DIPLO: Glory of War contact LOG

[asleepathewheel]

RE: PTWDG
Hello

You are free to come into our chat anytime #GoW_CoFA, if I'm there idling just type /notice (my nick) Hello or something like that and I'll get some very annoying beeps which are sure to catch my attention

There is a little problem though, as of tomorrow I will be participating in a United Nations model at my school and will likely be away for most of the day. Try and catch me after 7pm CST these days.

The other day is sunday, I'll probably be here all day.

btw, I like the topic of the chat...

Cheers
-MZ

quote:

MZ-

We need to set up a chat with you sometime in the near future. I'm not sure when it could be, my work life is in flux at the moment and am not sure when I will be around for the next few days. Are there times of the day when you are in the chatroom, that I could just pop in? I expect to be the only GS member chatting. Sorry for the pain, we are reorganizing a bit again, Cort Haus is taking a slight break, though I expect him to return eventually, unlike our past emigrants.

Things to discuss: The fate of the world. (Ominous, eh?)

-aatw

[asleepathewheel]

[edit by DeepO: edited your text to make the names readable. Hope you don't mind!]

note for context: I showed up in the GoW room and found...Zayxus there, so was trying to juggle chats...I bolded some interesting bits...

[14:50] *asleepathewheel* I think we need to have a chat without ND, as well
[14:50] *MasterZen* sure
[14:51] *MasterZen* if no-one else from GS is coming we can keep it here in private
[14:51] *asleepathewheel* just me, so don't hurt me too much
[14:51] *MasterZen* lol
[14:51] *asleepathewheel* this is...awkward, I stopped by hoping to find you only, so not sure
what to say in the main chat room
[14:52] *MasterZen* this seems to be "the day" and "the hour" where everyone shows up at our
chat
[14:52] *asleepathewheel* funny
[14:52] *MasterZen* it's convenient in the sense that it's like the de facto time when other
teams want to talk to us, of course it's a pain to have 3-4 windows open and active at the
same time... but that's what I get
[14:52] *asleepathewheel* sure
[14:55] *asleepathewheel* uhh, lets see
[14:57] *MasterZen* btw
[14:57] *asleepathewheel* ?
[14:57] *asleepathewheel* We have some concerns about ND
[14:57] *MasterZen* sorry about the whole ToG deal, the problem is we had agreed to it with
Lego a long while back, if we knew GS had it we would have traded with you
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* oh, ok
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* we were probably being a bit to secretive, we...have that problem
[14:58] *MasterZen* we tried to change the deal with Lego, for Economics instead... but they
got Adam Smith's on that same turn so it was pointless
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* oh ok
[14:59] *MasterZen* what are your concerns with ND?
[14:59] *asleepathewheel* what about ND? we thought we were negotiating with them for ToG,
then we found out in game that they got it from Lego?
[15:00] *MasterZen* probably
[15:00] *MasterZen* I honestly don't know how they get their techs besides the ones we trade
among ourselves
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* nd sent us an odd note
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* We made a decission in the beginning of this game to strike the deals
withthe best conditions for us. Right now we consider the deals with Legoland of greater
benefit for us. This has nothing to do with your team but your prices aren't able to beat the
ones that Legoland has set up so we trade with them.
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* As for the plans of a war, we must clarify that the last war with RP
and GS was the last one that saw ND as an Agressor. We have splendid relationship to Legos
and are not the ones to fall in the backs of our former allys even if it means, that we will
not finish this game in a winning position.
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* erm, that was the note
[15:02] *MasterZen* heheh, how "ND-ish"
[15:02] *asleepathewheel* indeed
[15:02] *MasterZen* short, blunt, and to the point
[15:02] *asleepathewheel* raises some questions
[15:02] * MasterZen 's Cavalry is ready...
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* are they going to for a build off with lego or something?
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* will they never agree to attack them?
[15:03] *MasterZen* I honestly don't know
[15:03] *MasterZen* what I can guarantee is that ND is not going to war in the near future
[15:03] *MasterZen* well, against Lego, that is
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* well, the only teams that can attack each other really are the two of
you
[15:03] *MasterZen* yeah... hahaha
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* they can't possibly win a build off against lego, lego is way too
developed
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* you can't win that way, we have no hopes of winning that way
[15:04] *MasterZen* well... there is a way
[15:04] *MasterZen* NUKES
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* well, true
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* hehe
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* we are now weak to lego, btw
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* so they have been using their ga to build units, at least in part
[15:05] *MasterZen* yes, believe it or not, so are we
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* hmm. uhoh
[15:05] *MasterZen* still, Lego obviously has a lot of units, as for offensive power I don't
know
[15:06] *MasterZen* i.e. how many mobile units they have
[15:06] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:06] *MasterZen* GoW doesn't have that many units, but most of them are Cavs/Riders
[15:06] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:07] *asleepathewheel* hw is your relationship with nd, are you still quite secure in the
south?
[15:08] *MasterZen* yes, I think that our relationship is good
[15:08] *asleepathewheel* thats good
[15:08] *asleepathewheel* frankly about the only thing that can happen int he next 30 or
whatever turns til marines can happen to you or ND
[15:09] *MasterZen* of course, GoW - inherently paranoid - always plans for the worst
[15:09] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:09] *asleepathewheel* at marines...either GS gets roasted nearly immediately or Lego is
attacked
[15:10] *asleepathewheel* we have to gamble that Stormia isn't worth much, neither bob civ nor
lego will win domination by conquering us
[15:10] *asleepathewheel* we meaning GS
[15:11] *MasterZen* but we'd still have fun... errr... nevermind
[15:11] *asleepathewheel* well, of course.
[15:11] *asleepathewheel* :0
[15:12] *MasterZen* heheh
[15:12] *MasterZen* GoW joke
[15:12] *MasterZen* (bad GoW joke..)
[15:12] *asleepathewheel* we have to hope that you need us to take out lego, speaking frankly.
[15:12] *MasterZen* nah, to be honest we'd much rather be trading with you. Lego is a monster
[15:12] *MasterZen* yes, exactly
[15:13] *asleepathewheel* but these recent Nd communications confuse the issue for us, if they
are actively trading and purchasing from lego
[15:13] *asleepathewheel* our hope is to push hard ahead to tanks and marines, hence the two
sci wonders
[15:14] *MasterZen* well, why don't you guys lower the bar on your tech trades with ND? No
offense but GS had a reputation of driving a hard bargain before...
[15:14] *asleepathewheel* yeah I know
[15:14] *asleepathewheel* sigh
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* I think we were expecting a negotiation, but nd didn't counter offer,
FWIR
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* but I think we have changed our tune
[15:15] *MasterZen* yeah, ND needs to be courted
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* regarding such negotiations
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:15] *MasterZen* not because they're special or anything, simply it's the language barrier
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* true
[15:16] *MasterZen* obviously no such troubles with us, we've been quite pleased with our
recent trades
[15:17] *asleepathewheel* right, but our trades were much more equitable, nd would have made
off like bandits in comparison
[15:17] *asleepathewheel* but if that's what's necessary to shut out lego, then we will figure
something out
[15:17] *MasterZen* cool
[15:18] *MasterZen* how long till you guys get Steam power?
[15:18] *asleepathewheel*
[15:18] *asleepathewheel* next turn
[15:18] *asleepathewheel* :0
[15:18] *MasterZen* wow, that was quick...
[15:19] *asleepathewheel* yes, we are now good at one thing only, that is research
[15:19] *MasterZen* I assume you are going for that holy grail of industrial wonders: Hoover
[15:20] *asleepathewheel* yes, its really the only way we can compete industrially with lego
[15:20] *asleepathewheel* are you shooting for it as well with your sistine prebuild?
[15:20] *MasterZen* it's up in the air...
[15:20] *MasterZen* sistines, believe it or not, is actually useful to us
[15:21] *MasterZen* god bless GhengisFarb's 5-tile city spacing.... will bring us a lot of cash
after Hospitals
[15:21] *asleepathewheel* I'm sure it is. If you built it, we wouldn't object
[15:21] *asleepathewheel* haha
[15:22] *MasterZen* you know, if I had played GoW's early turns, I'd have had like 10 cities
where GF only placed 5 :P
[15:22] *asleepathewheel* yeah, a bit open. we have squeezed in as many cities as possible to
our land, but what else to do?
[15:23] *MasterZen* I'm not a fan of spaced out builds
[15:23] *asleepathewheel* no, neither am I. Though perhaps GF's builds helped seal Lux's fate,
due to land problems
[15:23] *MasterZen* I like my cities like I like my women: TIGHT! hahaha
[15:23] *asleepathewheel* hehe
[15:24] *asleepathewheel* how do you see the marine/tank period playing out? will nd agree to
a three way attack on lego?
[15:24] *MasterZen* I dunno, hopefully they'll get tired of their hippie ways
[15:24] *MasterZen* to be honest I kinda liked the old we-don't-give-a-****-let's-kill-someone
ND of days of yore...
[15:24] *asleepathewheel* hopefully
[15:25] *asleepathewheel* so you expect medicine in 10 turns?
[15:25] *MasterZen* yes
[15:25] *MasterZen* probably less
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* poly is all ****ed up, yet again, apparently
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* ok
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* here's the deal
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* we need medicine as fast as you can make it
[15:27] *asleepathewheel* is there some deal that we could come up with to get it faster?
[15:27] *asleepathewheel* maybe working with nd to funnel you cash to speed it up, and us
trading them steam?
[15:28] *MasterZen* weren't you going to trade them steam anyway?
[15:28] *asleepathewheel* we're going to sell them steam, apparently, for who knows how much
[15:28] *asleepathewheel* zayxus told me to make them an offer via email
[15:29] *asleepathewheel* so not sure exactly what is going on there.
[15:30] *MasterZen* ND is hoarding gold
[15:30] *MasterZen* that's why they want cash deals on pretty much everything
[15:30] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* this is tricky, isn't it?
[15:31] *MasterZen* very
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* sigh
[15:31] *MasterZen* but that's the fun of it
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* right..right
[15:32] *asleepathewheel* I think deepo posted our turn already. hmm
[15:34] *asleepathewheel* earlier you mentioned hoover. I forgot to mention that we are also
wanting it to deny it to lego. imagine lego with hoover, very scary
[15:34] *MasterZen* lego without hoover is still quite scary
[15:34] *asleepathewheel* true.
[15:35] *asleepathewheel* which is why we are stretching to get to electronics asap.
[15:36] *asleepathewheel* it would be pretty funny, from an objective pov, if GS built all
these wonders and hoover and pushed the tech race, only to get assaulted by marines and
destroyed. I think we figured out that it would be easily doable to destroy GS in one turn
using marines properly.
[15:37] *MasterZen* how about this: you get ND to give us gold to get medicine ASAP and you
trade us one of the two free techs you get with ToE, and we basically do not impede GS from
getting ToE/Hoovers
[15:37] *MasterZen* this is just an idea of course... our team would have to discuss it
[15:37] *asleepathewheel* of course. we have been toying with similar ideas
[15:38] *asleepathewheel* we've been trying to come up with a 3 way frame work to get marines
asap, sharing the work.
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* do you know how I can export this easily
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* this chat I mean
[15:40] *MasterZen* sure
[15:40] *MasterZen* you are using mIRC?
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:40] *MasterZen* right click the window button, goto Buffer then save as...
[15:42] *asleepathewheel* hmm
[15:43] *asleepathewheel* not working for some reason
[15:43] *MasterZen* are you sure?
[15:43] *MasterZen* I can e-mail it to you if you want
[15:43] *asleepathewheel* that would be great
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* my wife is going to be home very soon, at which point....
[15:44] *MasterZen* hehe
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* my email is [edited]
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* I enjoyed this, was my first one on one chat with another team, hope
I diddn't let out too many secrets
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* though in the past we were way too tight lipped
[15:45] *asleepathewheel* thats changed a lot since nathan left and CH took over, more friendly
atmosphere
[15:45] *MasterZen* yes, pretty much, but this is the kinder, gentler GS
[15:45] *asleepathewheel* we will try to work something out with Nd to get you cash
[15:46] *MasterZen* ok
[15:46] *asleepathewheel* lego getting ToE would be a disaster as well, in our thoughts
[15:47] *MasterZen* yep
[15:48] *asleepathewheel* we're just hoping vox rolls nationalism and lego has to research both
steam and medicine naturally
[15:48] *MasterZen* yeah
[15:49] *asleepathewheel* anything else we need to discuss that you can think of?
[15:49] *MasterZen* not really, has Roleplay been a good neighbor?
[15:50] *asleepathewheel* pretty quiet, but yeah. WE do have elipolis heavily guarded, just in
case
[15:50] *MasterZen* hee hee
[15:51] *MasterZen* btw, as a gesture of peace I'll withdraw our two galleys. They be best used
in the west...
[15:52] *asleepathewheel* great. I dont' know if CH told you this, but we have a few probe, i
mean, scout galleys and galleons out east and have spotted the lego/vox (one galley I think)
line about halfway between us.
[15:52] *MasterZen* interesting
[15:52] *MasterZen* we also spotted the lego line to our west
[15:52] *asleepathewheel* It was actually probably best that we didn't try landing a efw turns
ago, I think we either wouldn't have found landing sites, or we would have been blown away,
right away
[15:53] *asleepathewheel* well, I better be going, I enjoyed the chat, please email me the log
when you can
[15:54] *MasterZen* sure, take care
End of asleepathewheel buffer Thu Mar 11 16:02:02 2004

[Arrian]

DRAFT PM, to be sent to MZ, Aggie, and frankly anyone else I can think over at GoW:

MZ, Aggie, etc:

I'd like to touch base with you guys on your research of medicine. The last I heard, via a chatlog from MZ & Asleepatthewheel, medicine was supposed to take you ~10 turns, maybe less. I think that was a couple of turns ago.

Can you give me an ETA? As you guys know, we're trying for ToE -> Hoover. Shocker! Of course we are. We are very interested in getting medicine around about the same time we finish electricity. So clearly your expected discovery date of medicine is important to us.

We have attempted negotiation with ND on the subject of providing money to GoW to assist your research. ND's asking price, though, was, to be kind, totally insane.

We're not against sweetening the pot, mind you. Not at all. But first we really need to know two things:

1) your current expected discovery date for medicine; and
2) the fastest you could possibly get it, disregarding deficit spending for the moment.

Further, not only do we want to try and complete our Steam Power for Medicine deal as soon as possible, but obviously we also would like to keep medicine for Lego for a while yet. Since you are researching medicine, it's clealry yours to trade, but perhaps we could convince you to hold off on trading it to lego for a certain number of turns?

We are quite aware that we are basically asking for your help to get ToE. I, and my fellow Stormians, are willing to pay a premium for that. Exactly what is a matter for negotiation, of course, but I've got a couple of ideas.

Please discuss and let me know what you think.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

SENT TO AGGIE, MZ, and UnO:

Aggie, MZ, and UnO,

I'm sending this to all of you, just to make sure it comes to your team's attention quickly.

First off, FYI: Lego has hit the industrial age.

I'd like to touch base with you guys on your research of medicine. The last I heard, via a chatlog from MZ & Asleepatthewheel, medicine was supposed to take you ~10 turns, maybe less. I think that was a couple of turns ago.

Can you give me an ETA? As you guys know, we're trying for ToE -> Hoover. Shocker! Of course we are. We are very interested in getting medicine around about the same time we finish electricity - in order that we might beat Lego to Scientific Method. So clearly your expected discovery date of medicine is very important to us.

We have attempted negotiation with Lego's poodle ND on the subject of providing money to GoW to assist your research. ND's asking price, though, was (to be kind) totally insane. They asked for the moon, some stars, and my firstborn child. I drafted a counteroffer, but decided to talk to you guys first.

We're not against sweetening the pot to get what we want, mind you. Not at all. The days of trying to squeeze "fair value" from every trade we make are gone. But first we really need to know two things:

1) your current expected discovery date for medicine; and
2) the fastest you could possibly get it, disregarding deficit spending for the moment.

Further, not only do we want to try and complete our Steam Power for Medicine deal as soon as possible, but obviously we also would like to keep medicine (and steam power) from Lego for a while yet*. Since you are researching medicine, it's clealry yours to trade, but perhaps we could convince you to hold off on trading it to ND or Lego for a certain number of turns (like, say, 10)? I only include ND because I believe they will immediately turn around and sell it to Lego. If they promised a no-trade with Lego, that's different.

We are quite aware that we are basically asking for your help to get ToE. My fellow Stormians and I are willing to pay a premium for that. Exactly what is a matter for negotiation, of course, but I've got a couple of ideas.

Please discuss and let me know what you think.

-Arrian

* - clearly, Vox could get medicine or steam power as their free tech, and provide that to Lego (of course). If that happens, so be it. Nothin' we can do about it.

[Arrian]

A RESPONSE:

Hello Arrian,

first of all, sorry for resonding so late, RL has been tremendously hectic, anyway, here goes.

We are willing not only to allow, but to help GS get both ToE and Hoovers before Lego does. We are confident that once you get ToE you can snatch Hoovers before they do so it's all a matter of getting ToE quickly. To that end, ND has told us that they are willing to send us A LOT of cash to speed up getting Medicine, and according to our estimates, can get it in another 2 turns with ND assistance. After that we can do one of two things:

1) ND and GoW can financially assist GS in getting Electricity and Scientific Method.

2) GoW can pursue other techs and hand them to GS for free (Sanitation would be the obvious choice since it's a tech we highly covet, another is Replaceable Parts).

In exchange, we think that getting the free techs from ToE's would be satisfactory. Obviously we would cede both ToE and Hoovers to the Gathering Storm. We understand, though, that GS might think that handing over the 2 techs might be a bit risky so we wouldn't mind a "waiting period" for example, perhaps in the meantime if ND is in the industrial we can do Replaceable Parts and gift it to GS.

Anyway, this is just a brainstorm, i'd like to hear what you guys have planned and perhaps we can hammer out a deal in thursday's chat.

Regards
-MZ

[Arrian]

My answer:

MZ,

Interesting. My plan was simpler - just research medicine in time for us to start on S.M. right away after we finish electricity, and we think we've got it. Medicine would be traded for Steam Power, as previously agreed. We were willing to have GS throw in some money to help you research medicine with all possible haste, because at the time it seemed like ND wasn't really interested in playing ball.

By the way, the one truely crucial piece of info I was hoping for was your ETA on medicine. If it lines up with GS's discovery of Electricity, we're in real good shape. That's the crucial bit. Can you let me know?

We've got this all timed out. We believe that if we can begin S.M. research immediately upon discovering Electricity (requires we get medicine from you that turn), we will get ToE, and therefore Hoover. We can research SM at 4-turn pace, IIRC, and that's the key. We have made our plans under the assumption that Lego is capable of researching ALL the techs needed for ToE at 4-turn pace, given their GA and the fact that we're in front, which means they get discounts for researching behind us.

After we deal with that, we would definitely be interested in industrialization and replaceable parts. Sanitation is a slightly lower value to us because of the tight city spacing, but we would of course still need it.

Medicine for Steam Power has already been agreed to, it's just a matter of timing. IIRC, there was also discussion of an Electricity for Industrialization trade. That would still leave you short on Scientific Method, Atomic Theory and Electronics. How about something like this (please understand that I too am just brainstorming, and do NOT have the authority to agree to this yet):

Scientific Method for Sanitation
Atomic Theory for Replaceable Parts
Electronics for Refining or Steel or something like that.

We would want no-trade clauses on the deals (standard 20 turns?) to prevent Lego catching up. Speaking of which, I would also like to delay trades as long as possible (without hampering our own research) so as not to give them research discounts.

There is a concensus in GS that we do not want to try and squeeze every penny out of each deal, but there is also a strong concensus that we don't just give away techs, like ND asked us to do. A trade of a large tech for a smaller one is fine (Steam for Med, Elect for Ind). I don't know what you said to them to get them onboard, but bravo. Though I must admit I'm worried they will balk at the no-trade clauses, because they want to sell or give all this stuff to Lego.

Anyway, let me take your PM to the team and we can formulate a real answer, rather than my off-the-cuff response.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Doh, a followup:

MZ,

I'm silly, huh? I totally read right over your 2-turn estimate for medicine. Sorry!

-Arrian

[Arrian]

response from MZ:

no sweat, let me review your PM - i've got so much damn econometric crap in my head (have to finish thesis this week) I can't even think straight

Btw, I understand ND seems a bit "wierd", sometimes we get that impression too but they have never balked on a no-trade clause since it's pretty much standard procedure. What I suspect is that Lego is offering them some very juicy deals on the techs which is why they are preferring to trade with them than with GS. That is my hunch at least, because as of late they have fullfilled their obligations with us to the word.

Well, hopefully one of your guys can show up tomorrow for the chat.

-MZ

[Cort Haus]

from Aggie

From Aggie, with his thoughts, as a private GoW citizen.

We gained the kmowledge of medicine so hopefully soon our soldiers will have a higher death rate due to battle than disease. We should send it this turn. I've been away from the game due to an active RL, but would like to somewhat increase my participation during the coming months.

First off, after looking at the map there are several concerns of mine.
1) Lego will win if we don't get them knocked down a notch
2) ND can become more powerful than either of us with a good infrastructure plan.

For point 1 I say we have 2 opportunities
a) Right after marines we rush them and devestate at least their costal cities with a combine armour/amphibious/air attack.
b) we wait till we have nukes and let them have it.

b is easiest but I am unsure if we can wait that long. Ie that comes so late they could be near the spacesip before we could all build enoug nukes to hit them.

a requires we start planning and building now.

For point 2, i have a question "Is ND already in bed with Lego?". If the answer is yes we must consider taking them out first.

As I've said before this is just a letter of a private citizen, but one who hopes his views are shared by his government.

Aggie

[Arrian]

Message from MZ, and my response:

oh damn

I am sorry I could not make it to the chat (it was supposed to be on thursday 3pm EST). Basically that's more or less the unofficial chat time each week, ND usually goes online at that time and so does Vondrack from Lego occasionally, Cort Haus and asatw from GS also join us at that time.

Unfortunately this week my ISP decided to let me down and I had no internet during that day until about 6-7 hours later.

Anyway, if you want to chat before next thursday, I'm usually in the gow room #gow_cofa whenever I'm online, or you can catch me in the ISDG chat room.

Has GS finished Electricity? We were thinking if GS had accepted the deal ND had offered you guys which they told us about during the last time we chatted. If not, GoW will likely do Sanitation full speed after Medicine then switch to Replaceable Parts but we will need Electricity to do it.

...

Ack.

Not yet on Electricity, but we're close.

I've been busy IRL, and can't really commit to a chat at any point (this week in particular is kinda crazy). I will post your PM in our forum and hope one or more of my teamates can work this out with you.

I think there is political will on both sides to work out a deal. I think you agree that "better GS than Lego" for ToE/Hoover, and I think we agree that GoW & ND's assistance in ensuring that happens is worth something. The Devil, of course, is in the details.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Chatting with MZ now in #gow_cofa

[Cort Haus]

{Cort} hello
{MasterZen} heey
{Cort} gotcha!
{MasterZen} finally
{Cort} congrats on Medicine ...
{MasterZen} btw, sorry I couldn't make it last thursday, stupid ISP crashed
{Cort} I was away myself last week
{MasterZen} yes, don't forget to tell me to send it to you guys the turn before you get Electricity
{Cort} We get Electricity next turn
{MasterZen} ok then we'll send it to you this one
{Cort} THat is, the turn after the one we just got
{MasterZen} ah perfect
{Cort} So we send you Steam now ...
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} Wanna know where the coal is?
{MasterZen} sure
{Cort} PLague City
{MasterZen} who'd have guessed....
{Cort} ND have only got one, too
{Cort} it's in the jungle at Marlowa-66
{Cort} Lego probably have about six - I think three are visible
{Cort} Even Vox got one
{Cort} We got one - rather nicely placed, as it happens
{MasterZen} damn Lego
{Cort} Maybe they'll have no uranium
{Cort} which reminds me ...
{MasterZen} hopefully
{Cort} Marines, and the planning of, is becomeing a topic for our forum
{MasterZen} that's good
{Cort} THere's a feeling going around that GoW and GS might want to start thinking together about this
{MasterZen} obviously GoW is in favor
{Cort} cool
{MasterZen} and obviously GoW will likely be planning for it
{Cort} excellent
{Cort} question is - ND
{Cort} whose side are they gonna be on
{MasterZen} they better be on ours
{Cort} you know better than us - will they be too busy REXing still?

{MasterZen} well, they're not really rexing as quick as they could, thinks me...
* Joins: Krill
{Cort} Krill!
{Krill} Hello
{MasterZen} new GS member?
{Krill} Yes
{MasterZen} welcome
{Krill} And CoD
{Cort}
* MasterZen is no longer active in the PTWDG II
{Krill} Thank you, we don't have to try to beat you then
{Cort} so, we were talking about hitting Lego
{Cort} with marines
{Krill} Best way, and we have another advantage. We know when Lego research Elec
{Cort} I don't know how we go about specifics ...
{Krill} Hence when they can research replacable parts, and build infantry
{MasterZen} we'll need quite a number of ships...
{Cort} ... but now we agree on a mutual cause we can take the next step
{Cort} yes, we've been thinkning about that - we have some plans ...
{Krill} where will we invade, though?
{Cort} ... but I've been away lately so can't speak in detail atm
{Cort} we were thinking of knocking out the pickets and attacking their west
{MasterZen} I wonder, will we want to concentrate our armies on one front or attack on each side?
{Cort} a matter for debate
{MasterZen} sometimes I'd just rather nuke 'em
{Cort} too late, we fear
{MasterZen} depends if we can out-research them to the modern age
{Cort} depends on whether ND was in on it or dancing with Lego

(at which point everyone had to go to dinner / sleep)

[Cort Haus]

chat with MZ

{Cort} Nice work on Medicine We hope you're enjoying your RR
{MasterZen} hey
{MasterZen} sorry, was (am) playing the ISDG turn
{MasterZen} what's up?
{Cort} OK, won't keep you
{MasterZen} nah, don't worry, I'm almost finished
{Cort} I just wanted to ask about future research
{Cort} Do you want to do Indust or shall we?
{MasterZen} ah yes
{MasterZen} we actually started on Sanitation, and after that we're doing Rep. Parts
{Cort} OK, shall we do Indust then after Sci Meth?
{MasterZen} what are the other options?
{Cort} er, Radio?
{MasterZen} lol
{MasterZen} yes well, I guess that's the only choice
{Cort} I think indust would be most likely
{Cort} also, we were wondering whether the road to Legopolis might go through Neu Theben, if you understand ...
{Cort} ND just got Steam from Lego
{Cort} which suggests those two are happy bunnies together
{MasterZen} I am starting to get concered about ND and Lego...
{MasterZen} though I honestly don't understand WHY ND is so interested in befriending Lego
{Cort} it makes no sense
{Cort} unless they want to join together to get far ahead of GoW & GS
{Cort} It's looking like we might have to hit both of them, and ND is easier!
{MasterZen} don't think that thought hasn't crossed my mind
{MasterZen} but still, why would they want to get far ahead of GoW and GS? Lego still has a HUGE lead over ND
{Cort} yes, ND have a lot of work to catch up - can they be persuaded to break with LEgo?
{Cort} if not, we just have to hit them both or let Lego win
{MasterZen} well, I'll try and persuade them this thursday, if not, we'll have to seriously consider hitting ND
{Cort} sounds good, feeling is growing that ND need a lesson on geo-political realities
{Cort} The worst that can happen is we lose, but we'll lose anyway, and we can't let Lego win without getting their hair mussed
{MasterZen} well, we'll have to see. To be honest though, I don't think our team might agree to it unless there was unmistakable evidence that ND and Lego have something up their sleeve and not just tech trading.
{Cort} What kind of evidence might that be? WMD? We could put a dossier together!
{MasterZen} send in Hans Blix
{Cort} lol
{Cort} Well, if ND and Lego are close, and GS-GoW hit Lego, we might expect ND to join in, which would tricky for GoW's douthern flank
{Cort} southern
{Cort} The best option is to talk ND into joining GAUL, instead of Lego
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} but only GoW can do that - they don't trust us, and have no particular reason to trust us
{MasterZen} i'll have to use my psycho ploys against them...

[Cort Haus]

message to Aggie

Aggie mentioned ND as a possible target in a recent PM. I took up the subject ....

Hi Aggie,

Hopefully MZ posted the chat we had the other day. I've just posted the question on our forum "Does the road to Legopolis go through Neu Theben". Ideally, ND would join GAUL. If they don't, and GoW-GS proceed with the necessary step of moving against Lego, then an ND allied to Lego seriously compromises the security of such an operation.

With ND working as Lego's lux-supplier, tech partner and military ally they kind of line themselves up as a subset of the broader objective, so some of the current thinking at GS goes. They're certainly an easier target than Lego. Lego might join in and defeat us anyway, but better Dead than Lime Green eh?

Regards,

Cort.

[Cort Haus]

to MZ

Hello MZ,

How does this sound for a GoW-GS tech plan ...

1. We gift Electricity to you the turn before you discover Sanitation.

2. You start Rep Parts then trade that and Sanitation to us for Industrialisation and Corporation.

3. We then split Refining and Steel between us.

Militarily, we discussed the Neu Theben path but the feeling is that Lego remains the primary target.

Regards,

Cort