Discussion for the The Chronicle of Legoland thread

[ZargonX]

[SIZE=1]
For the next turn:

1) Settler+Mercred S, then found Red Bricks
2) MercG S, then SE and S
3) Conan SW, then SW, then W, NW
4) Gaul NE
5) Angus N
6) Jason (?), after finishing the road near Jackson, to mine that tile

1:
2: Yup, yup, yup.
3. All good
4:
5: Onward and upward!
6: How about "Jake" or "Jimbo?" Jimbo is a good construction worker name...

[vondrack]

Originally posted by lmtoops
I noticed (no Granary in Logopolis), but knew it was a mistake that would be corrected.

Well, it would not have been corrected if Tibi didn't tell me...

Having nothing better to mess with, I've spent some more time today fine-tuning the summary table layout. This is probably the final version:



Changes:

1) put the city names and their time to grow together
2) put the city productions and their time to completion together
3) added city culture rating (culture per turn)
4) added current research project, it's progress and time to completion (fake figures used!)
5) added treasury value (the small number in the upper right corner of the left/top-most field with the turn number and date)
6) added net income (the small number in the upper right corner of the "Commerce" label field; fake number used!)

I did my best to put in all the data I assume we (would like to) check often. This table should replace two items currently being included in every Chronicle entry: the city summaries and the "Summary/End Turn" screenshot. I hope all the data from those are now included conveniently in one easy to review table. I eventually decided to include no detailed budget data from the F1 screen (except the treasury value and net income) and no data from the F11 screen.

The main reason is I would have to manually reenter most of these figures every turn... and as the primary reason for creating this table was to save myself from repetitive tasks like manually rewriting figures, I will better keep uploading the F11 screenshots for those that are interested in our rankings.

I would like to hear as many people as possible now, whether you like the table and find it easy to review and use. Any members proposing reasonable changes after I redo all the Chronicle entries from 4000BC (over the weekend, I think) will be executed!

I intend to keep the source XLS file containing all the tables available online, just in case someone feels like playing with all those numbers...

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack

Changes:

1) put the city names and their time to grow together

This I don't like, sorry. IMHO it would be more logical to have Pop (in mil), pop, growth, in this order.

2) put the city productions and their time to completion together

Yep, looking good.

3) added city culture rating (culture per turn)

Great!

4) added current research project, it's progress and time to completion (fake figures used!)

A bit strange because of the placement, but other than that good idea (maybe under the total pop? just an idea).

5) added treasury value (the small number in the upper right corner of the left/top-most field with the turn number and date)
6) added net income (the small number in the upper right corner of the "Commerce" label field; fake number used!)

How about one more row at the end of the report, with the following figures: total income, treasury value, net income (net gain), current reseach, and maybe other total/global figures.

Any members proposing reasonable changes after I redo all the Chronicle entries from 4000BC (over the weekend, I think) will be executed!

Great work, Radek (I hope it will be easier for you, too, updating these tables).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
This I don't like, sorry. IMHO it would be more logical to have Pop (in mil), pop, growth, in this order.

Hm, perhaps a matter of personal taste... what about putting the pop before the city name. It would then resemble how it is displayed ingame very closely (see below). I consider the time to the next pop growth the most important food-related city infomation, as the growth is the only thing that implies some kind of a change and that may require an action (re/assigning worked tiles, happiness adjustment etc.). Thus, I put this information as close to the city name as possible (it is more or less following the same pattern as the production column).

Originally posted by Tiberius
A bit strange because of the placement, but other than that good idea (maybe under the total pop? just an idea).

I thought the research project was kinda "production" of the empire as a whole... besides I wanted to put in the accumulated and target beaker count (might be interesting to watch) and that would not fit very well anywhere else. Anyway, I made a small adjustment, see below.

Originally posted by Tiberius
How about one more row at the end of the report, with the following figures: total income, treasury value, net income (net gain), current reseach, and maybe other total/global figures.

Well, I did my best to accomodate you, Tibi... What about the following layout (it includes even the most important F11 data):



Beware, lots of fake figures used... I just wanted to show the layout, I will correct the data later. There is now only one thing I am not satisfied with. The culture summary values... those do not fit there nicely...

Added budget slider settings (0.10.0, where treasury was in the previous version) and various F11 data (lower "green" part), moved the net income and treasury, adjusted research data. The 4/16 cities notation should denote we have 4 cities, while our current modified OCN is 16 (fake figure - will have to find the proper value somewhere).

OK, Tibi, your turn...

[Tiberius]

I'm very flattered by the effort you make to please my taste

Anyway, put back the pop after the city name column, please! If your idea was to prove me that it can be worse that it was before, you succeded completely

Damn this attachment bug I'll send my proposal for total culture by email.

Btw, I also sent you the latest Lego simulator. Did you get it?

[vondrack]

There is one thing regarding the next turn I would like to discuss... First, the "obvious" moves:

1) Angus NW, then N
2) Settler to found Red Bricks, Merced to fortify there
3) Gaul E, then, NE, NE
4) Conan SW, then W, NW
5) MercG SE, then S
6) Archer SE, attacking the barbarian

ad 1) the western coast of that new land is our primary interest, I believe, so I would stick to it as much as possible
ad 6) this is a bit more tricky, see below

Farmerville growth & defense
If we do nothing, Farmerville will grow to pop 3 one turn before finishing the worker. The Archer will not be enough to keep the whole population content there and we will have to (for one turn), use an entertainer. Plus, we now have 2 barbarians close to the city - a worker and the city, that would be two things to defend (unless we keep the worker in the city, of course). But we have only one military unit in there - that might put us into troubles...

Thus, here goes my proposal: let the Archer kill the barbarian SE of the city (Archer's chances are twice as better on the offense than on the defense anyway), temporarily using one of the Farmerville citizens as an entertainer (the one working the unimproved bonus grassland). This way, we will hopefully get rid of one of the barbarians, plus we will delay the growth of the city by one turn, actually making it stay at pop 2, as the new citizen will be immediately turned into the worker.

Should the other barbarian also approach the city, we will be able to engage and dispose of him, too, leaving Farmerville with an entertainer for another turn, without delaying its growth any further (we currently need 8 more surplus food to grow... 2+4+4 will be fine, but 2+2+4 will do, too - the Farmerville food surplus is 4 with no entertainers and 2 with one entertainer).

Do you consider this a good idea?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I'm very flattered by the effort you make to please my taste

I just love it when people feel flattered (even very flattered) by my efforts...

Originally posted by Tiberius
Anyway, put back the pop after the city name column, please! If your idea was to prove me that it can be worse that it was before, you succeded completely

Errr... no, I was serious, not trying to prove it could be even worse... I will still keep the time to grow together with the city name, but the rest has been rearranged to your taste, I hope.

Originally posted by Tiberius
Damn this attachment bug I'll send my proposal for total culture by email.

That was a good idea! Incorporated. I did some more reformatting, mostly cosmetic changes though, and here comes yet another "final version" of my summary table. I admit I am now quite happy with everything. There is lots of data (actually, I believe there is almost everything - only the number of military units and thus the unit costs/upkeep is missing) and quite neatly formatted.

Any more changes/adjustments anyone? Tibi?



Note: again, lots of fake figures used.

Originally posted by Tiberius
Btw, I also sent you the latest Lego simulator. Did you get it?

The last one I got from you was 2310BC.

[Tiberius]

The last one I got from you was 2310BC.

Damn, my ISP again. I'll resend it.

Back to the statistics, the table is looking good now. I can live even with the strong green you use, but if you asked me, I'd prefer the light green I used in my email ; seriously, you could use the strong green for the "turn nr." cell, while a milder for the other headlines (btw, the "researching" cell could be green too, not the tech and the numbers, only the background for the word "researching": it is important, after all)

Edit: Maybe the cities' names with bold? Just an innocent idea, please don't execute me

I suppose who want to finds out even more info can download the save, so I say it's enough.

Farmerville growth & defense
...
Do you consider this a good idea?

Yes, the plan is looking good.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Back to the statistics, the table is looking good now. I can live even with the strong green you use, but if you asked me, I'd prefer the light green I used in my email ; seriously, you could use the strong green for the "turn nr." cell, while a milder for the other headlines (btw, the "researching" cell could be green too, not the tech and the numbers, only the background for the word "researching": it is important, after all)

Edit: Maybe the cities' names with bold? Just an innocent idea, please don't execute me

Well... you can have the city names in boldface, no problem. I can even accomodate you with the Research label. The background is now painted with the headline color.

BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR UGLY "MILDER" (AKA VENOMOUS) GREEN!
Just have a look what you ask me for :



It's just plain awful, especially combined with the other green. I am not going to commit such a color crime... Not me!



The very latest table draft again, with most of the changes proposed by Tibi...

[Tiberius]

You're right, combined with the other green doesn't look good at all; but I still prefer the mild green for the whole table, and this is not a joke! It is of course a matter of taste, but I don't like strong colors. My green is more, khmm, elegant.

If this makes you happy, this is my last criticism for your table

Let's wait for other opinions, too. Anyway, this is now a very-very minor problem

[ZargonX]

[SIZE=1]
Farmerville growth & defense
If we do nothing, Farmerville will grow to pop 3 one turn before finishing the worker. The Archer will not be enough to keep the whole population content there and we will have to (for one turn), use an entertainer. Plus, we now have 2 barbarians close to the city - a worker and the city, that would be two things to defend (unless we keep the worker in the city, of course). But we have only one military unit in there - that might put us into troubles...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not determine earlier that the game was set on something like Cheiftan, and that the cities would not go into disorder if ungarrisoned immediately upon reaching lvl. 3? I thought we had tested it out and found it to be true...

[Tiberius]

Zargon, it is because we rushed an archer and killed one pop. I don't know how long it will take for them to forget, but for now they are content because of the military police.

[Kloreep]

Farmerville defense looks good. While I actually don't think it's good short term, what with delayed growth, we need to clean out the barbs around there to make things safe for the worker.

[ZargonX]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Zargon, it is because we rushed an archer and killed one pop. I don't know how long it will take for them to forget, but for now they are content because of the military police.

Ooohhh.... riiiight.... the population slaughter... don't know how I forgot about that... must've misplaced the damning evidence somewhere... excuse me a moment...

(in the hallowed halls of Lego government, the sounds of documents being shredded...)

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
You're right, combined with the other green doesn't look good at all; but I still prefer the mild green for the whole table, and this is not a joke! It is of course a matter of taste, but I don't like strong colors. My green is more, khmm, elegant.

If this makes you happy, this is my last criticism for your table

Dammit... I just hate it when you are not completely happy, Tibi... It is not the saturation, it's the shade of your green I dislike so much... I thought I would do with the colours built-in into the Excel, but I can see now that the colour matters more than I thought... so I will throw in a bit of PhotoShop, too.

What about this?



And yes, Tibi is correct about the cause of our (un)happiness problem in Farmerville. AFAIK, the rush effect will wear off after 20 turns. Until then, we will need to keep the pop low or bring in more than one MP unit.