DIPLO: GoW comments

[Shiber]

Can I offer them 100g + 7gpt for being the first civ to have Feudalism?

[DeepO]

If GoW would go squarely for Feud (I don't think they have done it so far, but let's assume for a moment), how long would it take them to research the tech, if we do not research and trade it onwards first? is 10 turns from now a reasonable guess? We were at 4 turns from now (IIRC) at 60+ beakers per turn on average, they can have at most have what, 40 beakers?

I do see the possibility of GoW trading Feud onwards, if they are lying to us now, there is no reason to not lie to us in the near future. In which case, there also is no reason to keep gpt deals with us, that's another 100 gold saved. And they can sell the tech happily to RP too.

So, could we ask for some confirmation, in the form of a screenshot of Vox's invasion forces near Port isolation? They claim there are a couple of units there, and more galleys heading North. That's a lot of galleys for Vox (at least 4), I would rather think Vox has either 1 galley (the one we saw), or in case it is attacking GoW 3. So, if they can show a screenshot, we will show a screenshot of Vox's incoming immortals to them.

I know they can quite easily photopaint a picture together, and of course they should black out their force information, but at least it's a start, we can see their reaction to this question.

If we are asked why, we can say that RP's machinations are getting us paranoid, and we can't be 100% sure that they don't have a invasion force closeby to attack us, instead of Vox.

DeepO

[DeepO]

One sec, Shiber. Let's first make sure they are honest with us. If that is the case, I still don't think we can do that, as we have other teams to take care of.

DeepO

[Aeson]

Feudalism as late as possible to the rest of the world is goign to be best. Getting it out 3 turns sooner for 40g isn't a good deal.

[DeepO]

So, we keep to a 6 turn ETA, then? We can negotiate from there onwards.

DeepO

[Aeson]

It gives us more time to get the deals in place, and it makes it less likely anyone will go for 'wait a few turns and get it from us for cheaper when the NDA expires'.

[Shiber]

I'm sorry if I was wrong to speak positively for that deal. I got the impression that we were going to take it if the payment is largely in cash.

Hey, here's a nifty idea: let's tell them that we've acquired maps that allow us to see a path all the way to [insert name of GoW city that has the harbor], and that we will be able to trade soon. We ask that GoW throws a 20-turn supply of wines into this deal as well, starting from a few turns from now (we will let them know, when we complete a harbor on our side).
How long before we can have a working harbor? What if we switch Typhoon into building a harbor and finish the rest with cash-rushing - how much that would cost? Wines would compensate for that rush if we can reduce our lux slider by 10% as a result; with furs, incense being connected and wines we could keep at just 10% lux, right?

Edit: read DeepO's post. Yes, that seems fair, so add a screenshot to this deal as well. 100 gold, 5 gpt, wines for 20 turns and a screenshot.

[DeepO]

Well, the thing I saw first was that we would get 20 gpt for giving it early, which was a lot better deal. Now... it doesn't appeal much, but we have to make sure GoW is not offended, they have been dificult enough.

As to the wines: a harbor is absolutely no priority right now, I don't think it will be easy to fit that into our plans. Further, I wouldn't tell that we have a map, let them come forward with this information first (Vox has seen the tile where Monsoon is, so if they traded their WM to GoW, GoW sees the same trade route as we see).
And lastly: wines is worth zip right now. It doesn't get us to reduce the luxury slider I think, so it's not worth the trouble. If they had two luxs to share, we would be talking, though

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, BTW, there was nothing wrong with speaking positive for it, as long as you say it was your personal view, and the team needs to discuss it (which you did). I too find it extremely difficult to be objective as an ambassador, but that's the way it is supposed to be, an ambassador is a middle man between two teams. We just need to be careful we never rush things, and never give the impression that something we might agree on is also the teams view on this.

DeepO

[Shiber]

They have spices within their cultural boundaries. It's not connected yet, but if we can secure a deal for 100 gold and 5 gpt now and spices + wines later, should we take it?

[Shiber]

/join #GoW bored
(bored is the channel password)

[Aeson]

We could switch Sufa to a Harbor.

[DeepO]

Shiber, still not... it would be better, but let's just offer them Feud in less then 6 turns, and see what they think of this.

The problem with the lux deals is that we need to build that harbor, and they are not going to give us the tech to rush it. So, we will have to wait until the situation with Vox is getting resolved.

I'll try to join the chat, as support. Last time it took me half an hour to connect to 'poly, though.

DeepO

[DeepO]

But do we want to? That's one less galley to use, which could be very welcome in case we want to disturb Vox on their land soon.

DeepO

[Shiber]

I can't say this is going well.

[00:39] * Now talking in #GoW
[00:39] Shiber: How could you guys possibly be bored?
[00:39] Shiber: We're just getting to the exciting part
[00:39] Shiber: Hello fellas
[00:39] GhengisFarb: What' s up with the Feudalism trade?
[00:40] Panzer32: GF knows more about the game than me
[00:41] Shiber: We were wondering about the Voxian invasion force
[00:41] Shiber: Just how big is it?
[00:41] Shiber: Suggestion: set the channel to +p
[00:41] GhengisFarb: They all got back on the Vox boats, to our knowledge there are no more Vox units on Bob, I think it was just a diversion to cover their real objective which was GS
[00:42] Shiber: Previously Panzer32 told me that there are still Vox forces on Bob.
[00:42] Shiber: What's going on?
[00:42] GhengisFarb: Not now.
[00:42] Panzer32: I was looking at the 750bc save
[00:43] Panzer32: GF hadn't forwarded the 730bc
[00:43] Shiber: You said earlier that you were getting the saves forwarded from GF.
[00:43] Shiber: I asked you to look at the latest save and tell me.
[00:44] Panzer32: I am, I got the 730bc after our chat
[00:44] GhengisFarb: He does, we just got the 730 save a few hours ago so it probably depends on when you asked him.
[00:44] Shiber: How long ago did he receive the save?
[00:44] GhengisFarb: Course you should be aware of that as your held it hostage.
[00:44] Panzer32: I got it almost exactly 2 hours ago
[00:44] Panzer32: 3:43 compared to 5:39 now.
[00:45] Shiber: Quite convenient.
[00:46] Shiber: Are you cool with the 10 turns NDA?
[00:46] GhengisFarb: This is utterly ridiculous. GS wants to fight a war against GOW because one GoW member didn't have the latest save loaded on his computer thats stupid
[00:46] Panzer32: yup
[00:46] Shiber: Ok, forget about that
[00:46] Panzer32: (yes to 10 turn NDA)
[00:46] GhengisFarb: We were until you called Panzer 32 a liar.
[00:47] Shiber: GhengisFarb, GS is as paranoid as a nation in war should be. No more, no les.
[00:47] Shiber: *less.
[00:47] GhengisFarb: In fact the entire reason we are waiting to send the save was to get confirmation on that deal so we could send you the money this turn.
[00:47] Shiber: Btw, you realize that it's 10 turns starting from when we give you Feudalism, not 10 turns from now.
[00:47] Shiber: You still have 18 hours to go.
[00:47] Panzer32: sure... just the same as 12 turns from now
[00:48] GhengisFarb: You aren't getting any money from us this turn anymore.
[00:48] Panzer32: never ming
[00:48] Shiber: Very well. Research it yourselves.
[00:48] Shiber: Or get it the turn that ND gets it.
[00:48] Shiber: Feel free to kick me out of the channel any time now
[00:49] GhengisFarb: YOu let your team know that THE ONLY reason this deal did not go through is because you came in here and immediately started calling Panzer a liar.
[00:49] Shiber: Very well.
[00:49] Shiber: So far, most of us on the private forum prefer to distribute Feudalism to all the teams at once
[00:49] Shiber: There is no real incentive in GoW's offer
[00:50] Panzer32: so what turn is that?
[00:50] GhengisFarb: 100 gold now for upgrades? You are the most dishonest and two faced negotiator I have ever dealt with.
[00:51] Shiber: I don't see when I was dishonest.
[00:51] Shiber: Yesterday, I was speaking for myself.
[00:51] Panzer32: calm down GF
[00:51] Shiber: I like the deal, but almost all the rest of my teammates don't, apparently.
[00:51] GhengisFarb: YOU offered this deal. Now YOU say its a useless deal when you ORIGINALY said it was the best deal for your team. Were lying the first time, or are you lying now?
[00:52] Shiber: I already explained, I thought this was a good deal. Obviously though, I can't pass it if my teammates object.
[00:52] * Aeson has joined #gow
[00:52] Aeson: Hello
[00:52] Shiber: GS isn't a dictatorship; in any case, if it was, I'm not the one sitting in the throne
[00:52] Shiber: Hi Aeson
[00:53] Aeson: We have a throne?
[00:53] Shiber: Yes, I just built one in my garage.
[00:53] Shiber: It's nothing fancy, but it's a start.
[00:53] GhengisFarb: YOu just walked in hear and called Panxer a dirty liar and said GS doesn't want this deal because it is taking advantage of your team and and not in any way beneficial to your team.
[00:54] -: *Aeson* how many luxuries do we need (other than incense, which should be connected soon, right?) before we can reduce the lux slider to 10%?
[00:54] *Aeson* Like...5 I think... marketplaces does it with 3-4?
[00:54] Shiber: It would be helpful if you could add quotes to your accusations, as I don't recall saying that.
[00:54] *Aeson* we don't have a harbor soon enough to really matter though
[00:54] Shiber: First of all, I explained that we are just being paranoid.
[00:55] Shiber: Second of all, I was invited here by Panzer 32.
[00:55] Shiber: Third, I did not say that you are taking advantage of us, just that it does not seem favorable to my teammates.
[00:55] -: *Aeson* Oh. Bummer.
[00:55] GhengisFarb: He didn't know you coming in here to start calling us names and proclaiming us as dishonest liars.
[00:56] Shiber: I called you names
[00:56] Shiber: *names?
[00:56] Shiber: And I don't remember being invited to be shouted at. GhengisFarb, where is this leading?
[00:56] GhengisFarb: Apparently, it is GS's philosophy that anyone not on your team is by default automatically liars.
[00:56] Shiber: GhengisFarb, now you're just showing grudge.
[00:57] Shiber: We have received information from several sources that we'd like to verify. You would probably have done the same.
[00:57] Shiber: *If you were in our position
[00:57] *Aeson* Can you post a transcript of what GF is misinterpreting?
[00:57] Shiber: Again, we are at war - so naturally, we are paranoid.
[00:58] GhengisFarb: We just got through moving all of our Horsemen to the coast to repel a Vox invasion that appears to have been nothing but a ruse and we have three galleys we can haul them across the strait to dicuss this situation in more detail with your team.
[00:58] Shiber: There's no need to overreact, or take matters personally.
[00:58] -: *Aeson* okay
[00:58] Aeson: So you say there was no landing by Vox?
[00:58] *Panzer32* I don't think this is going anywhere... could you PM me an alternate deal that your team would accept?
[00:58] *Panzer32* (later is fine)
[00:59] Shiber: Now now, you know that Horsemen are no real threat.
[00:59] GhengisFarb: You called Panzer a liar three times in row when all he was doing was trying to answer your questions honestly.
[00:59] -: *Panzer32* Yes, of course
[00:59] -: *Panzer32* I'm really sorry that this happened
[00:59] -: *Panzer32* Please, accept my apologies. I was just probing around, I didn't mean for anyone to take this personally
[00:59] GhengisFarb: Fine, then you won't mind if we attack you with them.
[00:59] *Panzer32* GF tends to overreact on things like this
[00:59] *Panzer32* I know what you were trying to do
[01:01] -: *Aeson* logs posted
[01:01] Aeson: We both are at war with Vox right now. Surely we can find someway better than to go to war with each other.