Discussion for the The Chronicle of Legoland thread

[vondrack]

I have been trying to come up with some sort of an easy to review summary table that would replace the textual summaries I currently use in the Chronicle entries. Here is the (interim) result of my efforts - this is what would appear in the Chronicle for 2110BC:



I am aware of that there is an important piece of information still missing - the treasury value (gold) and the research progress. I will probably have to add one more table for these data, as it would not fit very nicely within the format of this city summary table.

I will apreciate if you comment on this draft, perhaps suggesting improvements - as I'm going to redo all the summaries since Turn 1 into this new format, it would be nice if you look at this table and tell me whether it contains what you are usually looking for and if it is easy to find there before I do the re-formatting.

I hope there is no key needed - just that the data with the yellow background are those that has changed since 2150BC.

I intend to maintain all the summary tables in one XLS file for anyone interested in doing research or analysis on the data collected.

[vondrack]

Also, I would like to check if anyone actually uses the following stuff I (sometimes) make available on the server:

1) F1 Screen (if it gets uploaded, usually with pop changes)
2) F11 Screen
3) received savegame
4) played savegame
5) sent savegame

I am especially interested in knowing whether anyone uses the F11 (Demographics) Screen image - it takes quite some space and if I find out nobody actually looks at it, I will drop it from the Chronicle entries.

The last change I actually consider is to keep only the latest "sent" savegame on the server. The reason for uploading it there is that any member of our team can resend it, should Gathering Storm ask (whatever the reason - they may get the file corrupted, I may forget to attach it at all... whatever). But that is likely to happen only for the very latest save, which means keeping the very last save on the server should be enough...

Be so kind and comment - I haven't had troubles using more and more space on our corporate server, but I intend to cut the used space as low as possible, since if/when I run into troubles, it will already be too late... even though I am relatively free to use the space reasonably, it is a bit uncertain whether the owner would consider screen captures from the Apolyton PtWDG "reasonable"...

[quantum_mechani]

I read the Demographics sometimes, but mostly I don't remember to. What about including the less used screens every third or fourth turn?

[ZargonX]

I check the demographics every chronicle update, but that's just me. I just like to see where we stand in the grand scheme of things.

I usually use the "finished turn" if I need a save file for some reason, such as taking screen shots, etc.

I do like your new table, it presents the information in a clear and straight-forward fashion. I would imagine that everyone would be able to understand it quite well.

[Sharpe]

Hi all, finally back with a replacement monitor after the other one failed during that irc chat on Superbowl Sunday.

I check the demographics update every turn and occasionally the F1 Domestic Hag screen. Of course, the links to the saves are very useful as well. The new table idea is very nice too.

1) Angus W, then NW
Might want to consider N instead for the 2nd turn as we can already see that there is land to the north.

2) Settler+Merc SW, then S, S
Yep

3) Gaul W, then E, NE, E, NE
Not sure what you see - I only see a whale 2 squares west of the most SW tip of our landmass. That likely means ocean or sea beyond doesn't it - still doesn't hurt to check perhaps.

4) Conan S, then SW
Agreed

5) MercG E, popping the hut
Agreed

6) Merciless to fortify in Jackson
Hmm, might want to consider sending him to uncover those dark spots to the southeast.

7) Worker to road, then mine
Sure

8) New Worker NW, then road
Agreed

ad 3) there is something two tiles west from the southwesternmost tip of our landmass. I hope Gaul will be able to determine what if getting one tile closer...

Err... I am almost certain that it's a whale

By the way, tried to log into the Legoland irc chat room and it said that my address was denied permission... anyone have an idea what might have happened?

[Tiberius]

I also check the Demographics screenshot quite often.

The new table in nice The only thing I'd change about it is actually a simplification: I, personally, am curious only about the surplus food, the raw and eaten figures doesn't interest me.

What I couldn't comprehend is what is the logic behing the yellow cells That eluded me completely.

Edit: Oh, yes, I download almost always the received savegame. To avoid problems with storage space, I think you can keep only the latest sent save and only the latest demographics screen.

[vondrack]

Well, sorry for the delay - I had to go downtown in the morning and after I came back and wrote the entry, I lost it to some weird browser action. Stupid me, I did not make a copy of the text before hitting the Preview Post button... It then took me some time to cool down and write it one more time.

Sharpe will be happy to know that we no longer need to research The Wheel! We've got it free of charge from Illuryians. The goody huts has been just sweet in this game... almost half of our research is actually sponsored by lesser tribes...

OK, our plan for the next turn:

1) Angus NW
2) Settler+Mercred S
3) Gaul E
4) Conan SW
5) MercG N
6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill

ad 1) I would move NW instead of N, as the coast turns to the North just one more tile in the NW direction. By going NW first, we will hopefully reveal everything to the West. We should then be able to move Angus directly North, being able to watch both sides... Not a strong preference, though.

ad 5) I would let MercG reveal the last remaining tile two tiles North of him, then send him SE to chart the shrouded area SE of the fish, and eventually assign him to the Farmerville & Forkmouth area - there apparently is a barbarian camp South of that city, which we should get rid of. I do not think Legopolis needs any garrison urgently and if such a need emerges, Mercilles or our new Merc being built in Jackson may help - thanks to the road, Legopolis and Jackson are very close to each other.

Originally posted by ZargonX
I usually use the "finished turn" if I need a save file for some reason, such as taking screen shots, etc.

Just keep in mind that if you load the finished turn save, you get an extra round of production, which makes what you see ingame different from what is actually true.

Originally posted by Sharpe
3) Gaul W, then E, NE, E, NE
Not sure what you see - I only see a whale 2 squares west of the most SW tip of our landmass. That likely means ocean or sea beyond doesn't it - still doesn't hurt to check perhaps.

You were right, it was only a whale there...

Originally posted by Sharpe
6) Merciless to fortify in Jackson
Hmm, might want to consider sending him to uncover those dark spots to the southeast.

Let's wait few turns until the new Merc in Jackson is built. We might have a situation in Jackson otherwise, if another barbarian comes from the Northern Mountains.

Originally posted by Sharpe
By the way, tried to log into the Legoland irc chat room and it said that my address was denied permission... anyone have an idea what might have happened?

Fixed (most probably caused by the incident on the Superbowl Sunday).

Originally posted by Tiberius
The new table in nice The only thing I'd change about it is actually a simplification: I, personally, am curious only about the surplus food, the raw and eaten figures doesn't interest me.

This is perhaps a good idea. I will replace it with the number of city inhabitants. It's just eye candy, but... I will prepare an update version of the table and post it here:



EDIT: I did a number of changes... added population (eye candy), left out raw food, following the same logic left out the raw shield output & total commerce, added culture and some totals. Changed some formatting (got rid of the "formulaic" formatting, dropped yellowing for the ever-changing columns) . Do you like this layout better?

Originally posted by Tiberius
What I couldn't comprehend is what is the logic behing the yellow cells That eluded me completely.

It's simple. The yellow background indicates that the corresponding data changed compared to the previous turn. My intention is to stress the changes, so that you can quickly skim through the table, focusing on new developments only.

EDIT: I dropped the yellow backgrounds for the cells containing "ever-changing" figures, like the stored food, accumulated shields, turns to completion, and culture, as these change almost always... stressing the change every time makes thus little sense. If there is anything you should notice, you will notice it in another column anyway (like e.g. food deficit).

***

I will probably keep posting the F11 screen, even if I store just last few turns of that screenshot, as it is apparently checked quite often. OTOH, I will keep only the latest "sent" save. The F1 Screen should hopefully be completely replaced by the new summary table...

Just BTW, Imperial City dropped to pop 2 again. Voxes have just built a settler... no wonder/barracks building yet... They must have some sort of a culture improvement there, otherwise they would not be able to remain #1 on the city ladder... but it completely puzzles me why would someone build a temple so early in a chieftain game...

[Sharpe]

Sharpe will be happy to know that we no longer need to research The Wheel! We've got it free of charge from Illuryians. The goody huts has been just sweet in this game... almost half of our research is actually sponsored by lesser tribes...

Nice! I am pleased that we got the Wheel - too bad we didn't get a more expensive tech ... of course, ANY tech is better than none from a hut hehe... Now about getting Iron Working

1) Angus NW
Sure, either N or NW is fine now that we can see land beyond either place - starting to wonder though whether this might just be a small peninsula though and not connected to the western landmass (if so then almost certainly a civ is on the western landmass)...

2) Settler+Mercred S
Yep

3) Gaul E
Agreed

4) Conan SW
Might want to consider going W instead, could uncover a couple of dark squares while SW will probably reveal nothing more - either way, we can resume moving along the coastline one turn later with both alternatives.

5) MercG N
Agreed, leave no black square there if possible.

6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill
Agreed ... what is the name of the other worker again?

[lmtoops]

It interesting to note that my name is Leopoldo. Purely by coincidence, the worker has a very similar name.

[lmtoops]

By the way, if I disagree with a move I will comment on it. So my silence signal my approval with the moves.

[Tiberius]

Vondrack didn't want to use Jack for the other worker, to avoid naming them with our names and now, here it comes a citizen called Leopoldo

lmtoops, we could change the worker's name it that bothers you, really.

Originally posted by lmtoops
By the way, if I disagree with a move I will comment on it. So my silence signal my approval with the moves.

Same goes for me. I almost always read them and if I disagree with something I'll post it.

Do you like this layout better?

Radek, the new format now looks very good (even though I miss the total production and commerce, but I don't have a logical explanation for this ).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
1) Angus NW
Sure, either N or NW is fine now that we can see land beyond either place - starting to wonder though whether this might just be a small peninsula though and not connected to the western landmass (if so then almost certainly a civ is on the western landmass)...

I pray it's just a mid-sized peninsula, actually separated from the western landmass... If we have no chokepoint to block and defend, formulating our military doctrine will be so much easier! We could do just with a strong navy and a fast/mobile response force, leaving the traditional defending force pretty small. Overseas invasions are logistically so demanding that we would be almost completely safe up until at least Galleons...

On an interesting note, chatting with Nimitz yesterday, he told me RPers believed GS and Voxes were probably on the same landmass (considering what GS indirectly indicated - GS and RPers talk, even if having no ingame contact). Knowing the GS starting location, I guess that there is quite a big landmass to the West of us, with GS in the Northern part and Voxes in the South... RPers also believe that GS is going/planning to rush Voxes...

Originally posted by Sharpe
4) Conan SW
Might want to consider going W instead, could uncover a couple of dark squares while SW will probably reveal nothing more - either way, we can resume moving along the coastline one turn later with both alternatives.

Chatting with redstar yesterday, he proposed something I considered quite reasonable. He said having our two southern explorers meet on the coast would not be necessary... as we would have two of them at the same place eventually. So I thought about having Conan to follow the coast for two more turns (crossing the mouth of that river) and then turn northwards, loosely following the river there, exploring the desert area SSE of Farmerville (possibly taking care of the barb camp, which must be there somewhere). Gaul would uncover whatever remained still shrouded afterwards.

Originally posted by Sharpe
6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill
Agreed ... what is the name of the other worker again?

I thought about Jason, but nobody said he liked the name and Tibi didn't like it, so I am open for suggestions...

Originally posted by lmtoops
It interesting to note that my name is Leopoldo. Purely by coincidence, the worker has a very similar name.

Now this is really funny... I had no idea I chose a name so similar to yours... Leopold is a very unusual name here, actually very old-fashioned one (Austrian and German rulers used that name centuries ago). If you are not happy with that, we can change it... name the worker anything you like.

Originally posted by Tiberius
Vondrack didn't want to use Jack for the other worker, to avoid naming them with our names and now, here it comes a citizen called Leopoldo

Yeah... I paid so much attention not to accidentally name the worker lmtoops and you see...

Originally posted by Tiberius
Radek, the new format now looks very good (even though I miss the total production and commerce, but I don't have a logical explanation for this ).

Geeze... I just love this kind of people... for them, there is always something missing or something extra... I am going to design one more summary table today that would contain the rest of information from the F1, F3, and F11 screens (mainly research & finance reports, throwing in the important demographics data as well).

[vondrack]

OK, another barely exciting turn played. See the Chronicle entry for the new piece of land uncovered by Angus... nothing special, but the land extends further to N/NW.

For the next turn:

1) Settler+Mercred S, then found Red Bricks
2) MercG S, then SE and S
3) Conan SW, then SW, then W, NW
4) Gaul NE
5) Angus N
6) Jason (?), after finishing the road near Jackson, to mine that tile

I can't even think of anything needing a comment this time...

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
I can't even think of anything needing a comment this time...

I can

Are you sure that the city-screenshots posted in the last Chronicle update aren't old ?? Just take a look: you can see the barbarian camp near Jackson, Farmerville and Panama have only one pop, ...

I don't mind if you don't post the screenshots, but if they are already there, maybe they could be updated ?

Edit: I probably wouldn't have noticed it, if I hadn't got scared by the empty food storage of Panama, while they are still at pop 1 ...

[lmtoops]

I noticed (no Granary in Logopolis), but knew it was a mistake that would be corrected.