DIPLO: Glory of War contact LOG

[Cort Haus]

GoW/ND chat

(copy in current diplo thread)

{14:28} {MasterZen} ok, now that we're all here
{14:28} {MasterZen} let me put up our side of the agenda:
{14:28} {Cort} ok
{14:28} {MasterZen} 1) tech trades (including early industrial)
{14:28} {MasterZen} 2) discussion on the Lego screenshot
{14:29} {MasterZen} 3) geo-strategy
{14:29} {MasterZen} and of course, anything else you guys want to discuss
{14:29} {Cort} sounds good
{14:29} {asleepathewheel} great
{14:30} {asleepathewheel} Is someone logging this, and can we get a copy afterwards
{14:30} {MasterZen} I am logging
{14:30} {MasterZen} I can e-mail you guys a copy no problem
{14:30} {Cort} cool
{14:30} {MasterZen} oh boy, guess who's coming...
{14:31} * Trip has joined #GoW_CoFA
{14:31} {Cort} :gasp:
{14:31} {aggie} hi mr eye
{14:31} {Trip} greets
{14:31} {Trip} what've I missed
{14:31} {Trip}
{14:31} * MasterZen pokes the eye with a toothpick
{14:32} {aggie} we just agree that we'd all vote for lux for the UN victory congrats
{14:32} {MasterZen} yeah, Lux, you really showed us how to play civ
{14:32} {Trip} yay
{14:32} {Cort} so, item #1 - tech trades
{14:32} {MasterZen} yes
{14:32} {Trip} the ISDG teams did it worse than me
{14:33} {aggie} indeed
{14:33} {MasterZen} I'm not sure if there's anything left to trade in the medieval.
Just an interesting note thoguh: Vox will get a free tech
{14:33} {Cort} Indeed
{14:33} {Cort} Zayxus, do you wish to offer us anything for Physics?
{14:33} {MasterZen} well, there's still Economics and Theory of Gravity, perhaps we
can trade these
{14:34} {Cort} When Lego build Smiths, Economics becomes as useful as Music Theory
{14:34} {MasterZen} it's still a required tech though, isn't it?
{14:34} {Zayxus} well , physics has a price, let me see...
{14:35} {aggie} isn't eco required though for next age though
{14:35} {Cort} btw - they started Magellans in Jackson (Lego)
{14:35} {MasterZen} perhaps a pre-build?
{14:35} {aggie} i imagine it must be a place holder
{14:35} {Cort} - or about to finish it, if it's a Palace prebuild, as we suspect.
It'll fire their GA
{14:35} {Cort} no Eco aint mandatory
{14:35} {aggie} just what we don't need
{14:35} {MasterZen} then it's just ToG
{14:36} {Cort} We'll have that soon
{14:36} {aggie} we'll we have mt soon
{14:36} {Cort} ok
{14:36} {Cort} How about a 3-way on Nat, Steam, and Medicine?
{14:37} {MasterZen} sounds like a plan. Although perhaps we might want to research
Steam ASAP
{14:37} {aggie} i am eager to see where coal is too
{14:37} {MasterZen} perhaps a 3-way collaboration on Steam, and then each of us do
the next 3 techs
{14:38} {Trip} I know
{14:38} {Cort} The fastest way for you to see Steam is to research Medicine and
Trade it for our Steam.
{14:38} {Cort} I mean see coal
{14:38} * MasterZen hasn't looked at the industrial tech tree in a looooong time
{14:39} {aggie} i ahve but for conquest not ptw
{14:39} {MasterZen} hehe, the only C3C game I've played since the beta is AU501
{14:40} {MasterZen} and I'm still not in the industrial
{14:40} {Cort} The tree is in my head
{14:40} {Cort} - and in front of me
{14:41} * MasterZen wonders what free tech Vox will get
{14:41} {Cort} Nat, hopefully
{14:41} {MasterZen} i'd prefer they get Medicine actually...
{14:41} {MasterZen} you know who they're going to give it to afterall..
{14:41} {Zayxus} to GS: for Physics: 600 Beaker or Gold as offer
{14:42} {MasterZen} see this is the thing. The quicker we get Steam, the quicker we
can also get Industrialization
{14:43} {Cort} Zayxus - is that an offer of 600g for Physics?
{14:43} {Zayxus} yes.
{14:43} {Cort} MZ - fine, we understand. Is that a Uni Suff prebuild in Imperial
there?
{14:44} {Cort} Zaxyus - we'll put that to our Forum,
{14:44} {aggie} good question wish i knew the answer
{14:44} {MasterZen} by definition, GoWers are not affected by WW
{14:45} {MasterZen} in fact we suffer reverse-WW. If we are not at war for too
long, our people get restless. THAT's the real reason we attacked RP. Just don't
tell anyone
{14:45} {aggie} well at least our players do
{14:46} {MasterZen} especially H_E and GF
{14:46} {Cort} Hows this, MZ. Our Steam for Your Medicine, then our electricity for
your industrialisation
{14:46} {Cort} aggie - you'd better go attack Lego then
{14:46} {aggie} well i'm a man who just wants piece
{14:47} {MasterZen} sounds like an idea Cort
{14:47} {Cort} a piece of Lego, a piece of Stormia, yeajh I know
{14:47} {MasterZen} on both accounts
{14:47} {Cort} THen ND, once we bring 'em up can do Nat and trade us that for Steam
and Medicine
{14:48} {Zayxus} (to Cort: all right)
{14:49} {MasterZen} what about the Vox tech? Maybe we can trade something and get
it easier...
{14:49} {aggie} first we need vox up to dfate
{14:49} {Cort} We're assuming Vox are working for Lego
{14:49} {MasterZen} of course
{14:50} {Cort} so we're not trading them physics for demo, for example, before Lego
have Physics
{14:50} {aggie} but with NDA's it mightwork. I wonder what tech lego is doing
{14:50} {MasterZen} that brings us to part 2)
{14:50} {MasterZen} Lego is doing 10% research
{14:50} * MasterZen goes to look at the screenie
{14:50} {Cort} Guys, the key is for all of us 3 teams is to keep Lego out of the
tech loop, and make them research everything themselves
{14:50} {Cort} MZ - still at 10% - that was 2/3 turmns ago
{14:50} {aggie} agreed
{14:51} {Cort} Lego finished off Economics that turn, according to the beaker
count, so they may have been able to hold back the slider for the last turn
{14:51} {Cort} Aggie - excellent!
{14:52} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{14:52} {Cort} We haven't traded a single tech, or our second lux to Lego because
we want to delay them economically
{14:52} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{14:53} {MasterZen} after they finish the Sistine and JS Bachs they won't even need
luxes
{14:53} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{14:53} {asleepathewheel} assuming they ever finish sistine
{14:53} {MasterZen} ahhhhhh
{14:53} {asleepathewheel} ah yes, the perpetual prebuild
{14:53} {Cort} Hey shall we talk about THAT
{14:54} {asleepathewheel} I wonder if they knew that going in, or just noticed the
loophole later
{14:54} {MasterZen} yeah what the hell
{14:54} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{14:54} {MasterZen} you connection is a piece of crap Trip, even worse than mine
{14:55} {Cort} If they switch it to Smiths, the rest of the teams should put out a
joint statement saying the deal on Sistine is over. No-one traded them a 600s
prebuild for the whole game
{14:55} {MasterZen} are you actually planning to build it?
{14:55} {Trip} :P
{14:55} {Cort} NO.
{14:56} {Cort} I mean no.
{14:56} {Trip} haha
{14:56} {MasterZen} lol
{14:56} {Trip} NOOOOOOO!
{14:56} {Trip} ;D
{14:56} {aggie} what a slip in a chat, ohhhh NOOOOO
{14:56} {MasterZen} 4ABSOLUTLEY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ****ING WAY!!!!!
{14:56} {Cort} Though we might if there's a cascade anytime
{14:57} {MasterZen} Sistines... that's such an un-GoW-like wonder
{14:57} {Cort} Actually, the best thing would be to let them build it then trash
Legopolis, so it AND JSB are gone for ever!
{14:57} {aggie} or you can take legopolis and then rush a palace their with a GL
{14:58} {MasterZen} GL's are best used to rush warriors :P
{14:58} {Cort} Actually we thought 'Pernies was a bit of an un-GoW-like wonder ...
but there are better things ahead, right?
{14:58} {MasterZen} hahahaha
{14:58} {MasterZen} we like science. Gives us new weapons to kick butt with
{14:59} {aggie} I must leave now, have fun
{14:59} {Trip} like Sanitation
{14:59} {Trip}
{14:59} {MasterZen} cya aggie
{14:59} {Cort} cya Aggie
{15:00} * aggie has quit IRC (Quit: )
{15:01} {MasterZen} holy ****... you have no clue what just happened
{15:02} {Cort} what?
{15:02} {MasterZen} vondrack popped up in our other channel
{15:04} {Cort} So he's seen us all here? hehe
{15:04} {MasterZen} nope
{15:04} {MasterZen} this room is private and password-protected
{15:04} {Trip} secret, not private :P
{15:04} {MasterZen} secret AND private
{15:04} {Trip} nrstk
{15:05} {Trip} if it was private it would have a p too
{15:05} * opd has joined #GoW_CoFA
{15:05} {opd} hey
{15:05} {MasterZen} lo
{15:05} {Cort} Hiya OPD
{15:06} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{15:06} * Trip{gone} has joined #gow_cofa
{15:06} {Cort} So where were we - Lego's prebuild or tech deals?
{15:06} {MasterZen} Lego
{15:06} * Trip{gone} is now known as Trip
{15:06} {Cort} They have a lot of luxuries in there for a 1-lux civ.
{15:07} {MasterZen} yep
{15:07} {Cort} ...mostly yours, I think, Zayxus
{15:07} * MasterZen looks suspiciously at Zayxus... hee hee
{15:08} {Cort} Lego have a loose build, with hospitals they can go full on metro
everywhere and eat us all.
{15:08} {MasterZen} those are GoWian grapes though
{15:09} {MasterZen} I can tell. You can just feel the drunken power of the wine
{15:09} * MasterZen opens a bottle of vintage 510 AD Dom Zenignon
{15:10} {Cort} However, without luxuries thay'll struggle to keep top pop levels
happy - even with the odd drop of GoW Cabernet Sauvignon
{15:10} {MasterZen} this leads us to 3)...
{15:10} {MasterZen} why don't we just invade their ass?
{15:11} {Cort} Do they have a sea wall?
{15:11} {MasterZen} nope
{15:11} {Cort} Your KIDDING!
{15:11} {MasterZen} not last time we checked...
{15:12} {MasterZen} plus, there's like a gazillion landing sites
{15:12} {Cort} Well go ahead guys. You killed all our units, remember
{15:12} {MasterZen} not all of them...
{15:12} {Cort} We have the remains on our wall.
{15:13} {MasterZen} we can always sign a REAL NAP this time...
{15:13} {Cort} Probably, yes.
{15:13} {MasterZen} see, with all due respect, a GoW/ND invasion of Lego would
kinda leave our asses unprotected... hey, we have to think of everything
{15:14} {Cort} We'd probbaly call it a non-intervention agreement or something. NAP
is such a dirty word these days.
{15:14} {MasterZen} yes, very
{15:15} {MasterZen} well the window of opportunity for a successful invasion of
Lego slowly vanishes turn by turn...
{15:16} {Cort} So we'd give the assurances you require. There is little mood for
adventure in Stormia now. We read books and plan our late industrial defences
...
{15:16} {MasterZen} plus, I'd hate Lego to win without a real fight
{15:16} {Cort} Absolutely, they must bleed.
{15:17} {MasterZen} the other possibility is beating them to Tanks by a long shot
and then doing a late industrial war
{15:17} {Cort} Nice to hit 'em before rails, though.
{15:17} {MasterZen} yeah
{15:18} {Cort} Why don't they make a sea wall? It's only 100 tiles.
{15:18} {MasterZen} maybe they don't have 100 units...
{15:18} {Cort} Are they still on Bob?
{15:18} {asleepathewheel} have they withdrawn their knights from bob?
{15:18} {asleepathewheel} doh
{15:18} {Cort} Stormians think alike!
{15:19} {MasterZen} lol
{15:19} {MasterZen} I don't see any
{15:20} {MasterZen} well let's agree on something
{15:20} {Cort} Yes, agreement.
{15:20} {MasterZen} Re: 1)
{15:21} {MasterZen} In theory we do ND - Nat, GoW - Med, GS - Steam
{15:21} {Cort} Yes.
{15:21} {MasterZen} we keep an eye out though for Vox, perhaps they might be
willing to trade
{15:21} {Cort} OK
{15:22} * MasterZen has been sucking up to Vox as of late precisely thinking of
that...
{15:22} {Cort} is that what the wine is all about
{15:22} {MasterZen} well maybe I can get them drunk too
{15:22} {Cort} lol
{15:23} {Cort} We have an idea about Vox
{15:23} {MasterZen} then again, it's usally me who's drunk... hehe
{15:23} {Cort} - but we're confused.
{15:23} {MasterZen} i'm all ears
{15:24} {Cort} I mean, we assume that Vox is working for Lego, but in our deals
they seem almost independent.
{15:24} {Cort} THey're trying to flog us Democracy.
{15:24} {Cort} Thay won't take lux, they want cash or tech
{15:24} {MasterZen} well. IMO, they're on their own but probably giving/receiveing
techs with Lego
{15:24} {Cort} But every time we get a tech that Lego has, Vox gets it that turn.
{15:26} {Cort} We think they're trying to trade Demo for a mandatory tech that Lego
don't have. We said "you'll have to wait before we can pay you physics, for
certain other parties to get it"
{15:26} {Cort} And we're waiting to see what they say to that. Why would they try
to trade for tech, when Lego will give them it all,
{15:27} {Cort} to get thm into the Ind Age for the freebie.
{15:27} {MasterZen} of course
{15:27} {MasterZen} you know, if Lux were still around, we'd probably be
gang-banging them to give us their free tech too
{15:28} {Cort} We might try and get RP to find out for us. they and Vox have ...
empathy
{15:28} {MasterZen} lol!
{15:29} {Cort} MZ, whad do you think of a stack of RP conquistadors teaming through
the dark heart of Lego and pillaging their resources?
{15:29} {MasterZen} whoa, that'd be interesting
{15:29} {MasterZen} explorer/conquistador pillaging is a devastating tactic
{15:30} {MasterZen} we had so much fun with it in a modern start MP I played a few
months ago
{15:30} {Cort} I bet they'd be interested. THey have some time left on Navigation,
though. It might be too late for your window.
{15:31} {Cort} Speaking of Navigation- Lego have started Magellan
{15:31} {MasterZen} yeah you told us that a while ago
{15:31} {Cort} If it was a prebuild its GA next turn
{15:32} {Cort} How about spying on Jackson? It's 178g. We could split that 3 ways
and reveal some map. In fact, we could buy much of their map through investigating
{15:33} {MasterZen} true
{15:33} {MasterZen} maybe we'll reveal the giant doughnut shape
{15:33} {Cort} Maybe wait a few turns on Jackson to see if they Build Smith's
(GA) or Sistine.
{15:34} {MasterZen} GoW would have to wait a bit too, we're a bit short on funds
right now
{15:34} {MasterZen} would ND agree to this?
{15:34} * MasterZen looks at Zayxus...

[Cort Haus]

{15:35} {Cort} If they get their GA now it'll be too early for them. As long as
non-one trades them Physics, Magnetism and ToG, they'll waste their GA not being
able to research IA tech, and go 4 turn on MA tech instead.
{15:36} {Cort} Funds - yeah, sorry 'bout that, Magnets are ready when you are, btw

{15:36} {MasterZen} ahh good
{15:37} {Cort} Frigates! Ocean!
{15:37} {MasterZen} we have to scrape up the 200g first. I'd calculate in about 6-7
turns we'll send you the cash and tech
{15:37} {Cort} :gasp: we can wait for the cash. We need Metallurgy before that.
{15:37} {MasterZen} ok, we can trade techs this very turn
{15:38} {Cort} Then it's just ToG.
{15:38} {MasterZen} pretty much
{15:40} {MasterZen} can we also agree that IF we decide to attack Lego, it has to
be a joint GoW/ND/GS affair. If any of us doesn't want to, it just can't happen
(successfuly)
{15:40} {Cort} What do you need us for, apart from our obsolete units well away
from your ass?
{15:41} {MasterZen} surely GS can field about 20-30 cavs in the medium term?
{15:41} {MasterZen} obviously if you decide to assist, we'd provide GS with
saltpeter
{15:43} {Cort} I see, that would help, but we've burned our boats. They're mostly
now a library.
{15:43} {MasterZen} oh my, GS has turned hippie...
{15:43} {Cort} Fraid so.
{15:44} {Cort} We thought you'd be pleased
{15:44} {MasterZen} where's your warmonger bunch, Arrian Theseus and SR?
{15:45} {Cort} SR is retiring from DG play,
{15:45} {Cort} Theseus wants to build a space ship,
{15:47} {Cort} and Arrian is retraining the war-chickens as schoolteachers. We're
very happy
{15:47} {MasterZen} I see
{15:48} {Cort} You guys can have a ton of Cav pretty soon
{15:48} {MasterZen} you are aware that there's a big possibility that Stormia might
not have at least one space ship resource? Lego on the other hand...
{15:48} {Cort} I was joking about the space ship
{15:48} {Cort} We'd get our asses nuked long before that.
{15:49} {MasterZen} you know, it'd be funny as hell if Lego lacked uranium
{15:50} {Cort} Yes, it would. What terrain types does it appear on?
{15:51} {MasterZen} I believe forest, tundra... hills?
{15:51} {Trip} hehe
{15:51} * Trip goes to look where the uranium is...
{15:52} {Cort} So, are you worried about your butt, or do you actually NEED another
20-30 units
{15:52} {Trip} mountains
{15:52} {MasterZen} a bit of both actually
{15:52} {Cort} We've discussed it as a contingency, but we'd need to know what the
war aims are,
{15:52} {Trip} forest
{15:52} {Trip} not hills
{15:52} {MasterZen} war aims: reduction of Lego to the point that it is no longer a
sure-fire winner
{15:53} {Cort} sounds reasonable
{15:53} {MasterZen} obviously complete destruction of Lego is well near impossible
{15:53} {MasterZen} but a quick devastating strike against their core might do
enough damange
{15:53} {Cort} they need clipping, though
{15:54} {MasterZen} and I figure that the 3 of us together can probably pull it off
{15:54} {MasterZen} I mean, 30 cavs each = 90
{15:54} {Cort} a quick strike on the core sounds good
{15:55} {Cort} That would leave GoW and ND with about 20 each to come and take
Stormia ...
{15:56} {MasterZen} yes pretty much... err... wait :P
{15:57} {asleepathewheel} Good job cort, you tricked him. mwahaha
{15:57} {MasterZen} dammit... all these years doing diplomacy only to slip up at
the most obvious ruse...
{15:58} {Cort} So no GS in the attack, no hit on Lego. Is that the bottom line?
{15:58} {MasterZen} pretty much
{15:59} {MasterZen} I mean seriously, I'm willing to give GS whatever assurances it
wants that we'll not use it to attack stormia. I understand your paranoia just
the same as we are paranoid of going alone
{15:59} {asleepathewheel} we just remember Vox's second trip to Bob...
{16:00} {Cort} We can put it to the team. The attack would have to be soon, though.
How soon did you have in mind?
{16:00} {opd} why not just
{16:00} {opd} embargo them
{16:00} {MasterZen} seriously, if I had to choose where to wield the might of GoW's
army, I'd definitley use it where it matters most. If we go to war with GS it
only gives Lego more time to win
{16:01} {Cort} Yes, we were looking at economic measures to weaken Lego
{16:02} {MasterZen} i'm not against that either
{16:02} * aggie has joined #gow_cofa
{16:02} * ChanServ sets mode: +o aggie
{16:02} {Cort} A tech loop between GoW/ND/GS would lock Lego out - followed later
by a luxury embargo to stop them growing cities much above 12
{16:03} {MasterZen} well, can I ask you a question?
{16:03} {Cort} WGo on
{16:04} {MasterZen} assuming we do that, what's GS's hope of victory other than
space race with the less than certain odds of having every resource?
{16:04} {Cort} We don't have a victury plan, just a survival plan.
{16:05} {MasterZen} well, your unit wall is a survival plan in itself :P
{16:05} {Cort} It's phase 1
{16:05} {aggie} we saw it
{16:05} {Cort} please come and look. It's very nice.
{16:05} {MasterZen} I already did
{16:06} {MasterZen} it's worse than U.S. Customs at JFK Airport after 9/11
{16:06} {aggie} I wouldn't go that far MZ
{16:06} {Cort} You guys have enough strength to hurt Lego without us. that leaves
your security. We can work on that.
{16:07} {MasterZen} not even a token expeditionary force?
{16:08} {MasterZen} I mean, we'd end up splitting the conquered territories after
all...
{16:08} {Cort} We wouldn't be able to hold them from you. Or Lego. they'll still be
there.
{16:09} {MasterZen} seriously, wouldn't providing GS with saltpeter be proof enough
of our intentions?
{16:10} {opd} yeah but you don't really need us?
{16:10} {Cort} Quite possibly, one for the team to consider. A token force is not
unthinkable ...
{16:11} {MasterZen} my point is that the more troops we can manage, the more
certain our victory, and the bigger the spoils
{16:12} {Cort} We're not confident of holding those spoils, but what do you
envisage - trash a few cities in the core and replace them with our own?
{16:13} {aggie} the main point if we choose this course could be a scorched earch
policy to destroy the economic and military poterntial of Lego
{16:13} {MasterZen} and keep their resources
{16:14} {MasterZen} and brag in the public forum
{16:15} {Trip} mainly the last part :P
{16:16} {Cort} THat'd be a GoW thang
{16:16} {MasterZen} you know the whole reason for this is to provide entertainment
for Trip :P
{16:16} {Trip} of course...
{16:16} {Trip}
{16:17} {Cort} Trimming that Green blob would be great. Entertainment for Vox, too.
They might see something this time.
{16:17} {Trip} it's fun predicting how things will turn and watching things unfold

{16:17} * Trip thinks Legoland ought to have had a neighbor :P
{16:17} {MasterZen} err.. they do have a neighbor :P
{16:18} {Cort} Yeah, did Lego edit the map or something at the begining?
{16:18} {Trip} :P
{16:18} {Trip} a neighbor to start the game, that is
{16:18} {MasterZen} wait, just you wait... unitl you see the doughnut hole! :P
{16:18} {Trip} NYE was the one that started the game, IIRC :P
{16:19} {Trip} it'd be kind of hard for Lego to mod the map :P
{16:19} {Cort} 480 tiles for one civ. Lucky them.
{16:19} {Trip} I don't know if anyone saw the thread I posted a while back
{16:20} {Trip} about if there were an 8th civ
{16:20} {MasterZen} I did
{16:20} {MasterZen} they'd be RP's neighbors :P
{16:20} {Trip} it would have been west of RP
{16:21} {Cort} So we're agreed on everything except commitment of GS troops against
Lego...
{16:21} {MasterZen} yeah
{16:21} {MasterZen} well, it's not like GoW and ND participation is 100% assured
either :P
{16:21} {MasterZen} but I like to bring up the ideas first
{16:24} {Cort} So if GS don't join in, it doesn't happen. What happens to all those
units if you don't attack Lego? No, I mustn;t ask that
{16:24} {MasterZen} well, I haven't really said that either...
{16:25} {MasterZen} but I'd say the chances of attacking Lego are greatly
diminished...
{16:25} {Cort} OK, this needs to be taken back to the forum
{16:25} {MasterZen} sure thang
{16:25} {Cort} But on the tech deal ... does that still sound good?
{16:26} {MasterZen} oh definitely
{16:26} {MasterZen} does ND like the idea too?
{16:28} {Zayxus} yeah
{16:29} {Cort} great!
{16:30} {MasterZen} cool, I'll see if I can hog something out of Vox though
{16:30} {MasterZen} (the things I do for a free tech...)
{16:30} {Cort} so we are concluded for now?
{16:30} {MasterZen} yeah, at least on my part
{16:31} {MasterZen} who wants logs?
{16:31} {Cort} yes please
{16:31} {MasterZen} to the address you sent me the e-mail right before the chat?
{16:31} {Cort} Yes - thanks
{16:31} {MasterZen} ok
{16:32} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{16:32} {MasterZen} yey, he left, now we can goof off :P
{16:32} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{16:32} {MasterZen} well, I am hungry, and I have a nice big piece of salmon in the
fridge whispering "eat me... eat me"
{16:33} {MasterZen} and I feel so bad if I didn't comply
{16:33} {Cort} ok , thanks everone, 'till next time. And PM's meantime
{16:33} * aggie has left #gow_cofa
{16:33} {MasterZen} great
{16:33} {MasterZen} nice to have you guys around
{16:33} {Cort} you too - cya
{16:33} {MasterZen} I can honestly say it is now a pleasure to chat with GS
{16:33} {Cort}
{16:33} * Cort has left #GoW_CoFA
{16:34} {Zayxus}
{16:34} {Trip}
{16:34} {asleepathewheel} oh this is over? I enjoyed listening in, later.
{16:34} {MasterZen} cya sleepy
{16:34} * asleepathewheel has quit IRC (Quit: )
{16:34} * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
End of #gow_cofa buffer Thu Feb 12 16:35:46 2004

[Cort Haus]

email to MZ

MZ,

The chat was good the other day, and there has been much discussion since on our forum. We haven't reached a unanimous position on the proposal, and there is some opposition to the notion that GS troops are really needed to damage Lego, but at this stage there is a possibility that a GS majority would approve the sending of troops to contribute to a Grand Alliance to Undermine Lego.

Would you be able to offer an an indication of the timescales you had in mind, so we could consider planning possiblites? In the light of the window of operations, we expect you would probably want to get started asap after Mil Trad. For our part, we could deliver an Expeditionary Force to the West of Lego not before around 15 turns, before which we could assist with city investigation, were an eastern assault already under way.

Some at GS feel that Lego may be able to block an eastern landing, in which case a new threat from the west may help to divert troops, but there is also the possibility of landing in Lego Minor, chez Vox, and blasting through Invoice. The least effect would be to pull units into Invoice, making landings easier elsewhere.

[Cort Haus]

resent above message by PM this time to MZ (mbox full) , UnO, and Aggie.

added :

we've talked about Vox's free tech. We feel it would be too risky to pull them up and get their freebie available - as all we give them and the freebie could go straight to Lego (a disaster).

Also, a free tech amongst a research Trojka is less valuable than too an individual civ with no research partners.

Of course, Vox may wish to consider which horse they want to back in the long run, but any tip-off could ensure that Lego block their coastline and thwart an attack.

[Cort Haus]

to MZ (email), Uno, cc Aggie

MZ / UnO,

We have reached a consensus of opinon at GS that we would wish to make a contribution, including a military component, to the idea discussed last week.

As was said in the previous message, a timescale indication, in addition to confirmation that the idea is still on-the-cards, would be much appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Cort.

[Cort Haus]

from MZ

Hey Cort,

We are currently duscussing whether to begin REAL planning on this or not. I still cannot give you a definitive answer since I haven't heard from ND in a while. Also we are not sure if we will have enough time to launch it before they get Riflemen or RR (partly depending on luck). If it ends up being a negative, we can still plan something for the industrial era. What we all agree though is that we have to do something about Lego or they'll win the game without breaking a sweat.

Oh and apologies for my PM Inbox, it seems you're always the one who sends me a PM when it's full. I have purged it now

Regards
-MZ

[Cort Haus]

to MZ / UnO

To our friends the Glory of War,

If military action is not currently an option, then we have to consider other ways to slow down Lego. Here are some possibilities :

1. Tech Embargo - already under way, AIUI
2. Luxury Embargo - at some point - hopefully ND don't intend to keep that supply going to Lego.
3. Wonder Denial - we should arrange to take these out of Lego's hands by building them ourselves if possible.
4. Vox's tech - can we, ahem, persuade Vox that the world at large feels very strongly that Lego shouldn't get Vox's tech? It could be the clincher if Lego get that.
5. Start planning for Marines, Bombers, Subs and Tanks!

Regards,

Cort

[Cort Haus]

from MZ

For the record, ND voted against military action against Lego

This sucks since GoW is not really comfortable at going it alone or even with GS assistance. ND involvement could have put 30 mobile units into the mix, thus likely tilting the balance in our favor.

As per your suggestions, I like all of them except 4) since I doubt that Vox would accept. Since Vox ain't winning this game, I see no reason why they wouldn't help their main benefactor win the game.

PS. Are you interested in trading for Military Tradition? We get it next turn. Do you guys have Economics?

[Cort Haus]

to MZ

You wanna nice deal on Theory of Gravitee! Eh Senor?

A very nice deal for a speeecial friend - you wanna hear about it, Amigo? I KNOW you wanna hear about it. Propel you veeeery fast into the Industrial Age eh Gonzales! Help us beat the blockheads, you know?

[Cort Haus]

{Cort} OK, here's the deal ...
{Cort} 1. We give you ToG
{Cort} 2. You agree to research medicine within 11 turns
{Cort} 3. If we have no coal, and you have two or more, you supply us with 20 turns of coal
{MasterZen} interesting...
* Joins: UnOrthOdOx
{MasterZen} sounds highly tempting
{Cort} if we have coal, or you don't have a second, then no obligation
{MasterZen} [20:43] {MasterZen} interesting...
{UnOrthOdOx} Fine by me.
{Cort} Can you do Medicine in 11 turns?
{MasterZen} probably yes
{UnOrthOdOx} Sorry, I just got my PC back, been out of it.
{Cort} 200 bpt is 12 turns, so a bit more should do it
{Cort} another thing - out#r tech strategy
{MasterZen} go ahead
{Cort} We're going for the ToE
{Cort} and maybe Hoov - but it'll be tight with Lego
{Cort} Very tight, but we think we can pip them by one turn.
{Cort} More free info ...
{Cort} we're closing - very close - on both science wonders. We don't want you to waste any shields missing them
{Cort} Do you want Uni Suff?
{MasterZen} GoW, by nature, does not suffer WW :P
{Cort} Yes, you suffer Peace-Weariness - we've heard. Can you hold out till Marines, UnO
{UnOrthOdOx} lol
{Cort} Lego have switched 'Sistine' to Smiths
{MasterZen} we noticed
{Cort} Do you still want to let them keep using the 600s prebuild? It's more than any team thought they were offering Lego when the Sistine deals were signed
{MasterZen} we can both write them a very stern letter saying that they cheated us out of it
{UnOrthOdOx} Damn builders
* UnOrthOdOx shakes fist in frustration
{MasterZen} that we did not sign to give them a prebuild for another wonder
{UnOrthOdOx} I swear, if they win, i'm gonna...
{MasterZen} ...nuke 'em!
{Cort} Any idea what ND think of the Sistine thing?
{Cort} No...
{Cort} How about a Public Statement?
{UnOrthOdOx} ND can bite me.
{Cort} ?
* UnOrthOdOx is in a foul mood tonight.
{MasterZen} lol
{MasterZen} no, no idea about sistine
{MasterZen} but you know...
{UnOrthOdOx} f8ck you all, war on everyone!
{MasterZen} this could actually be our excuse to embargo them
{Cort} hmmm...
{Cort} lux embargo?
{MasterZen} everything-embargo
{UnOrthOdOx} Everything.
{MasterZen} hell, GoW's gonna have some galleons off Zenophobia, that should spook 'em a bit
{Cort} cool
{MasterZen} "The Black Peril is coming!"
{Cort} we've seen a Vox Caravel off their coast. We're about to start checking Lego's Western pickets
{MasterZen} btw, just out of curiosity: how long do you think it could've taken GS to build a sizeable invasion force?
{UnOrthOdOx} I sure wish you guys woulda snuffed Vox...
{Cort} Yeah, UnO, so are some of us
{MasterZen} because for us it wouldn't take that long... just a couple of turns for a mass upgrade
{UnOrthOdOx} I was the only advocate off your team, though.
{UnOrthOdOx} GS could build HORSE still, though, right?
{UnOrthOdOx} That should put numbers out quick...
{Cort} It would have taken us a while to get a big force together.
{MasterZen} we would obviously supply the saltpeter at no charge
{Cort} Well, without ND it wouldn't be possible.
{UnOrthOdOx} how much is a horse-calv upgrade in PTW?
{MasterZen} not so much as impossible, rather, I'd hate to leave my ass THAT unprotected
{Cort} Exactly
{Cort} Could ND be coming after you?
{MasterZen} I mean, if GoW and Lego were neighbors, they'd be quite dead by now :P
{MasterZen} Cort, we have to be paranoid of EVERYTHING... it's our nature
{Cort} GS didn't have the galleys, and we couldn't spare many units off our wall.
{Cort} We have to think longer term noe
{Cort} now
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} Lego will be mega, but GoW, ND and GS could still get the job done.
{Cort} We need 1) Science 2) Production 3) Alliance
{MasterZen} and we'll have time to convince those Germans that invading is our best choice
{Cort} GS is low on shields, but strong on science and planning to get stronger
{Cort} Bob is full of shields
{Cort} MZ - ND must be persuaded that Lego has to be hit eventually
{Cort} unless ND's plan is 1) eat GoW 2) eat GS 3) eat Lego
{MasterZen} the problem with ND is that they are in full REX stage and re-development cut-the-jungle phase also
{Cort} rex - yes
{MasterZen} which Is why I'm not that surprised that they refused
{Cort} OK - we all needed to consolidate / regroup after the war. And they have, erm, rather a lot of land to fill. Could keep them a while. They shoudl hire some INdustrial workers
{MasterZen} GoW's advantage is Leo's. We can upgrade our entire army faster than you can say "**** Lego". But ND and GS would find it a bit more difficult. But well, we can wait
{UnOrthOdOx} We can't cut their jungle, learned the hard way.
{Cort} ?
{MasterZen} yep
{UnOrthOdOx} Game won't allow it.
{UnOrthOdOx} Our workers cant cut anything in their territory.
{MasterZen} we sent them some workers back then. Doesn't allow us to chop forest or jungle
{Cort} Wierd.. slave workers in SP do anything
{UnOrthOdOx} Yeah, that changed a few plans during the war.
{Cort} What about paying gold for you to do it directly
{MasterZen} that was the plan
{MasterZen} we sent them workers to no avail, they were GOW workers
{Cort} don't like nasssty ssssticky jungle
{UnOrthOdOx} We determined it had to do with the transfer of shields.
{MasterZen} didn't work with forest either
{MasterZen} apparently the game doesn't allow you to chop in the territory of another team, even if it's your ally and you have a RoP
{UnOrthOdOx} It won't let us give their city shields basically.
{Cort} better build some cities there, then
{UnOrthOdOx} Jungle is the same code as forrest but set to 0 shields.
{UnOrthOdOx} Oh, sure, that'll start a war pretty quick.
{Cort} oh dear
{Cort} Question ...
{UnOrthOdOx} shoot
{Cort} do ND see Lego as their next target or not?
{MasterZen} it better be them and not us :P
{Cort} indeed
{MasterZen} well, look at it this way
{Cort} Mind you, if ND attacked you, Lego would have to help you
{MasterZen} there was a time, and there have been occassions where ND could have butt ****ed us
{MasterZen} there have also been times where GoW could have butt****ed ND
{Cort} er, yes
{MasterZen} (in fact, we could pretty much do it in, say 3 turns :P )
{MasterZen} I think it is clear to both of us, that we're better off together against Lego than to fight amongst ourselves. The same can be said with GS at this stage of the game. Fighting amongs us 3 gets us nowhere
{Cort} What about ND's luxury bonanza to Lego?
{MasterZen} I will talk about that with them on thursday
{Cort} If we want to lux embargo Lego, we need to sort each other out ...
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} for example, GS has another lux it could supply GoW, and ND has, well...
{MasterZen} we will have an extra Gem in the not-so-distant future
{Cort} Woohoo!
{MasterZen} we currently have only one
{Cort} Our single lux trade with Lego is ready to drop at any time
{Cort} If they get Sistine and Caths everywhere, they won't need the lux so much, but when they get to Metros ...
{Cort} Metros are their big monster of the future. Loose build everywhere waiting to go supernova after hospitals. That's when the lux embargo would be most important
* UnOrthOdOx breaks out singing along to "Little Shop of Horrors" on the tele
{Cort} So - back to the grand plan ...
{Cort} So, if GS can prevent Lego getting Hoover Dam, that will help, right?
{MasterZen} i'd definitely prefer any civ rather than Lego from getting it
{Cort} It's not so useful for us. We only have about three full-shield cities! They have about 30
{Cort} So that'll be one plank of our contribution. Another can be science ...
{Cort} especially if the blockheads don't beat us to Cope's and Newton
{MasterZen} let's hope not
{Cort} So with GS science and naval potential, GoW's Leo's and ND's shields, we should lbe able to do something between us.
{MasterZen} definitely
{Cort} I'll get back to you with the wording on that deal, and we can get you ToG on our turn...
{MasterZen} we still need to poll the deal
{Cort} of course - that's why you'll need the wording
{MasterZen} ok, send it our way

[Cort Haus]

to MZ/UnO

MZ/UnO,

First, confirming our offer :

1. GS supplies GoW with ToG immediately.
2. GoW to research Medicine within 11 turns, to be traded for Steam Power with GS as agreed previously
3. If GS have no coal, and GoW have two sources or more, GS will supply GoW with Steam Power upon discovery, and GoW supply GS with 20 turns of coal.

We'll send ToG accepted. Accept it if you want to go ahead with deal.

-----

Also, ND now have Physics. They presumably got this from Lego, but whilst still in negotiations with GS over a price. This is unfortunate, as GS would have certainly been able to come to an agreement with ND after some haggling. We have said we'd like to do a deal with them for Magnets & ToG, but are concerned that they're working with Lego for short term gain.

We thought ND agreed to not trading Tech with Lego. Could GoW seek clarification of ND's commitment to this policy during your upcoming chat with them?

Regards,

Cort

[Cort Haus]

from MZ

Hello Cort

First of all, since the invasion of Lego was called off our team decided we were free to trade Mil Tradition, Lego had offered us ToG a few turns back for it. So we accepted. We will get it in 3 turns.

As per the GS deal, as long as the GoW-ND-GS partnership is in place, I do not doubt we would supply GS with a resource it needs, for example, had the invasion plans been confirmed, we would not have hesitated to supply GS with saltpeter. We should be able to do the same with coal.

We will also finish our FP in the next couple of turns, this will give a huge boost in our science spending, we can probably get Medicine in that timeframe.

One last thing, I was talking to vondrack today, and expressed our discontent about the Sistine prebuild. Has GS sent anything to Lego about that issue? To be honest, we weren't planning on Sistine's but perhaps GS might find it a more useful wonder. I was willing to suggest to GS if it wanted to "trade" wonders, we would be allowed to build one of the science wonders (we are close to Copernicus ourselves) and GS switch to Sistines and get the other science wonder. Ultimatley GoW could do Sistines but I think GS would find more use to it due to their cheaper cathedrals.

If Lego moans and b*tches about it in public, GoW would openly support GS's right to Sistines.

This is just an idea, tell me what you think.

Regards,
-MZ

btw. I was thinking if perhaps we can set one of the days of the week for a weekly GS-GoW chat.

[Cort Haus]

to MZ

Hello to you MZ,

Forgive us please for asking you to reconsider your chosen route for acquiring Theory of Gravity - on the basis of GoW's best interests and GAUL's.

1. By obtaining it from Lego instead of GS you will slow down your entry into the IA by three turns, delaying your acquisition of Steam Power and Industrialisation with all their attendant goodies.

2. By trading Mil Trad to Lego this eliminates a possible distraction for Lego which might otherwise have diverted them from the fastest route to the the IA wonders which they must be denied.

3. By delaying Medicine, the best hope of denying Lego the ToE is dangling by a thread. Of GoW-ND-GS, only GS research output, including the two science Wonders, can get to Scientific Method before Lego. The timing of Medicine is everything in this plan. If GoW perhaps fancies a shot at the ToE itself, and hence has a motivation to obstruct the GS plan, only Lego will benefit from this.

If you are committed to your decision to again trade with Lego, so be it, but the GS offer is still on the table, and ToG will again be on your doorstep when the turn arrives

We too will inform Lego what we think of the Sistine situation in due course. As we have had no diplomatic relations with them for centuries, we have no channels at the moment.

The two science wonders are paramount for us, and we fully intend to get them, in accordance with our entire post-war policy of economically narrowing Lego's margin of dominance.

May Blockhead Mortar turn to Mush! Long live GAUL!

Regards,

CH

[Cort Haus]

Hi MZ, just a quick note :

To avoid any possible confusion, we should clarify that standard NTA conditions would apply to our offer.

(We understand that you may already be committed to another path, in which case this wouldn't apply, but we just wanted to be clear.)

Regards,

Cort.

[Cort Haus]

Hi MZ / UnO,

We're restructuring at GS, and asleepathewheel will be hitherto taking care of GS-GoW diplomacy. I'm sure sleepy will enjoy working with you guys as much as I have

Regards,

Cort Haus