Operation: Glorious Plastic

[vondrack]

Regular Thursday alliance chat:

Session Start: Thu Sep 04 20:00:54 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
* Now talking in #gow_cofa
vondrack: hello!
Darekill: Hi!
EmpAggie: hi there
* Darekill sets mode: +ooo EmpAggie vondrack Zayxus
Darekill: vondrack will you set a Password
vondrack: is the chatroom name the same every Thursday?
EmpAggie: it is
vondrack: ok, I will set it to "Alliance" (no quotes)
* Retrieving #gow_cofa info...
* vondrack sets mode: +k Alliance
vondrack: done
vondrack: gimme a minute - I will finish something here, k?
EmpAggie: alright
vondrack: done
vondrack: we can start
vondrack: unless we are still waiting for someone
EmpAggie: we can start
Darekill: no not realy maybe some ND touris will come
vondrack: ok, Aggie, start then - anything from your side?
EmpAggie: not much we have leo's coming uo this turn
EmpAggie: we will upgrade 7 horse to riders
vondrack: that's cool
vondrack: Leo will be handy
Darekill: Good I have not so much time have to play the turn though I'm tempted to wait till tomorrow just to show that GS isn'T the only one to delay the thing
EmpAggie: next turn we have 5 move but will uograde only 3(due to cost) and send the others south
EmpAggie: that would show them
vondrack: GS is quite likely maxxing their commerce/research now
vondrack: as we moved to #1 in Mfg. goods...
EmpAggie: excellent
vondrack: seeing Leo's gone will make them very happy, I believe...
EmpAggie: yap
vondrack: the gunpowder research is going smoothly now
vondrack: we will even be able to knock the slider down a notch from the next turn
EmpAggie: alright, even more horse to rider
vondrack: so you can lower your contributions to 25g each
vondrack: for the remaining turns
EmpAggie: that will add up
vondrack: yeah, I thought you would not mind
Darekill: From this or next turn on?
Darekill: The map shoud be with you now.
vondrack: you may lower it from this very turn
Darekill: Ah thanks a lot!
vondrack:
vondrack: our pleasure
EmpAggie: we appreciate it vondrack
Darekill: Aggie you need iron now right?
vondrack: we can provide iron, if you need
vondrack: we have one extra source
EmpAggie: yah we need iron
Darekill: I think it's better if we give it, then you have it now not one turn later
vondrack: that's true
EmpAggie: very true and if we need to break it, we won't show we are working together
Darekill: Though your help is apriciated Vondrack. Just in case we should realy lose one Iron.
vondrack: ok - our iron will be ready, if you need it
vondrack: Voxes have one of their own
vondrack: so we will always have one extra source
Darekill: fine how are they doing?
vondrack: and there is one more one we have not connected yet
EmpAggie: later when the alliance goes open it will come in handy
vondrack: I will get to Voxes later on
vondrack: there is something to discuss regarding them
vondrack: now, Legoland Expeditionary Forces:
vondrack: elite + 2 vet knights land this turn
vondrack: nr Arnablanca
Darekill: Right above the spices.
vondrack: yep
vondrack: 3 vet knights land in 4 turns at the same place
EmpAggie: good
Darekill: Good what we need now is a RoP.
vondrack: 3 vet knights land in 5 turns nr Trafalgar
vondrack: that's will complete the first wave
Darekill: otherwise our Production chain will suffer...
vondrack: we are already putting together another one
vondrack: do we really need RoP?
Darekill: I guess.
vondrack: that would only allow our units move faster, right?
Darekill: otherwise we loose the tiles where your knights are on.
vondrack: if we are not at war, we should not interfere with your economy, I think...
vondrack: not sure - must check it
Darekill: and they are needed.
EmpAggie: i have an idea, you could go iturn north and land near deep dark dungeon, coulkd save some mnovement time and rop issues
Darekill: hmm.. you could be right but I'm not sure...
EmpAggie: does rp have an embassy with either of you
vondrack: not with us
EmpAggie: good then they can't see rop
EmpAggie: i'll look at a game later to see if units bother production, i don't honestly remember
EmpAggie: if you aren't at war
Darekill: they had one with us but it is closed due to war.
vondrack: yeah - I will check the issue myself, too
Darekill: I'll send you an acceptet RoP if we don't need it just don't accept
Darekill: brb
EmpAggie: do the embassy still let you see even in war because i remember in a single person game that the embassy remains. Darekill see if you can see rp rop's etc
vondrack: CONFIRMED (using a hotseat test game) - unless at war, foreign units do not prevent you from using your tiles
EmpAggie: excellent
vondrack: ok - so no need for an RoP then
vondrack: let's save that for later...
vondrack: now: Lego dyes for RPers
vondrack: I PMed both of you about that
Darekill: O.K. fine then no RoP where there is none it can't be seen
vondrack: we think that it is a very minor thing that can improve our cover, which seems to be working great so far
vondrack: besides - I believe you will cut the trade link very soon, right?
vondrack: Aggie already approved the idea, what about you, Darekill?
Darekill: Ah yes we approve it too.
vondrack: ok, fine
vondrack: we are making great progress today
Darekill: though it can last some turns till we realy can cut it.
Darekill: GS is active down there.
vondrack: we have another backdoor ready, just in case...
EmpAggie: thats ok any extra pop will just casue them to eat through stores quicker whne we cut it
vondrack: we told RPers we would be providing them with our dyes only until Vox finish their first harbour
Darekill: BtW RP could not see a RoP.
EmpAggie: good
Darekill: We can't see theirs with GS.
EmpAggie: i was curious about that
vondrack: but GS or RP could see the RoP if establishing an embassy with us
vondrack: since we are not at war with them yet
Darekill: Yes and thats why we do not make it.
vondrack: it is unlikely they'd do it, though, I know...
vondrack: right
* arne has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: now, probably the last thing from my side:
vondrack: hello, arne!
Darekill: Hi Arne!
arne: hi
Darekill: Arne is our Board Admin
EmpAggie: hi there
vondrack: ...there is an interesting situation with GS and Vox
vondrack: as you probably know, Voxes are our sworn allies
* Darekill sets mode: +o vondrack
* Darekill sets mode: +o arne
vondrack: they inform us about everything and generally coordinate their actions with ours
vondrack: they were fully briefed about our involvement in this war
vondrack: now, the situatuion:
vondrack: Velocyrix sent them a letter
vondrack: in brief: he suggested they make the best out of the chaos on Bob
vondrack: and attack GoW possessions on Mystery Isle (aka Baby Bob)
vondrack: goes without saying
vondrack: they will not do it
vondrack: for real, that is
vondrack: however, there could be a possibility of STAGING a conflict
EmpAggie: humm interesting, i like it
vondrack: not sure what benefit it could bring...
vondrack: currently, in Lego
vondrack: we lean towards letting Voxes do what they wish
vondrack: as long as they do not interfere with our/your plans
vondrack: and coordinate all their actions with all of us
vondrack: as this would be amatter of Vox and GoW
vondrack: I would suggest that GoW and Vox get into contact
Darekill: As long as it runs along these terms I guess it's GoW to do the decission.
vondrack: and discuss the idea
vondrack: exactly
Darekill: Can i talk now a bit?
vondrack: yup, go ahead
arne: yes
Darekill: O.k. It is about Operation "Sturmbrecher"
Darekill: We start it this turn.
Darekill: You'll get both a map now from me where our Troops will stay at the end of this turn O.k.?
Darekill: just a moment.
vondrack: just a side-note: use the grid for your maps, please
vondrack: it makes them easier to read
vondrack: at least - in the future...
Darekill: O.k. still searching for the thing....
EmpAggie: Darekill could you send it to cllco3051@hotmail.com. i am away from my home comp and can't access pictures remotely from here in that account
Darekill: So sorry for the delay map is on the way.
EmpAggie: no problem
Darekill: to cllco3051@hotmail.com too....
EmpAggie: thanks
vondrack: got it
EmpAggie: also you notices i moved the rider of the road down there for ease of movement for you all
Darekill: My question is is it O.K.?
EmpAggie: its perfect
Darekill: We will leave some troops on the mountain but all Ansar (13) will end at the point marked with an X
Darekill: The most Defdivs and Med. infs will move one West.
Darekill: Direction Fort Löwenmut.
vondrack: well... I do not think our units could make it there in time anyway...
Darekill: Well it is more to cooperate with gow
Darekill: Before I move them
EmpAggie: is there any change you could use any of the defdivs for destroying that road square. there are lots who rally hate loosing a rider to do it. It ok with me, i actually considered moving out wholes stack, then we would probably be safe
EmpAggie: or also a catpult could do it too, right
Darekill: I'am not allowed to use our troops for that. sorry Aggie but my people won't let me do it and to be honest I think it is your job..
EmpAggie: thats fine, i rider more or less want make difference, actually i don't ind
Darekill: Yes I think it'll be worth the sacrifice.
vondrack: btw... how are you doing against GS?
Darekill: We just lost a Pike for the peek into toledo...
EmpAggie: actually it might be to our adavatage, if we move the whole stack there is little change we could take loses
Darekill: As I sais befor it is your decission.
Darekill: But I think since toledo is empty there will be some GS Catapults on the way.
EmpAggie: i'll discuss specifics with ghengis then.
Darekill: So maybe it would be better if we can engage the GS next turn together...
EmpAggie: i agree
Darekill: That's it from my side.
EmpAggie: i am eager to see where the gs forces are, so we know exactly where to atatck
Darekill: I think either they take the south route via Murcia or the north road to Alamo.
Darekill: I'd take the north route.
EmpAggie: i'm glad they did this, now we can destroy them and retreat to saftey. If they took the north we can atatck this turn maybe
Darekill: and that is the main reason we do not move so far to the east as we could.
EmpAggie: good call
vondrack: alright... just one more thing - we will need one ROADED tile that will be NOT part of your regular road network (not to create a bottleneck) to stack our units on (near Macao). Can you prepare such a tile, please?
Darekill: If you can atack them that would be great.
EmpAggie: sure thing
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: you have about 8 turns to do that
vondrack: that's how long it's going until our first group arrives there
EmpAggie: how about the roaded tile 2e,1s of macao
EmpAggie: would that work
EmpAggie: if not i'll send a worker to another place
vondrack: the bonus grass?
EmpAggie: yap
vondrack: already roaded, right?
EmpAggie: yes indeed
vondrack: seems ok - I will take a closer look and let you know. Perhaps - could you send us your WM?
vondrack: if that's not too daring
EmpAggie: will do
vondrack: I will have to find a place that will allow us maximum operational range
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: ok, nothing else here
EmpAggie: nope all seems well
vondrack: fine - next Thursday, then?
Darekill: fine then I'll make the turn and send it on.
Darekill: All right.
EmpAggie: same time same place
vondrack: cool
vondrack: take care, gentlemen!
Darekill: Next thursday will be my last one for three weeks.
EmpAggie: also darekill send save to the cllco3051 account please
vondrack: vacations?
Darekill: I'm going to take a hollyday. I think Borc will take over then.
vondrack: ok
EmpAggie: have a fun onw
Darekill: cllco3051 O.K.!
Darekill: I'll have.
vondrack: ok, cya!
Darekill: Lanzarote is a fine Island.
vondrack: bye
arne: bye
Session Close: Thu Sep 04 21:03:04 2003

[vondrack]

The route for our troops landing nr Arnablance we later agreed upon with Darekill on a separate channel is:

Turn 0: land upon the spice
Turn 1: E-NE
Turn 2: NE
Turn 3: E-NE
Turn 4: NE-NE
Turn 5: NE-NE
Turn 6: NW-N
Turn 7: NE
Turn 8: E-NE
Turn 9: NE & fortify

This assumes no RoP - until we publicly join GoW & ND, there is no need to allow RP/GS to find out we have an RoP with their enemies... so, barring emergency, we will move our units slowly, as if in an enemy territory. BUT - we will do our best to stay away from the roads, to not hamper the movement of GoW/ND troops.

GoW should send us their world map on this turn - we shall use it to pinpoint the best location(s) for the deployment of LEF.

[vondrack]

I am happy to relay a message form Aggie:

Hope all is going well. I am pleased to report a stunning victory over GS forces.(and the best part is they don't know it yet) We destroyed 8knights and 3pike and seized 8catapults and a settler. All for only the lose of 6 ansars and 2 riders. Though huge, this victory is only the open battle in a longer conflict. But nontheless, GS has tasted defeat.
Aggie

[redstar1]

Woohoo!

[Sharpe]

Hasn't there been any alliance chats since Sept 4? Long time without any discussion I think .

[Tiberius]

What are we going to say to the Bob alliance about our following research goal? They may want to push us for Mil. Tradition and we just don't want this yet.

We need Music Theory, then navigation, and after that we'll see. We definitely don't want to rush Mil. Tradition. As much as we want GS hurt, an invasion of Stormia is not what we are looking for, so let's keep this in mind for a future chat.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Hasn't there been any alliance chats since Sept 4? Long time without any discussion I think .

Sorry, my fault. I regularly attend the alliance chats held every Thursday at 6:00pm GMT and keep in touch with GoW and ND. Last 2 chats were along the lines "we will keep in touch" - nothing really discussed, as the game is progressing so slowly, and I have pretty much forgotten about them just minutes after they were over. I will have a look if I can dig the logs somewhere... just in case someone wants to read through them.

[vondrack]

Found the logs - attaching them. I hope you will be able to get them from here. If not, tell me, and I will upload them to redstar's server.

Mind you... reading these logs is IMHO a waste of time...

[redstar1]

"A waste of time"......

what are you trying to cover up V? You don't want us to read them do you?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by redstar1
"A waste of time"......

what are you trying to cover up V? You don't want us to read them do you?

Have you wasted your time already?
You'd know what I am talking about...

[vondrack]

OK, this Thursday, the alliance chatlog is worth quick reading, I believe, even if you find no breaking news there... all of the current issues were at least touched - the possibility of an invasion onto Stormia, our research, and the LEF1 route:

Session Start: Thu Sep 25 20:10:30 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
* Now talking in #gow_cofa
vondrack: hello!
Zayxus: hi
vondrack: how did you like the resource distribution?
Aggie: i have done some calculations and have come to the conclusion that when we have 30 riders near alamo(in 3 turns at most) that atatck on pamploma is possible and could work
Zayxus: sounded nice
Aggie: it was really nice
Aggie: i almost wish gs had gps o they could see it
vondrack: LoL
vondrack: yes
vondrack: I almost feel sorry for them
vondrack: all their skill and expertise is not going to help
Aggie: me too, just a bad role of the dice
vondrack: without saltpeter, they are doomed to fail
Aggie: it happens
vondrack: yep
Aggie: and it usually happens in diety when i actually have a chance to win
vondrack: hehe
vondrack: well, anything to discuss today?
Aggie: actually yes
vondrack: ok, go ahead
Aggie: what is next on the science agenda
vondrack: ah
vondrack: to be honest, we are now occupied with a research project of ours
vondrack: nothing that affects the war
Aggie: that is fine
Aggie: good luck
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: do you feel it is imperative/necessary/important that we rush towards Military Tradition?
Aggie: no, since they don't have sp
vondrack: exactly my thinking
vondrack: I assume the war would be over before we could get to it anyway
Aggie: yap, for the next war maybe
Aggie: i was aslo thinking and calculating that pamploma could be atatcked
vondrack: oops... which one that is going to be?
Aggie: no idea actually, i hoped to have a lets finish of gs war
vondrack: hmmm, that's is an issue I am bound to discuss
Aggie: ok
vondrack: since after we found out the distribution of saltpeter
vondrack: concerns were raised in our forum
vondrack: you will probably remember that we made it clear we would not get involved nor support an invasion of Stormia
Aggie: yes i did
vondrack: I need to make sure that you understand this still applies
vondrack: a war that would involve invading Stormia would not have our support
Aggie: it does and actually the desire to invade gs is less, since they are no threat without sp, at least until well into the industrial age
vondrack: I am glad to hear that
Aggie: to be honest i don't think an invasion as such is even possible at this point
vondrack: we are seeking sort of a balance of power in the world
vondrack: you & ND on Bob and GS on Stormia are part of this "new order"
vondrack: in our thinking
Aggie: the only possible atatck considerd by me personally was to atack the old vox area and give it back to them. but never seriously planned
vondrack: and - you are correct that with no saltpeter, GS is much less of a threat even if left unharrased
Aggie: after this war I'll actually welcome a time of building
vondrack: ok, hearing that makes me (and will make the rest of my team) happy
Zayxus: to finish that war might take some more time.
vondrack: oh - definitely
vondrack: I do not expect driving GS back to the sea to be easy
Aggie: we still have a long way to go to finsih this one
Aggie: i suspect our victory woke them up, they'll avoid mistakes stwice
vondrack: their lack of saltpeter is more of an assurance they will not be able to do harm to you than an assurance that you will be able to defeat them easily
Zayxus: feel to busy to think about attacking GS at thier continent once
Aggie: i agree
vondrack: ok, glad to hear that - I will report that to my team
Aggie: actually i was thinking along these lines. We take our rp's cities barcelona and pamploma etc and then tell gs we'll give you peace and let you dpart in peace
Zayxus: GS is still strong in production and must have still a big lot of ships.
Aggie: they are i'm sure
vondrack: definitely - they are not to be underestimated
vondrack: they may also get a bit desperate once they find out about the saltpeter problem
vondrack: resorting to more daring strategy
Aggie: yap
Zayxus: RP did move units out of Pamplona and GS units re moving in direction of Pamplona
vondrack: you better make sure the sources of saltpeter in the Southern Bob are secured by that time
Aggie: luckily they think us fr more injured than we truly were byu the battle
vondrack: yes, I got that feeling from Arrian's posts
vondrack: that's good
Aggie: that works to our advanatge
Zayxus: Every unit beaten of GS or RP costs us 1 unit lost
Zayxus: I assume
vondrack: how long before you hook up your saltpeters?
Zayxus: ND: may be 5 turns
Aggie: right now i am off 2 thoughts. 1) attack abrcelona nd drive up the coast(ignoring the forces in the south) or do we concentrate all at pamploma take it and then do over the moutains
Aggie: for us longer
vondrack: that's actually pretty fine (the time to hook it), it will confuse them about the source of gp even more
Aggie: we have to get the city nearby to eapnd cultural 15+ turns
vondrack: we are not going to have ours hooked earlier then in ~7-8 turns
vondrack: Aggie - you do not consider building a colony on Baby Bob?
Aggie: i considered it but was overruled
Aggie: though i'll try afgain
Aggie: but have a galley with a slave on its way to there, just incase
vondrack: ok... perhaps securing that source on Bob is more important, I am not sure
Zayxus: ND might give a second salpeter to GOW?
Aggie: that could work, i was going to offer our 3 workers for that purpose, due to indust they work as fast as yours
vondrack: we would also be able to provide one saltpeter, but in about ~10 turns, I think
vondrack: which may be too late
Aggie: the galley will get to baby bob in 8 with the slave worker for possible colony. if the situation rewuires it i think a colony would be approved
vondrack: we have sources enough, but they are all, by coincidence, out of our territory
vondrack: our current cultural borders, I mean
Zayxus: at Aggie: you coould move these worker to salpeter at coast west, if you like.
Aggie: well the war is going well so for, my goal is a standing force of 50 riders and we'll rech that in 4 turns
vondrack: speaking of workers... we will not be able to move LEF1 this turn as planned, because there is a worker blocking their way
Aggie: will do, i was going to road that moutain toward toledo, but this is more important
vondrack: we will thus turn to the North
Aggie: ok
Zayxus: I saw a worker of GOW on a road
vondrack: yeah, that's 'im
vondrack: sucker...
Aggie: yap, thats the one we took to cause war he is mining
Zayxus: GOW might move it to salpeter
vondrack: our LEF groups will stay out of your roads, to cause no traffic jams
Aggie: thats the only downside to using a captured worker from you(they work at the same speed as your), but you can't move past
Aggie: thats an idea, i'll cancel this turn, also maybe i'll move the slave to help too
Aggie: i mean cancel the mine
Aggie: as you noticed the 3 workers just finsihed the jungle road, they'll move next turn
Zayxus: By the way: ND canceled two workers at Essigbarfor other uses.
vondrack: that would help us, too, allowing us to follow the original route set for LEF1
Aggie: ok
Aggie: brb
Zayxus: ND will build a road east of Bilbao as reserve connection
Zayxus: at vondrack: you sended back gold, right?
vondrack: yes
vondrack: you sent it twice, so I returned one payment back along with the tech
Zayxus: oh, I understand.
vondrack: it happens when you intiate the trade twice - a known PBEM bug
vondrack: you cannot see it, but it's twice there
Zayxus: that is really a hard bug
vondrack: yeah... better to do trades and diplomacy at the end of every turn
Aggie: we had similar wih the iron trade too
vondrack: ok, guys - if there is nothing else to discuss, I'd go... still have some stuff to do here
Aggie: thats about all, but thanks for gp
vondrack: our pleasure
Zayxus: for my part, seems so, thanks
Aggie: zayrus if we decided to attck pamploma in 3 turns could you have some asar(not the southern ones) help and defrsninves to sweep in after the victory since we will take it but gift to you
vondrack: ok - give my/our best regards to your teammates
vondrack: see you in a week
Aggie: i will
Aggie: cya
vondrack: bye
Session Close: Thu Sep 25 20:42:09 2003

[Tiberius]

Studying the latest save I noticed an interesting fact. This turn we would have been able to sell iron to GS !!
Therefor they must be using the "vox tactics": they disconnect their iron, build some cheap horsemen, then reconnect the iron and upgrade the horses to knights.

I'm not sure whether this info has any importance, but we can share it with our allies.

Actually if I think a bit about it, it is important for us. Why? Because this means that GS is using its huge GNP mostly for upgrades, researching very slowly. We can obtain a significant science lead.
Btw, they still don't have Invention yet. The longer this war will be, the better for us.

[redstar1]

Well spotted. i actually looked at the turn this time and I missed that. I'd say its very significant indeed....

[Kloreep]

Could we see the log for the latest chat?

[vondrack]

Sure.

Sorry for not posting it yesterday, but I went to bed right after finishing the turn - felt quite tired.

Here is the log:

Session Start: Thu Oct 02 19:57:36 2003
vondrack: hello, Aggie!
Aggiemowa: hi there
Aggiemowa: hope all is well
vondrack: yup, at least on our side
vondrack: and with you?
Aggiemowa: things seem to be going good.
vondrack: great
Aggiemowa: we spotted alarge offensive gs force and it seems to be going toward alamo
vondrack: how large?
Aggiemowa: and rp has put more troops to our north(of alamao) gs forces =14knights,5mi and rp has 5mi
Aggiemowa: +protecting pikes.
vondrack: it would be nice to crush that stack
vondrack: do you have troops enough to?
Aggiemowa: it would be close. at the end of the coming turn we'll have 30 riders in Alamo
vondrack: do you plan to attack the stack?
vondrack: or sneak past it?
Aggiemowa: i lean toward sneaking past it
vondrack: letting them attack your defenders in Alamo?
vondrack: hello, Zayxus!
Zayxus: hello
Aggiemowa: hi zayxus
vondrack: Zayxus - I need to briefly check something with you, so that I can play our turn
vondrack: LEF2 would be moving NE this turn, onto the saltpeter mountain
vondrack: is that ok?
vondrack: or do you plan to move your workers ther?
vondrack: there
vondrack: and start connecting it
Zayxus: which mountain, there are two with salpeter
vondrack: the one nr Arnablanca
vondrack: the other one is out of our reach
Zayxus: that at Arnablanca is for GOW
Aggiemowa: i was debating waiting till the stack was outside Alamo, then atatck pamploma, raze alamo and roads around it, and leave the Gs forces with nothing and mountains to cross, while we rush toward the coastal cities. It is alos possible we could attcak pamploma and get back to Alamo
Aggiemowa: sorry I was typing. Our workers are srill 2 away from that mountain, so it is ok
Zayxus: yes, agreed
vondrack: cool. oh, and - Aggie, LEF3 is landing this turn
vondrack: we can land W or SW of D.D.D.
vondrack: which one do you prefer?
Aggiemowa: ket me see which is best
vondrack: I would prefer SW
Aggiemowa: sw is fine then
vondrack: then E-E, E-E
vondrack: k, SW it is
vondrack: well, anything else to discuss today?
Aggiemowa: not much with the slow pace of turns
vondrack: if not, I would go play the turn...
Aggiemowa: we will declare war and offer peace this turn to break iron, if it is ok
vondrack: with us?
vondrack: ok
Aggiemowa: after this the bi horse build will be over
Zayxus: with ND?
Aggiemowa: will need iron in 4 more to upgrade another 10, but I'll wait till then to get iron again
Aggiemowa: no with lego,I accepted it from lego last turn since we can break without attacking
Zayxus: pretty
vondrack: k, just PM me when you need it again
vondrack: how come you can't do the same with ND?
Aggiemowa: well since we renegotioated peace it can't be broken by negotiation within 20 turns, so we must take worker catpult etc
vondrack: ah, right
Aggiemowa: a little bug to the war break iron strat
vondrack: yeah
vondrack: ok, I will stay logged - but will be semi-gone playing the turn
Zayxus: all right
Zayxus: what does GOW plan to move?
Aggiemowa: we'll just move the riders to alamo and start 4 more coming down from the north
Aggiemowa: with the 8 catapults we hit the units to the north of alamo
Aggiemowa: we had 4 hits and 4 misses
Zayxus: did you destroy one? suppose not.
Aggiemowa: unfortunately not but the elite mi is down to 4 instead of 5. I figure we can shell and then if they try to move as a grouo back we'll get them then
Zayxus: they, RP, seem to collect units
Aggiemowa: i think gs is moving toward Alamo with their forces and hopefuylly the think we have less forces than we do and will try to attack it
Aggiemowa: rp does I am glad to see them moving out of pamploma
Zayxus: me too, when has the time come to attack Pamplona?
Aggiemowa: in 300 or 310
Aggiemowa: we will have 34 riders in 300 and 30riders in 300
Aggiemowa: i meant 34 riders in 310
Aggiemowa: the big question is "what will gs stack do"
Zayxus: would you take along the catapults to reduce the number of citizens?
Zayxus: what happens to Alamo, could it be hold? suppose not.
Aggiemowa: well if ALL the GS/rp units we see attck it, with 30 riders in it, it will hold with ease
Aggiemowa: i don't know if GS/RP are arrogant enough to think we have little there though
Aggiemowa: but why else would rp move troops to that mountain
Zayxus: my idea now is: to attack Pamplona from SE of it together with the catapults. Use of catapilts to weaken Pamolona. what do you think?
Zayxus: from SW
Aggiemowa: that actually is an idea I though of too.
Zayxus: still there is a road for the catapults.
Aggiemowa: i just don't know and haven't figured if we could do that while defedning alamo
Zayxus: until the forest
Aggiemowa: and forces there have a 25% bonus
Zayxus: that is the point: defending Alamo
Aggiemowa: want to hear "EVIL" plan
Aggiemowa: we let Gs/rp forces get right next to Alamo. then that turn we attack pamploma, if it is more expensive and we have less than 15riders in Alamo we will raze Alamo and pillage all roads, making them go slowly through hills/mountains
Aggiemowa: that same turn our forces could get to the outskirts of new madrid
Aggiemowa: next turn the coastral cities fall and barcelona goes under seize
Aggiemowa: but the idea of gs/RP forces throwing themselves at Alamo is very tempting too
Zayxus: seems a possiuble way
Zayxus: at the moment, to keep Alamo: I think: move about 10 Riders near Pamplona with catapults to weaken it from now.
MasterZen: yo
Aggiemowa: for the record I estimate it will aprox 50 offesnive units to take alamo
Aggiemowa: hi there MZ
Zayxus: hello
MasterZen: greeting fellow Demogypticans and Legomen
Zayxus: greetings
vondrack: hi, MZ!
Aggiemowa: we are just discussing possible strategy
Zayxus: GS and RP seems to focus on Alamo, what to do with Alamo, when attacking Pamplona?
MasterZen: cool
vondrack: I am just... not really here
vondrack: playing the Lego turn
Aggiemowa: finally
vondrack:
vondrack: COORDINATION, Aggie, that's the key...
Aggiemowa: yes it is
vondrack: I did not want to move our knights onto the 'peter until getting clearance from you
Aggiemowa: i appreciate that too
Aggiemowa: we could always gift alamo to lego and they could gift it to nd with their defesnive units, j/k
vondrack: LoL
Aggiemowa: though vondrack you know if you like we could arrange to atack a nm with a warrior to trigger your GA
vondrack: we know that - but it's generally considered a very cheesy thing to do
Aggiemowa: yap it is, you'll have to earn in in real battle
vondrack: we would rather do it in a bit more noble way...
Aggiemowa: well thebopportunity might come up
vondrack: might come up?
Aggiemowa: well you never know if gs will invade the north
Aggiemowa: in that case you'll probably get a chance
MasterZen: Vox might invade you
MasterZen:
vondrack: Ummm... we do not plan to send any mercs over to Bob. Muskets only.
Aggiemowa: ok
Aggiemowa: thats fine
Aggiemowa: just thought I'd mention it, doubt gs will invade the north anyway
MasterZen: yeah I doubt it either, they lost their chance to do it
Aggiemowa: and if all goes well in 3 turns either they will have broke up there southern forces on the rocks of Alamo or RP will be virtually dead
Aggiemowa: wither way we all win
Aggiemowa: of course there is still room for another big GS army somewhere
MasterZen: hopefully not
vondrack: hmmm... just thought I would mention it...
Zayxus: GS must not keep back units on their continent
vondrack: Arnelos talked to us
vondrack: besides other things that are not worth mentioning
vondrack: he said
vondrack: they were "gaining ground"
vondrack: he seemed to be pretty content about the war
MasterZen: hahaha
Aggiemowa: i think they all are under the impression that the victory over the stack cost us alot
vondrack: just mentioning that... I, too, believe he just does know... but anyway, do not rest on your laurels, guys
vondrack: yeah
MasterZen: well for the sake of things, let's pretend so
Aggiemowa: thats one reason I'm not attacking the force on the moutain, i am encouraging that idea too
Aggiemowa: we're not, we have 15 more riders in the pipeline
Aggiemowa: and marketplaces to pay for them
MasterZen: we turned from raging warmongers to hippie builders
MasterZen: peace duuuude!
Aggiemowa: yes we did
Aggiemowa: but only in a few citiews the rest are still blood thirsty warmongers
vondrack: hehe
Zayxus: any response of GS to the mail?
Zayxus: cease fire with RP?
Aggiemowa: RP said no point
Aggiemowa: gs i was afraif they'd accept and wanted to get the wording perfect or not at ll
Aggiemowa: if they by some means did accept, they could really cause us problems
Zayxus: yes GS would get near to Alamo
Aggiemowa: yap and would get gp before it ended
Aggiemowa: basically we'll have to play the pamploma atatck based on what GS does
Zayxus: what might GS paln to do, they seem to collect units
Aggiemowa: i am uncertain. They could stay together and go fro alamo or merida, or they could send the knights to alamo attack and MI/Pike to merida. But with rp getting pounded on mountain they have to atatck alamo soon or no help from rp
Aggiemowa: if they go for merida, pillaging the roads from there to Alamo could effective. Then we would have the time to deal with Pamploma AND defend Alamo
Zayxus: when should Gs attack Alamo, if we were they?
Aggiemowa: probbaly turn after next if knights along or let me see map for time if they all atatck
Aggiemowa: 320
Aggiemowa: ofcourse by that time we have 36 riders in the south
Zayxus: ND could attack those 2 Knights south. what other tasks do you see for the Ansar south?
Aggiemowa: harrassment of isolated forces and if they DO send their stack into the open(and they must to get anywhere) it is possible we could attck it with our forces and destroy it
Aggiemowa: we might not destroy it in 1 turn but it only contains 17 (3) defense units
MasterZen: "only"
Aggiemowa: with 30 riders+say 10 ansar we could
Aggiemowa:
Aggiemowa: I love having these numbers
Aggiemowa: the question is "is that victory worth delsying the fall of pamploma"
MasterZen: depends on our estimated casualties for attacking that stack
MasterZen: and how fast we could recover
MasterZen: I think the moral blow of taking Pamplona would be much much better
Aggiemowa: yes indeed it would be
Aggiemowa: but just wanted to put all ideas out
Zayxus: seems to me , too; I just think about to build catapults to attack Pamplona as ND together with musketmen. But would take time to build.
Zayxus: I wonder , Pamplona is in such a peace
Zayxus: the Pikes around on the hills seem to hold the mountains, but do not cover catapults against Pamplona
Aggiemowa: well we have the 8 catpults and I theory we could move enough riders to cover them. But then again in an exchange us outside vs them inside and fortifed, we might take loses doe to catpuls. Also our numbers surprise could be lost
Zayxus: right
Zayxus: muscets are the better defensive units
Aggiemowa: yes
Zayxus: at least one catapult near Pamplona should irritate RP.
Zayxus: but ND needs more defensive units
Aggiemowa: you know id not for all our desires to win quickly, an arguement can be made that time only helps us with our GA's etc
Zayxus: what should be thought of, when time passes: be ready to attack GS, when GS moves in the open near Alamo
Aggiemowa: brb back figuring troops times
Zayxus: ...
Aggiemowa: sorry i figured that by 340 we will have 41 riders in position to attack pamploma and that numbers will grown by at least 2 a turn
MasterZen: time to cook...
* MasterZen is now known as MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]
Aggiemowa: the marketplances will increase that by at around 1 a turn I think
Aggiemowa: hummm food
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: hehe, I'm going to eat Chicken today...
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Gathering Chicken...
Aggiemowa: good for you
Zayxus: what do you think, when you run against a +100% defense? Do you agree to that?
Aggiemowa: my thoughs exactly
Aggiemowa: yes no doubt
Aggiemowa: +fort
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: why 100%?
Aggiemowa: so each pike at pamploma is 6.75 on defesne
Aggiemowa: hill+50% pop bonus.
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Pamplona is not on a hil
Aggiemowa: it isn't , are you sure
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: check
Aggiemowa: if not we have virtually no problem
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: it's on grassland if I'm not mistaken, do you have the save open?
Aggiemowa: nope I can't start civ while on net
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: ok, let me check
vondrack: grassland
Zayxus: do aou have a very old save to check it without Pamplona?
vondrack: just right-click
vondrack: I am having the save opened
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: grassland confirmed
Zayxus: nice
Aggiemowa: Wooooohooo
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: told ya :P
Aggiemowa: then pike are 5.25
Zayxus: attacked by 4 points
Aggiemowa: yap
Zayxus: is it worth it?
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: btw, isn't there a bug in PTW where the walls still count in cities over size 6?
Zayxus: before using catapults?
Aggiemowa: humm i didn't know about that
Zayxus: me either
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I think there was, i don't know if it has been corrected though
Aggiemowa: if so it might as well be on a hill.
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Trip might know, I'll ask him later