The Enlightened Thread

[Sharpe]

If we are following the Operation Double Edge plan (O2E), Iron Working should be next.

Some possible observations about the other teams situation in the public forum:

Reportedly the war between ND and GoW possibly involved a dispute over transferring Mysticism to the other team. So likely only one of them has Mysticism - however, the other part of the transaction was to trade Mathematics in return which we don't have yet (within 2 turns so likely GoW was going to get it from Vox or ND).

Probably all the other teams have Iron Working but likely none have Map Making yet.

[Sharpe]

Number of Beakers for Middle Age and Industrial Age techs

Perhaps a bit premature but here are the base amount of beakers needed for the Middle Age and Industrial Age technologies (Please correct if I am wrong with any of them)

• Middle Age Techs:
  
  Monotheism 864
  Feudalism 768
  Engineering 864
  Theology 960
  Chivalry 768
  Invention 1056
  Printing Press 864
  Music Theory 960
  Education 1056
  Gunpowder 1152
  Banking 1248
  Astronomy 1344
  Chemistry 1440
  Democracy 1632
  Economics 1344
  Navigation 1344
  Physics 1536
  Metallurgy 1536
  Free Artistry 1248
  Theory of Gravity 1632
  Magnetism 1632
  Military Tradition 1536
  
  Industrial Techs:
  
  Nationalism 2880
  Steam Engine 2880
  Medicine 2400
  Communism 2880
  Industrialization 2880
  Electricity 3360
  Scientific Method 2400
  Sanitation 2160
  Espionage 2160
  The Corporation 2400
  Refining 3840
  Steel 3360
  Combustion 3840
  Replacement Parts 3360
  Flight 4320
  Amphibious Warfare 2880
  Mass Production 3360
  Electronics 4320
  Motorized Transportation 3360
  Advanced Flight 4320
  Radio 4800
  Atomic Theory 4800
  

[Tiberius]

Well, I suppose we need a new Enlightened. It was OK until now without one, but now we need to keep track of treaties, plan future researches and deals, etc.

We could maybe PM Spiffor, but if he doesn't come back we really need somebody to replace him.

Sharpe? Or somebody else willing to?

[Tiberius]

Updated with current events. (see the first post)

[Tiberius]

I hereby apply for the position of the Enlightened in the Government of Legoland.

[redstar1]

I'll second Tiberius for the post.

[ZargonX]

I will second Tiberius' application for the position. We've been without one for far too long...

[vondrack]

I have no problem with Tibi taking the post of The Enlightened either (read: I support it ). I believe we can do without the Military Architect much easier than without The Enlightened...

That said... do we have any other candidates for this post? Do we have anyone interested in becoming The Military Architect? Perhaps we might even enjoy our first elections...!

Raise your hands, guys!

[ZargonX]

I actually just suggested early elections in the thread of the same name And, actually, I suppose I will use this time to declare my intention of running for Military Achitect. So, in that vein, who's going to run for Master Builder

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by ZargonX
I actually just suggested early elections in the thread of the same name And, actually, I suppose I will use this time to declare my intention of running for Military Achitect. So, in that vein, who's going to run for Master Builder

If only I had known that

[Tiberius]

If you have comments in regard to the first post in this thread, please don't be shy, speak up!

Is there something I should add? Something I didn't think of? Or on the contrary, something that doesn't belong there and should be removed?

[Tiberius]

Trade proposals

OK, I can imagine 2 scenarios. Some parts of them are common, while others depends on how well we can perform on the diplomatic side. Time to prove that we deserve to be a trading power

1. The easiest way
- talk with the GS and prearrange the following deal: they give us the Republic plus some gold (the difference is 192 beakers, so something between 50 and 100 gold; depending on other clauses and on what they are proposing) for Construction and Currency;
- talk with GoW and tell them that we are going to give them Construction in 12 turns for 150 gold (in 12 turns they can make 300 gold at least, IMHO), but they agree on a non-whoring clause
- keep researching Currency on 100%

2. The tricky one
- this is the tricky part. Talk with ND and prearrange the following deal: they give us Currency and no gold (the difference is 96 beakers) for Construction, with 3 conditions: a) they tell us the ETA for Currency (turn X) b) they don't sell Constr to others and c) we split the market for Currency: we trade it with the GS and they trade it with the others
- talk with the GS and prearrange the following deal: they give us the Republic plus some gold (the difference is 192 beakers, so something between 50 and 100 gold; depending on other clauses and on what they are proposing) for Construction and Currency;
- talk with GoW and tell them that we are going to give them Construction in X turns (depending on the ND trade) for 100-200 gold; they agree on a non-whoring clause
- put the research slider on 0

-----------------

This is just the genaral layout. Once we decide which way to go, we can work further on the details

[vondrack]

OK, Tibi - here is something that I was pondering about. It is different from what you suggested - I do not mean to dismiss your ideas... just throwing in few more:

1) delay jumping into the medieval times
I believe it is quite important for us to delay other teams from entering the medieval times. First: we can potentially make LOADS of cash by making everyone stockpile cash, getting a fair share of it, providing the tech to them something like 15-20 turns from now. Second: once there are two teams entering the medieval era, there will be "massive barbarian uprisings" - as we have a lot of territory under FoW, we will have to strategically station our troops first, on order to prevent too many barb horsemen stacks from appearing and messing with our terrain improvements.

Considering this, I would try arranging things as follows:

2) tell GoW we have Construction and pre-arrange a tech-for-cash deal
I would be fair to GoW (they have been fair to us as well) and tell them we got Construction from a hut. I would tell them we do not want to hastily enter the medieval times and would prefer they shut their research down completely for some time, saving cash. On a certain, prenegotiated turn (coinciding with the discovery of the Republic by GS), we'd sell Construction to them for part of the saved cash, letting them trade it to whomever they may have prearranged deals as of now (reflecting the number of deals in the amount of cash asked for).

I would also include Currency in the deal - offering to sell it to them on the turn we discover it for 60 gold on condition they agree to buy it from us even if ND gets it a little bit earlier (+they do not whore it around). The price would be more than generous - getting us back the cash we spent on Polytheism, while making GoW happy, I believe (Currency for 60 gold is an awesome deal).

This way: GoW ends up with all the mandatory ancient techs, but not Republic (subject to a different deal, most probably for cash again). GoW goes medieval later than us.

3) trade Constr+Curr for Republic with GS
no cash balance asked for on condition they will not oppose us making a deal on Construction+Curr with Voxes (see below) and they allow us to resell Republic to GoW and RPers (granting us neverending exclusivity on Republic to these two teams).

This way: GS end up with all the ancient techs + Republic and go medieval later than us. Would probably trade Republic to Voxes for their "free" tech.

4) trade Constr+Curr for the "free" medieval tech with Voxes
That is a fair trade beaker-wise (20+16=36), so no cash balance asked, plus I would promise we would not whore their "free" tech around.

This way: Voxes end up with all the ancient techs and go medieval later than us. Would probably trade their "free" tech to GS for the Republic, getting some cash as a bonus.

A couple of comments on this:

1) GoW should be happy, since we will help them waste no beakers on a tech they can get from us. They should also be happy to trade for the Republic (perhaps paying with the "rest" of the saved cash - getting effectively two techs for the cost of one). We get loads of cash, which is IMHO a win-win deal.

2) GS should be happy since we will help them go medieval at the same time as other teams (if we whore Constr+Curr around ASAP, they would be late due to their research of Republic). Plus, trading Constr+Curr (20+16) for Republic (28) is an awesome deal. We get Republic with some exclusives plus a grateful partner. Win-win again, IMHO.

3) Voxes should be happy, too since they get out of the medieval times almost for free, being able to stockpile cash all along the way. That is good for us, since that would balance the obvious GS advantage on Estonia.

4) We would have an awesome headstart on medieval tech research, being able to start right after the discovery of Currency - going probably for Engineering, to avoid researching the same tech we would eventually get from Voxes. Alternatively, we could shut our research down completely and stockpile cash, rushing city improvements like mad once in the Republic.

5) I would point out to all the teams involved (GoW, GS, and Voxes) that our intention is to make sure all of them go medieval at the same time (that should make them feel quite safe), possibly a bit (1-3 turns) earlier than ND & RPers.

Just three trades and they put us, GoW, GS, and Voxes into sort of a "research alliance", leaving ND and RPers out of the loop... forcing them to pay lots of cash for whatever they may need to go medieval.

What do you think?

[Sharpe]

I agree with most of your ideas Radek, but I suspect that we won't be able to hold out for as long as you think - maybe 5-12 turns at most as the other civs may become impatient.

Otherwise I don't see why those civs will refuse as we are being fairly generous and benevolent and perhaps this will start a decent coalition among us, GoW and GS.

[Kloreep]

Good proposal.

As I just mentioned in the chat, we should be sure to offer these techs for sale to the RPers. Our relations may be cool and they may have no research effort to contribute to the medieval jump, but our Carthage treaty did specify some tech dealing, and we should live up to that.