no iron.
[13:14] vondrack: oops
[13:14] vondrack: you seem to be quite at their mercy
[13:15] Hot_Enamel: We are militaristic and can pump out veteren horsemen if we need to.
[13:15] Hot_Enamel: It would be a stalemate
[13:15] vondrack: are they aware of that?
[13:15] Hot_Enamel: We try not to talk about war with them
[13:16] vondrack: I see
[13:16] Hot_Enamel: With Lux gone, there is good land for both of us
[13:16] Hot_Enamel: We are both Rexing
[13:16] Hot_Enamel: And staying out of each others way
[13:16] Hot_Enamel: We tried to get the Lux Iron, but ND beat us
[13:17] vondrack: but you assume you will have to fight them sooner or later, right?
[13:17] Hot_Enamel: Most likely
[13:17] Hot_Enamel: Their land is not good.
[13:18] Hot_Enamel: South of them is JUNGLE, and lots of it.
[13:18] vondrack: are you lacking anything important, but iron? like money, techs... dunno...
[13:18] vondrack: re: land
[13:18] vondrack: same applies to us here
[13:18] vondrack: lots of jungle south of us
[13:18] Hot_Enamel: They are prefering to expand North where we are
[13:18] vondrack: bastards...
[13:18] Hot_Enamel: We would do the same
[13:18] vondrack: bastards...
[13:18] vondrack:
[13:19] vondrack: I know
[13:19] Hot_Enamel: Jungle or grassland
[13:19] vondrack: it is easy to j/k, when we are alone
[13:19] Hot_Enamel: Yes
[13:19] vondrack: well, what help could we be to you?
[13:19] vondrack: would you need money?
[13:19] Hot_Enamel: We are fine regarding tech/gold
[13:19] vondrack: that's just about the only thing we have enough of
[13:19] vondrack: yeah, I guessed so
[13:20] vondrack: we must already be quite behind in techs
[13:20] Hot_Enamel: Most likely...but its not hard to catch up.
[13:21] Hot_Enamel: Vox & GS were behind...we all made a bit of money from them...but now they are equal
[13:21] vondrack: hmmm... seems we will have to cash some more barbs here
[13:21] Hot_Enamel:
[13:21] vondrack: well, as for the galley meeting
[13:22] vondrack: how far your continent extends to the West?
[13:22] vondrack: 'cause that's something we have no idea about
[13:22] vondrack: errr, our West, so your East
[13:22] Hot_Enamel: Ahhhhhhh
[13:22] Hot_Enamel: I was confused
[13:22] vondrack: sorry
[13:23] Hot_Enamel: It juts out in the south
[13:23] Hot_Enamel: Let me recheck
[13:25] vondrack: the reason for asking is that we believe there is at least 10-12 tiles of water between our North-East and your South-West coast
[13:26] vondrack: so unless you can spot any mid-way island to help jump across that space
[13:26] vondrack: even suicide galleys might be unable to meet
[13:27] Hot_Enamel: I just check our latest maps
[13:27] Hot_Enamel: I dont see any shallows
[13:27] vondrack: damn
[13:27] vondrack: nor in the East, nor in the West?
[13:28] Hot_Enamel: The south-west & North-West corners jut out by 3-4 tiles
[13:28] Hot_Enamel: The centre West is concave... ) like this
[13:29] vondrack: I see
[13:29] Hot_Enamel: It is difficult
[13:29] Hot_Enamel: We have not mapped our entire continent
[13:29] Hot_Enamel: RP banished our exploring warriors from the south
[13:30] Hot_Enamel: ND owns the west
[13:30] vondrack: yeah... quite unfriendly continent, this Bob, isn't it?
[13:30] Hot_Enamel: We own the NorthWest
[13:30] Hot_Enamel: ++ Good land were we are ++
[13:30] Hot_Enamel: Unfortunately, ND wants it too
[13:31] vondrack: well, where does Bob end in the East?
[13:31] Hot_Enamel: It looks like this )(
[13:31] vondrack: I see
[13:31] vondrack: our island ends well before the left edge of the minimap
[13:32] vondrack: so we suspect that there may be another quite fairly sized landmass to the West of it
[13:32] Hot_Enamel: The Vox GS continent is 1 tile from our East Coast
[13:32] vondrack: as the ocean would be just unbelieveably huge if there was nothing there
[13:32] vondrack: any idea how wide it is?
[13:33] Hot_Enamel: Vox-GS ? Nope..we know nothing
[13:33] vondrack: hmmm... looking at our merged minimap
[13:33] Hot_Enamel: With MM comes map trading though
[13:33] vondrack: we traded with all teams
[13:33] vondrack: it seems that
[13:33] Hot_Enamel: You traded what ?
[13:33] Hot_Enamel: Your map ?
[13:33] vondrack: minimaps
[13:34] Hot_Enamel: Yep
[13:34] vondrack: a gap between the Vox/GS continent and our Westernmost coast is only slightly bigger, if not smaller that the gap between your SW and our NE coast
[13:35] Hot_Enamel: It looks like you are going to be stuck there for a while
[13:35] vondrack: it would be a tought decision where to try eastwards or westwards...
[13:35] vondrack: yes, I fear so...
[13:35] Hot_Enamel: Well ...11.30pm...gotta go
[13:35] vondrack: ok, cya!
[13:36] Hot_Enamel: Bye
[13:36] vondrack: bye
[13:36] * Hot_Enamel has quit IRC (Quit: )

I believe we shall try to explore that suspected Mystery Isle crossing pathway before GoW has a chance to get there (they will be sailing from the Northern coast of Bob, which will take them at least 3-4 more turns), then quickly withdraw and let them spend efforts on getting to us. They may very well decide to give a higher priority to REXing or building troops... either way, I believe there is a fair chance we will be able to stay isolated for a little while.

[Tiberius]

Well done, Radek! A lot of stuff we found out, while giving away very little info, and that without actually lying

[lmtoops]

Very good information!!

I have a clearer understanding of the other civs.

More importantly, we know we have 3-4 turns to explore. It would be nice to have a unit to drop off (barb$ or another hut), but I don't think we have the time or resources to utilize.

[ZargonX]

Hmm... at this point, a little war between GoW and ND might not be so bad for us. It would delay their explorations into our part of the world for a while at least, and let us continue on with our plans unhindered. Of course, if ND crushes GoW, that could be a much bigger problem for us later on...