DIPLO: GoW comments

[DeepO]

If we don't get chivalry, we might inquire who they would be willing to sell it to. Obviously, that leaves ND to do its own research (a good thing), but would it also keep Lego out of the loop? Maybe we need to avoid that...

If Lego would get chivalry from someone else, they migth consider it good if we would trade eg invention for their theo. We should be able to get that in time too, if we want to.

DeepO

[alva]

No Fun, just kill, Kill, KILL!!!!!!!

oops
-
Are we going to sell feudalism to others at all? (things change faster then I can keep up )

[Aeson]

Could someone draw up the formal agreement to send to GoW if it is ratified? I have to get offline for a few hours, and am not very good at formal writing anyways.

The terms:

-GoW sends GS 200g accepted on turn 93.
-GoW sends screenshots of all Vox troop movements seen from their Galleys for the next 5 turns (93-98).
-GoW's second Galley observes the coast from NW of Dissidentville to NW of Grog Mountain for those 5 turns.
-GoW's Galleys may not come within 8 tiles of each other in GS waters.
-GoW will land no units on Little Bob during the duration of the sea ROP + 10 turns.
-Gow accepts an NDA on Feudalism for 10 turns after it is received. (till turn 106)

-GS ups research to finish in 3 turns (turn 93)
-GS sends GoW Feudalism on turn 96.
-GS gives GoW full rights to explore the coastline of little BOB with 2 Galleys to look for crossings and to get the shape of the landmass. This sea ROP is in effect until GoW is able to map out the coast of Little BOB.
-GS agree's not to land units on BoB for the duration of the sea ROP +10 turns. (think we should reciprocate)

Future deal: (can be linked or not)

GoW researches Chivalry.
GoW gives Chivalry to GS.

GS gives 200g to GoW halfway through Chivlary's research by GoW.
GS accepts an NDA on Chivlary equivalent to the NDA GoW accepts on Feudalism (10 turns)

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Did I miss anything? Added a few little details that don't necessarily have to be put in... but I think it's safer for both teams.

[Aeson]

If we don't get chivalry, we might inquire who they would be willing to sell it to. Obviously, that leaves ND to do its own research (a good thing), but would it also keep Lego out of the loop? Maybe we need to avoid that...

We should be able to research Engineering or Theology in the time it takes GoW to get Chivalry. I'm sure we can work something out with Lego.

[Aeson]

Here is the letter to GoW if we decide to ratify this trade. Anything I missed or any suggestions?

GhengisFarb of the Glory of War,

It is the pleasure of GS to offer GoW this document confirming our agreement to the matters discussed previously today.

We feel the agreement is best served for both parties with a few particulars that were not touched on in the discussions earlier. These are only suggestions on the part of GS, and if they fail to meet with the approval of GoW they can be erased and the agreement will still stand. These inclusions will be noted with a *.

If GoW has any suggestions as to any revisions or additions, GS will give the same consideration to those proposals. This is to allow for the final polish to be added to the agreement while avoiding any further delays in the signing which is time critical at this juncture. In no case will either party be forced to agree to any such additions if they feel they aren't in their own best interests.

------------------------------

The Terms: (currently turn 93)

Research and Payment:

GoW sends 200g to GS this turn.

GS will increase research funding on Feudalism to finish the advance on turn 96.

GS promises to deliver Feudalism to GoW as soon as it is researched.

GoW agrees to an NDA (NTC) on Feudalism for for the duration of 10 turns from when it is delivered to them. After the 10 turns have passed, GoW is free to do with Feudalism as they see fit.

Sea ROP:

GS gives full access to the Galleys of GoW to navigate the shores of Little Bob. This access will last until GoW has had ample time to explore the circumferance of the continent or GoW is satisfied with the extent of their exploration.

GS agrees not to land any units on BoB for the duration of the Sea ROP *plus 10 turns, without explicit consent from GoW.

GoW agrees not to land any units on Little Bob for the duration of the Sea ROP *plus 10 turns, without explicit consent from GS.

GoW will use a Galley to observe the road between Elipolis and Dissidentville to report Voxian troop movements to GS for a duration of 5 turns. These reports will be in the form of screenshots showing the type and number of Voxian units within the Galley's sight. The Galley will each turn check the tiles NW of Grog Mountain, to 2 tiles South, NW of Vox's cultural borders if not hampered by Voxian vessels. After 5 turns time, the Galley is free to continue on it's way. *If GoW's Galley happens to be sunk by the Voxians, GoW will notify GS of it and the observation requirement will be dropped at that point.

GoW's ships in GS territory will not number more than two. Neither will the two venture within 8 tiles of each other. The first vessel will be allowed 2 Horsemen occupants. The second will be empty.

This Sea ROP will last until GoW's vessels are able to safely (or suicidally if GoW so chooses) leave GS' waters having explored their extent.

Future Chivalry Trade: (can be agreed to now or seperated from the above for further revision)

GoW researches Chivalry as soon as Feudalism is delivered to them.

GS will give 200g to GoW halfway through GoW's research of Chivalry.

GoW will give Chivalry to GS as soon as research is finished.

GS will observe an NDA (NTC) on Chivalry equivalent to that which GoW agrees to with Feudalism. After 10 turns have passed from GS receiving Chivalry, they are free to do with it as they see fit.

With some more fluff (and our ratification noted) at the end if we go through with this.

[asleepathewheel]

Aeson:

What consideration are we giving them for the asterixed items? (other than strenthening our bond)

edit: doh' I understand now. please ignore that.

[nbarclay]

Looks okay. Thanks for putting it together.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by DeepO
One thing though: why is GF chatting with Togas at the same moment as with us? Is he keeping them up to date? (Don't mention this in chat, just soemthing to keep in mind)

DeepO

GF isn't very familiar with his IRC client. He uses mIRC, and those dark red lines that he's seeing are private messages. mIRC shows private messages in channel windows by default, and colors them dark red.
If he didn't understand what these were, then it means that he wasn't chatting with Togas during our chat, or at most, he was in RP's room talking to Togas with regular messages (in that case, Togas would have written him in the RP room rather than sending him private messages).

If a room is tagged "secret", you can't see that the room exists by looking at the servers list ('/list' in most IRC programs, '/list -ALL' in some, e.g. B*tchX and EPIC) nor can you see if a certain user is talking in that channel by using the whois command (e.g. '/whois GhengisFarb'). The only way to tell if GhengisFarb and Togas were chatting in the same room (no way to track private messages though; that's why they're called private ) if that room was tagged secret is by guessing the name of the room and then pinging that room (e.g. '/ping #RP', '/ping #RolePlay'). The server will ping every user in this room, if it exists, and return the pings to you.
Unless Togas and GhengisFarb know how to get their IRC client not to return pings, this should work as long as you can guess the name of the channel that they're staying at. Since getting mIRC, which is what Togas and GF are using, to not return pings involves some cracking, which I think is beyond GF's abilities (his expertise is computer graphics, mostly 3D models and 2D scenes; He's really good at that though!), we can assume this method to be absolutely reliable. So use it, if you are in doubt!

[alva]

GS agrees not to land any units on BoB for the duration of the Sea ROP *plus 10 turns, without explicit consent from GoW.

Does this mean, they are allowed to land troops after 10 turns, or are not allowed to pass through our land after the turns have passed?
-
Perhaps asking for screenshot every turn (even when it's empty.)

[alva]

Would they be interested in having it at turn sooner? (feudalism)
Looks hat with our GA, we are able to do so.

[alva]

Shiber, could you sent your part of the LOG from yesterday to GF? (the part before I joined, thanks)

[Shiber]

It's all there. The logs, although posted in multiple parts and by different posters, are consistent.
Then again, I could be wrong. If you could tell me exactly which section of the logs is missing ("before this sentence" or "starting from here and ending here" kind of descriptions) I'd dig up the appropriate logs and post them.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by alva
Would they be interested in having it at turn sooner? (feudalism)
Looks hat with our GA, we are able to do so.

I'd support letting them know that we'll be done one turn sooner than expected. They'll be pleased with their research partners; credit with GoW is what we need right now to make future deals work.

[alva]

Alva, if you are sending the log: don't forget to edit the private messages out

, are there any in there?. I didn't know they show up into the main log...

[DeepO]

I'm not sure they are in your part, but they certainly are in Shiber's part. I could read the private conversation, it wouldn't be good to post that to GoW

As to the proposal: looks good to me, you can send it what I'm concerned. Maybe one comment would be that we agree that we can unilaterally decide that the Sea-RoP is cancelled, taking eg 10 turns of NAP, and 200 gold. We are probably not needing it, but in case we would, it can be handy.

Other comment: We would need to be sure we get chivalry not as the last civ in the game. So maybe include a point where, if GoW would be 5 turns later in delivering the tech than the first team to get it, we are allowed to buy it elsewhere, and GoW will resend the downpayment in full. Just to keep some pressure on them.

DeepO