Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[vondrack]

Originally posted by lmtoops
Very good information!!

I have a clearer understanding of the other civs.

More importantly, we know we have 3-4 turns to explore. It would be nice to have a unit to drop off (barb$ or another hut), but I don't think we have the time or resources to utilize.

Actually, since their galley will be sailing from the Northern coast of Bob, we will have even more time to explore ourselves (like 6-7, I'd say). Not enough to drop a unit of ours there, but enough to get a clear picture of the area.

[Sharpe]

Ah interesting news!

Although we can't take everything at face value, it sounds like they are indeed very worried about ND and its 6 swords. Admittedly ND might want to seriously think about eliminating their 2nd front (i.e. GoW) to be able to almost fully concentrate on south and RP. Right now, Lux's razing strategy and leaving ND's swords unbloody may make it tempting for ND to strike at GoW soon, especially with GoW lacking iron.

We should also be reminded that GoW is now the only Industrious civ on the Bob continent - neither RP nor ND are industrious though both are religious (which may cause its own problems for GoW ). Perhaps an opportunity for us if GoW is eliminated or driven off of Bob .

It is too bad in a sense that there is a sea gap (albeit a tiny one) between us and GoW as it prevents us from trading any of our excess iron - and Astronomy is a long way off - perhaps we can convince GoW to help us get some of the techs that we may need to close quickly on Astronomy so that we can sell them our probable excess iron (perhaps in addition to the help we may get from the GLib).

Their only other alternatives for iron are:
a) trading with ND for it (not likely if ND plans to war on them especially as GoW requires iron for their powerful unique Rider unit)
b) sea trading with RP through the coast for it - would require both RP and GoW to build harbours
c) perhaps trading with Vox or GS for it - would work immediately only if they were completely connected by coastal squares to them and would also require both to build harbours.
d) They get an iron on Mystery isle (which is what they are probably hoping for) still will require harbours on their mainland and Mystery isle
e) That another iron expires and a new one pops up in their territory

d - is what GoW is probably most hoping for
b - is the next most likely unless there are no sea squares between the Vox/GS continent and Bob
a - is among the least likely unless GoW pays a LOT for it and very unlikely when they discover chivalry

Despite the fact that we don't entirely trust them, it is in our best interests to make sure that they survive. Especially without iron, with ND likely having more cities (albeit perhaps in poorer locations ?), a statemate is unlikely in the long run. However with iron and if GoW can make it with a decent number of cities when they obtain chivalry and have a supply of iron and horses, they may be able to hold their own against ND - although the cheap Ansars will make it difficult.

re: sending a unit to Mystery isle - can we afford to send the Farmerville archer up there? It might be well worth it to do so. Conan is in the area of Farmerville for now and MercG is moving back there. Marky Merc or Gaul helping out might be an idea as they aren't too far away. While we wouldn't necessarily have a unit IN Farmerville for a couple of turns we do have several units in the vicinity of Farmerville and the new settler/merc are heading that way too (though for other reasons). Regardless, it might be an idea to have a unit on standby to be able to send over to Mystery Isle very soon after we are contacted by GoW.

re: meeting up with GoW
It is clear that either they are duping us or they have no clue how close we actually are - due to their talk about suicide galleys.

Vondrack , I could swear that you were trying to convince them that they might meet up with us easier via their east and our west Don't think they bought it if that was the case, but nice try if that is what you were thinking...

I am a little concerned that they said that their objective was to meet us - either things are that desperate already or they have more nefarious plans (or both). It is also interesting that they never mentioned that "island" to the west of them - curious... I suspect that they will head west and look for iron, on the island and us in that order of priority.

If they and ND are REXing, ND may well now have more cities than us and GoW may reach our current city count soon (but we will pull ahead again with our new cities of course ).

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Sharpe
I am a little concerned that they said that their objective was to meet us - either things are that desperate already or they have more nefarious plans (or both). It is also interesting that they never mentioned that "island" to the west of them - curious... I suspect that they will head west and look for iron, on the island and us in that order of priority.

I agree with your analysis, though not on the nefarious part; if they are feeling pressure from being next to ND, they won't want to invade and devote both offensive units (and extra shields and maintenance for ships!) to invading Legoland.

The only thing I think we should worry about is GoW settling on unclaimed land (unclaimed in game, of course; we know that the Legoland is our divine right ).

[Tiberius]

I don't think the GoW is after us. The only possibility this to happen is if they had made a deal with the ND to share our land between them. I find this very improbable at this point, as they know nothing about our continent. Besides, they are busy REXing.

They want to meet us to: (some guesses)

1. explore new lands, hoping there is room for them near an unsettled iron. They may have a hunch that Lux had fled in our direction, and that would be a sign that there is free, unsettled land and a searoute to get here; they are hoping to put a foothold on our "island" (do you really hope Radek that somebody will believe us, Radek? ) for a possible future expansion war

2. trade techs and/or resources/luxuries with us

3. find an ally on the long run against ND

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Their only other alternatives for iron are:
d) They get an iron on Mystery isle (which is what they are probably hoping for) still will require harbours on their mainland and Mystery isle

d - is what GoW is probably most hoping for

Well, unless Hot_Enamel plain lied to me, they know nothing about our Mystery Isle, so they can hardly hope for getting iron there... and as I can see no reason for him to lie in this matter, I really believe they do not know. Either that island was just a misinformation from RPers (could be!), or the island is actually located North off GoW's coast.

Originally posted by Sharpe
Despite the fact that we don't entirely trust them, it is in our best interests to make sure that they survive.

I definitely agree. Helping them to pose as much of a problem to ND is in our interest. If we get a spare iron, I would go to great lengths to help them make use of it.

Originally posted by Sharpe
re: sending a unit to Mystery isle - can we afford to send the Farmerville archer up there?

Basically, we might send a unit there, I think... but getting anyone to the position on our NE shore would take quite some time (unless we use a unit from Jackson, which I would not recommend), so I would prefer exploring with our galley first... we'll see if it is worth the hassle.

Originally posted by Sharpe
re: meeting up with GoW
It is clear that either they are duping us or they have no clue how close we actually are - due to their talk about suicide galleys.

I somehow believe that Hot_Enamel was not lying... if he was, then he was doing it very well. We have to consider this possibility, too, but I lean toward considering his info genuine.

Originally posted by Sharpe
Vondrack , I could swear that you were trying to convince them that they might meet up with us easier via their east and our west Don't think they bought it if that was the case, but nice try if that is what you were thinking...

I was trying to confuse them as much as possible...

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
they are hoping to put a foothold on our "island" (do you really hope Radek that somebody will believe us, Radek?

ya know... being a non-native speaker... I sometimes mix expressions up... not really getting the differences

Besides... it's just a matter of perspective...

[Tiberius]

GoW - SH*T

I've just got an email from GF:

Hey, I can't contact anyone with the Lego team for
some reason.

We (GoW) are prepared to offer the following deal:

We can see the coast of another continent to our west.
If we make first contact we will give you all the
techs your team doesn't already have. We will also
negotiate a split of any gold we receive for selling
contact to you with the other civs.

In return we ask 100 gold and that you research
Construction and give it to us the turn you complete
it.

We have a deal to get Monotheism from Lux (their
Scientific so get immediately upon entering the next
age) and are trading Construction to them for it. We
would give you Monotheism the turn after you give us
Construction (the minute we get it) and then we make a
deal where you research Feudalism after which we
research Chivalry.

[vondrack]

Well, I guess, the question now is not if we want to accept it, but how to politely reject this offer. We would have our research freedom restricted so tightly that we'd be effectively unable to follow our own goals...

First: I would suggest telling them that we consider it impossible they could see our coast, because we have (almost exclusively) mountains on our NE coast and can see not a single bit of their continent (that is true, as we know that what we - and they - can see is an island between the two continents) and that we would suggest arranging any deals only after making actual ingame contact.

Second: I would indicate that 100 gold for all the techs we are missing would be an acceptable deal (and it would really be, even if as a backup plan for O2E - we have money enough and more coming from barb camps).

Third: any future tech cooperation would be negotiated only after the ingame contact is made and techs/money exchanged. We may consider it (very) disadvantageous to spend our beakers on Construction if lacking other key techs (like Monarchy/Republic)... if they wish to pursue this part of the deal, we should ask for the list of the techs they can currently offer - to see how far we can get with their tech-help.

My impression is that they are hesitating a bit after my conversation with Hot_Enamel and wish to ensure that any efforts spent on travelling to us would be worth it.

I suggest we pose as difficult to trade with, perhaps even "bluffing", hoping for lopsided deals... getting them pissed off, deciding like "let those bloody Legos get to us on their own, if they wish to be that difficult" would be exactly the thing we'd like to happen. If not, we'd still lose nothing, as we would be getting yet another backup plan for O2E for cheap.

Note: keep in mind that the most they can send at us is 2 horses - even if they really wanted to be difficult. Two horses are no threat to us... everywhere we have got something they could damage, we also have roads allowing us to strike back fast.

Other than this, I would proceed as planned before. Even if we make contacts and have to develop cover-ups for our wonder builds, I am still quite certain we will be able to succeed. Plus, the island between us and them (which is what they can see) will slow their expansion down, since they would settle it before proceeding towards our mainland. Besides, I consider it very unlikely that they would expand outside Bob, since they are currently competing for good land with ND there.

In the meantime, I will check with Trip, if the deal GoW are mentioning is real.

[lmtoops]

Wow, we seem to be way behind in research. This is a good deal if we do not get the GL. Maybe we can hold them off (and other civs) until that time.

We need to know when Lux will discover Monotheism (how many turns?).

[ZargonX]

Well, I would estimate we have at least 7-10 turns of "wiggle" room here before we would have the possibility of actually encountering one another. I also beleive that they are probably seeing an island in between, and not our lands. Of course, depending on the size and quality of those islands, we may also want to stake a claim on them. I would hold off on any response for a few delay turns, as well as until we can confirm with Trip about what they've said.

[Kloreep]

We should also ask Lux if they know GoW's tech list, and if they would be willing to give it to us. That would let us know what we'd be getting for 100 gold.

[lmtoops]

Delay Delay Delay....that is our strategy. When O2E works, we will not need any deals. Obviously there are several deals to be had if O2E fails. There is no need to commit at this time.

I looked at the map and I agree that GoW must be seeing an island.

[ZargonX]

As the ambassador to GoW, I will have a response proposal ready later this evening for everyone to review...

[vondrack]

OK, so to cast some light on this proposal... just talked to Trip:

Luxes have no deal about Construction, Monotheism... whatever. GoW is making this part up. Actually, Luxes are just researching Construction themselves.

[23:32] vondrack do they have a deal with you?
[23:33] Trip they offered it to us
[23:33] Trip we don't have a deal
[23:33] Trip WE are researching construction, actually :P
[23:33] Trip they claimed to be researching it

Knowing this, we shall probably be careful to take the proposal as honestly and seriously meant...

[ZargonX]

Ok, after having a chat with Vondrack, Sharpe, and Kloreep earlier today, we've unofficially decided that it's time to grab the bull by the horns and make first contact on our own terms. With that policy in mind, here is a draft to respond to GoW

Panzer32 (their ambassador to us),
In regards to the offer recently extended by your fine empire to the people of Legoland, I would first and foremost like to show our appreciation. In the spirit of cooperation, we will soon be dispatching a ship of peace to attempt to reach the shores of your far-off land. Though we cannot guarantee the journey will be successful, as we believe the sea to be wide and trecherous, we will attempt nonetheless. Though we are unprepared to confirm any agreements at this moment, as contact is not yet assured, we will be happy to discuss terms once we have met in person.

Thank you,
ZargonX
Ambassador to GoW


So, there you have it. We already have the head start in getting there, so contact can be made on our terms. Though, should we decide to veer off for some reason, we can always claim the passing was impossible (which it might be; who knows for sure) This should give us some more time to figure out exactly what we want, and doesn't commit us to any deals yet for a very valid reason, I feel.