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**Shiber** · April 10, 2003, 18:44

Originally posted by alva
Why do names not show up in my log?

Because they are surrounded with clauses, that the forum interprets as vb code. If you edit the message, you could see the correct contents.
Logs should be put through a word processor that would turn all '<'s to nothings and all '>'s to ':'s, or anything else that would get the job done.

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 18:46

Thx, Alva

Names: that's an option you can set in mIRC, I think, somewhere near logging. I'm not sure, though, no IRC expert.

I really like the idea of allowing them Sea ROP in exchange for up to date troop information, I fully support that. But still, 1 galley in our cultural borders at any time would be a good thing to ask for.

DeepO

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 18:48

Oh: and Iron: why not mention to them that we really would like to deal with them, however we currently can't spend resources on getting a harbor asap to accomodate them? Make it sound like they need it, but we would certainly welcome it.

DeepO

**asleepathewheel** · April 10, 2003, 18:51

Someone please thank GF for threatening to bash my face in

how funny, no iron. thats a huge continent but they are closed off from any possible deposits? Hmm.

Riders require iron? I haven't played Chinese checkers in a long time.

Imagine them fighting against ND and RP with only horses. haha. no wonder they want us dead. Probably the deal is to help vox in exchange for an iron supply.

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 18:57

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Probably the deal is to help vox in exchange for an iron supply.

Haven't thought about that one yet, Vox certainly has something to bargain with.

Actually, if GoW would appear with a galley off Monsoon at the exact same time as Vox prepares to attack us, I would be a bit scared. We definately need to trust them, make them swear their solemnly warrior's word or something

DeepO

**alva** · April 10, 2003, 19:03

hope this works

[00:42] /GhengisFarb/ Understood.
[00:42] /GhengisFarb/ They have several closely packed cities from what we can observe.
[00:43] /Aeson/ You have seen most everything of note of their terrain I'm thinking. Their land is very narrow.
[00:43] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, it is much smaller that our own land on Bob and we are the runt kingdom on Bob.

[00:44] /Aeson/ So I don't mind telling you that they have 5 cities (including Elipolis) N of the isthmus, and one S
[00:44] /Aeson/ 3 are size 4
[00:44] /GhengisFarb/ i don't know about sizes other than Eli.
[00:44] /Aeson/ A size 3 (Eli)
[00:44] /Aeson/ and 2 more size 1 (they have been whipping)
[00:45] /GhengisFarb/ I would say that they have commited themselves to taking GS out or else.
[00:45] /Aeson/ We can guarantee it is 'or else'

[00:46] /alva/ They did surpeise us, it was well set-up
[00:46] /alva/ *surprise
[00:46] /Aeson/ Yes, and almost at the worst possible time for us.
[00:47] /GhengisFarb/ So no official acceptance on the Feudalism deal?
[00:47] /Aeson/ But we can react very quickly.
[00:47] /alva/

[00:47] /alva/ ah well, that's whats makes this game fun

[00:47] /Aeson/ I'm afraid not. We need cash right now just to make sure we don't lose cities before we can build any Pikes
[00:48] /GhengisFarb/ So there's no point in our sending the 100 gold now.
[00:48] /Aeson/ No, it doesn't look like it
[00:49] /Aeson/ We can finish our upgrades with this next turn's commerce, and finish rushing a Barracks we need hopefully.
[00:50] /Aeson/ the 100 gold would only cover our losses at this point, we run a rather large deficit at 100% (republic does that)
[00:50] /GhengisFarb/ This is really forcing us to adjust our strategy as we have to research it ourselves now.

[00:50] /alva/ GF, why do you need Feud so fast? Vox is off BoB right, so you aren't in any imediate danger, are you?

[00:51] /Aeson/ We can still have it in 4-5 turns, and definitely will meet our initial timeframe
[00:51] /Aeson/ Our GA will start any turn now as well, that may shave off a turn or even two.
[00:52] /GhengisFarb/ We aren't researching anything as we wanted to start on Chivalry when we got Feudalism and ditched 5 turns of Feudalism research because we thougth we could buy it from you.
[00:53] /alva/ still can

[00:53] /Aeson/ You still can buy it from us of course. Shiber's feelers about going full bore were to see if we could find a deal where we could cover our gold needs and get both of us Feudalism faster. While your offer is generous, it doesn't come nearly to that point now that Vox has declared war on us.
[00:54] /Aeson/ Might we also strike some deal as to Chivalry?
[00:54] /Aeson/ We will be in our GA, and likely can research it about twice as fast as any other team.
[00:54] /Aeson/ (assuming Vox doesn't kill us

)
[00:54] /alva/ Would you be interested in us NOT selling chivalry to ND
[00:55] * alva kicks Aeson
[00:55] /Aeson/ Hey... save it for Vox!
[00:55] /alva/ lol
[00:55] /GhengisFarb/ We now are looking at getting Feudalism not too far from when we would have researched it our selves. If you lose some cities to Vox that may put Feudalism even farther out that 3 turns. We either take a chance that you will finish it which is not a definite or research it ourselves.
[00:56] /alva/ we won't loose 3 cities

[00:56] /Aeson/ If we emptied our cities of units, Vox couldn't hurt our research capacity enough to delay our timing of Feudalism.
[00:56] /Aeson/ Immortals just aren't that fast.
[00:57] /Aeson/ They have too far to travel.
[00:57] /Aeson/ And Vox has no Horses.
[00:57] /GhengisFarb/ You hope you want, but Vox has the advantage of haveing preplaced their units before the conflict. There are a bunch that should enter your borders next turn.
[00:57] /Aeson/ All vox can threaten in the next 6 turns is a size 4 city and a size 1 city, both relatively corrupt.
[00:58] /Aeson/ They can't enter our borders next turn except by sea, it's as simple as that.
[00:59] /Aeson/ We have enough warning from Grog to guarantee that they can't even do that this turn on the W coast either.
[00:59] /GhengisFarb/ If you finished Feudalism asap then we coudl start researching Chivalry while you concentrated solely on the war. Then you have both war resources and a speedy Chivalry.
[00:59] /Aeson/ We would need 200 gold up front. We have to upgrade our final few units.
[00:59] /Aeson/ it's the only way we can go full bore.
[01:00] /GhengisFarb/ If we gave you 200 gold up front will you guarantee us Feudalism in 2 turns?
[01:01] /Aeson/ Like I said earlier, I think Shiber's math was off. It takes us 3 turns (I don't have access to the save to make sure)
[01:02] /GhengisFarb/ Guaranteed to receive it in 3 turns and the right for our galleys to travel unmolested for 200 gold THIS turn, we will accept it before we send it.
[01:02] /Aeson/ 200 gold up front would give us 100 gold after the losses, so it might be doable.
[01:02] /Aeson/ It's a big deal, how long can you hold the save for?
[01:03] /Aeson/ Or would be willing that is.
[01:03] /GhengisFarb/ another 2 hours.
[01:03] * nbarclay has joined #GoW
[01:03] /Aeson/ Hello Nathan
[01:03] /alva/ I'm sorry (havn't read everything yet), but wasn't 200 gold the price for delivery in 7 turns?
[01:03] /nbarclay/ Hi everyoe
[01:03] /Aeson/ Yes it was.
[01:03] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, but we are paying it up front
[01:04] /Aeson/ But we do gain by having enough gold for our upgrades and to get Pikes ASAP
[01:04] /nbarclay/ We'll lose as much up front researching as we'll get up front from you.
[01:04] /nbarclay/ Our ability to upgrade troops will be slowed down.
[01:04] /GhengisFarb/ you can shift to partial research and upgrade units each turn starting the turn you finish Feudalism.
[01:05] /Aeson/ GF, would you be willing to guarantee that your Galleys would never be within 8 tiles of each other in our waters? (should work with the delay of the second anyways)
[01:05] /nbarclay/ If we try to deliver in three turns, we have to go pretty much full steam.
[01:05] /GhengisFarb/ No two of our galleys within 8 tiles of each other in your water?
[01:05] /alva/ How many galleys btw?
[01:05] /GhengisFarb/ 2
[01:05] /nbarclay/ As I recall, we needed three turns at our highest viable research rate to finish.
[01:06] /alva/ Why 2?

[01:06] /GhengisFarb/ We were going to send one each way along your continents coast
[01:07] /alva/ they are empty, are they not?

[01:07] /Aeson/ The second galley will be scouting Vox's road for 5 turns.
[01:07] /Aeson/ Sending us screenshots.

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 19:19

Guys, don't push GF too hard, it's going good it seems, but don't swarm him.

Further, I think the 200 gold up front might be worth it, but try to squeeze another 20 or so from it, they might do it. And tell them that no matter what, we will be researching chivalry our selves, and if we want to, can promise to be first in getting it. They don't seem to realize this, it seems...

Also, I think they assume they can research it themselves if we would trade it to everybody else (4th researcher cost). As a last resort, you could mention that if they would not buy it from us, and go for it themselves, we would probably have to lower our pirces to the rest, and delay getting it a little to be timed a 1-2 turn before them. They would lose more then can be gained by doing it themselves if RP would not buy it from them.

DeepO

**alva** · April 10, 2003, 19:26

[01:07] /alva/ they are empty, are they not?

[01:07] /Aeson/ The second galley will be scouting Vox's road for 5 turns.
[01:07] /Aeson/ Sending us screenshots.
[01:08] /GhengisFarb/ They have mobile units in case they locate a big island that they can't completely research from the shore.
[01:08] /GhengisFarb/ but no settlers
[01:08] /Aeson/ So 2 Horses in each?
[01:08] /Aeson/ or just 1?
[01:09] /GhengisFarb/ no, one in each but we will move both to the scout galley in case vox tries to sink the one by Eli.
[01:09] /Aeson/ Ok. And you realize that we will kill those units if they land on GS's continent?
[01:10] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, I don't think two Horsemen would last long in the heart of an opposing empires production base.
[01:10] /Aeson/ I agree, not with our road network
[01:11] /Aeson/ I feel it's only fair to warn you that you won't find any Galley crossings.
[01:11] /Aeson/ Not S of the Vox border at least, can't say for sure up N
[01:12] /GhengisFarb/ At least we will map out the area covered by known continents and be able to guess where other continents might lie.
[01:12] /GhengisFarb/ We've already found one 18 tile island.
[01:13] /Aeson/ We had heard that. Supposedly Lux was heading there before Vox destroyed them
[01:13] /GhengisFarb/ We found it so I doubt they would have beat us to it.
[01:14] /alva/ Wouldn't it make more sence to buy iron from us and use the galley for something else?
[01:14] /Aeson/ It wasn't really GS' concern if Lux made it there or not, just that they left.

[01:14] /Aeson/ You certainly had the jump on them.
[01:14] /GhengisFarb/ But then we are at your mercy for Iron, if you decide to attack us you will just cut us off.
[01:15] /alva/ Finding a small island right next to us, is going to have the same end result, isn't it.

[01:16] /nbarclay/ Iron that can't be reached by pure coast tiles is worthless until Astronomy, so anything in our direction would be a long-term proposition.
[01:16] /Aeson/ If they find such an Island, maybe not... cause it would be invisible

[01:16] /nbarclay/ Any islands, that is.
[01:16] /alva/ Or , you could just be nice to us...

[01:16] /GhengisFarb/ You would never know of our secret Iron Island because you don't trade maps.

[01:17] /nbarclay/ But if your ships can find it, couldn't one of ours?
[01:17] /Aeson/ It's a failing on our part, we enjoy the dark
[01:17] /alva/ not orange?

[01:17] /GhengisFarb/ What ships, how many ships do you have?
[01:18] /alva/ for the moment , as much as we need.
[01:18] /nbarclay/ I'd rather not speak about current force levels. But I was really thinking more toward the future.
[01:19] /nbarclay/ For the moment, any galleys we might have or get soon have higher priorities than exploration.
[01:20] /nbarclay/ And no, we haven't been building up anything that would threaten Bob.
[01:22] /GhengisFarb/ What the?
[01:22] /Aeson/ One will need to be replacing your scout vessel by the time it moves off.
[01:22] /Aeson/ You had mentioned Luxuries to Shiber right?
[01:23] /Aeson/ Something wrong?
[01:23] /GhengisFarb/ I think Panzer did
[01:24] /Aeson/ The ROP would open up a sea route between us. I'm not sure how it works in MP though, do both need the map?
[01:25] /GhengisFarb/ Did you see a red comment line in the dialogue?
[01:25] /alva/ ?
[01:26] /Aeson/ No I didn't
[01:26] /Aeson/ What did it say?
[01:27] /GhengisFarb/ Togas is chatting with me and I keep seeing comments in this dialogue.
[01:27] /Aeson/ That is very weird
[01:28] /GhengisFarb/ He's pissed because he thinks we are trying to get Feudalsim and he wants a trade embargo against GS
[01:30] * Panzer32[GoW] has joined #GoW
[01:30] /Panzer32[GoW]/ hello, Im back
[01:30] /alva/

[01:30] /Panzer32[GoW]/ so whats up?
[01:30] /alva/ Why the trade embargo?
[01:30] /Aeson/ Welcome back Panzer
[01:31] /Panzer32[GoW]/ trade embargo!?

Keeps getting better, we are almost at war with RP too now

, me is guessing, real life is having some influence

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 19:35

You can't be serious... would this be true? GF certainly spills everything that comes into his mind, or is he just playing this?

Anyway, maybe it's time to tell them more about not getting too manipulated by RP. Maybe they figured that if we would be prepared, we would win instead of lose from this war, and see their mistake. Cool

DeepO

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 19:39

BTW, it seems my comment to RP has reached its destination... I did mention to them that possibly GoW was just selling the tech to them after NDA had expired. Oh boy, this is great

One thing though: why is GF chatting with Togas at the same moment as with us? Is he keeping them up to date? (Don't mention this in chat, just soemthing to keep in mind)

DeepO

**alva** · April 10, 2003, 19:45

[01:30] /Aeson/ Welcome back Panzer
[01:31] /Panzer32[GoW]/ trade embargo!?

[01:32] /Aeson/ Currently the negotiations stand at:
[01:32] /GhengisFarb/ He wants you to be taken down a few notches.
[01:32] /alva/ what for?

[01:32] /Aeson/ GoW: 200g, scout Vox's road with galleys for 5 turns with second Galley
[01:33] /Aeson/ GS: Sea ROP for 2 galleys not within 8 tiles of each other, Feudalism in 3 turns
[01:33] /nbarclay/ Just so it's clear, we'll get Feudalism on the third turn after we crank up research.
[01:34] /Panzer32[GoW]/ sounds reasonable.
[01:34] /nbarclay/ And we could deliver it immediately after, assuming the deal is approved.
[01:34] /GhengisFarb/ Agreed
[01:35] /Aeson/ You will be transfering both units onto the first galley, are they stacked or will that take a turn?
[01:36] /Aeson/ The NDA is still in effect as well. 10 turns was agreeable since you get it earlier?
[01:36] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, both units onto the first galley, they aren't stacked
[01:37] /GhengisFarb/ Yes 10 turn NDA
[01:37] /Aeson/ We just want to know when to expect your expedition.
[01:37] /Aeson/ To be clear, that is an NDA for GoW trading it, not for GS
[01:37] /GhengisFarb/ They have already moved this turn
[01:37] /Aeson/ And you are inbetween elipolis and Grog mountain?
[01:37] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, GOW want trade Feudalism to anyone else for 10 turns
[01:38] /GhengisFarb/ We are in the tile nw of Grog Mountain
[01:39] /Aeson/ Ok, you would enter our territory (if it's still ours

) with 1 of the galleys in 2 turns.
[01:39] /GhengisFarb/ I'll take your word on that, I don' t know where your territory begins right now.
[01:40] /GhengisFarb/ brb phone call
[01:40] /Aeson/ 4 tiles S, 1 SW will be the first GS tile you enter.
[01:46] /Panzer32[GoW]/ what does NDA stand for? I always called it NTC (no trade clause)
[01:46] /nbarclay/ Non-disclosure agreement.
[01:46] /Aeson/ Probably an artifact of us developing Alphabet and Writing seperately

[01:47] /Panzer32[GoW]/ so we can't tell the others that we have feudalism?
[01:47] /Panzer32[GoW]/ probably

[01:47] /alva/ and not sell either

[01:48] /Aeson/ They will know that someone has it if they look at the research times. We would prefer if you didn't broadcast it of course
[01:48] /nbarclay/ Especially no sell, trade, give, etc.
[01:48] /Panzer32[GoW]/ well, if we don't tell them, they can't buy it

[01:49] /Aeson/ Is there any interest in coordinating Chivalry research?
[01:50] /Aeson/ If both of us research it we both get hurt, but if one of us feeds the other gold, then we both get it just as fast, and have more upgrade money between us

**Aeson** · April 10, 2003, 20:04

So, what's the verdict? I vote for this.. it gives us 2-4 pikes in or near Arashi before Vox can get to us, along with information about what Vox is sending.

It does tie up some extra troops to shadow GoW's boat, the main drawback.

**DeepO** · April 10, 2003, 20:06

You get my approval, Aeson. But be sure you have enough [edit: votes] before agreeing on it.

DeepO

BTW, you would make a fine diplomat, I think there are still ambassador positions open, if you're interested. Although Vox's ambassadorship most likely won't be needed for long

**Aeson** · April 10, 2003, 20:07

I'd just like to add that GoW giving us 200g up front bodes well for their involvement with Vox. They wouldn't want to waste their 200g giving it to us to do somethign they could have done anyways (landed troops for us to kill).

**nbarclay** · April 10, 2003, 20:09

I vote yes.

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