Vox Controli comments part two

[zeit]

I'll semd Betahound a message- i can just ask him what he thinks of this. But i want to know- what amount of gpt? i guess it will be a percentile, so, how much?

[Shiber]

I dunno about percentage, I wouldn't trust Vox to be honest about their income.
Let's ask for 12 gpt. Considering the fact that we intend to provide them with Currency, Construction and The Republic for free during the next 20 turns, this is more than fair (after all, it's just 240 gold total).
Oh, and an NDA on every tech that we gift them as part of this agreement, of course.

[zeit]

Shiber- If we want 12, let's start with 15...



Any other opinions?

[Shiber]

Actually, I was afraid that they would be insulted. You know that their income is very small... it might even be as low as 20 gold per turn.
I still suggest that we ask for 12. We can always ask for more to compensate when we renegotiate, 20 turns from now.

[zeit]

Okay, what do you think of this?

Respected BetaHound of Vox Controli.

Greetings from the Gathering Storm. I bring you this offer, a revision of our current tech sharing arrangement. You have already brought up this idea to Shiber in a chat you had, so I’ll go straight into the deatails:

1) The treaty lasts for a period of 20 turns.

2) in that period of 20 turns, VC gives the GS 12gpt.
2) The GS shares with VC the techs they have researched or have purchased, as soon as the GS acquires the techs, as long as these do not fall under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with other teams, in which the GS has agreed not to trade these techs onwards.
3) Out of all the techs given to by the GS in the 20 turn period, Republic, Currency and Construction will be for VC use only- and will not be traded by VC to any other team.
4) VC will share with the GS it’s free medieval technology.
5) The treaty can be renegotiated after a period of 20 turns.

I consider this arrangement to suit the current developing situation better than the one we’ve had so far and hope you find it acceptable.

Cordially
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.

[FrustratedPoet]

Do we really want to put a clause in there that specifies that the treaty must be renewed after 20 turns? That seems like a pretty big commitment.

[Shiber]

Zeit, please mention that during the duration of the 20 turns gpt agreement, Vox will get any tech that we come by that doesn't come with an NDA, including Currency, Construction and The Republic. Please also note that they may continue, legally end or renegotiate this treaty in 20 turns; if the treaty continues, then Vox will continue to get every tech that GS comes by that didn't come with an NDA.
We need to make this proposal as clear and understandable as possible.

[zeit]

I have tweaked it a bit, anything else?

[Theseus]

Two 2's?

Good job.

[Shiber]

It's wonderful! I love it!
Cut, print, we're outta here.

[zeit]

Hmm... some news from GoW- check the log. I think i'll send it anyway, a good measure of their stance- after all, we've discussed a combined attack against them as well, so i won't take GF's not too seriously, not before we check things out for ourselves.

[Aeson]

It's probably for the best that Vox doesn't want to give us gpt. 20 turns would be too long a wait before we hit them, BOB might have a foothold on our continent by then.

We should try to sum up with Vox once we get Monotheism from them. Anyone been keeping track of exactly what we've given them and they've given us?

[Shiber]

Re: tech trading:
I see there's little choice left. Vox wants us to commit to a long-term agreement - probably because they are afraid that we might attack them soon. I suggest straight trades from now on, and no NDAs.
Btw, I suggest that we start working on deals for Construction, Currency and The Republic with GoW ASAP.

[zeit]

Btw, I suggest that we start working on deals for Construction, Currency and The Republic with GoW ASAP.

Shiber- you mean ND, right? as we've split the market so that we get Vox and ND, Lego gets GoW and RP...
I'll PM Borc, and ask him which tech do they want, we'll also offer a discount for taking the three together, i'll update the turn threads accordingly.

As for Vox- they're really naive if they think we'll commit to long term deals at this point- heck! even 20 turns is alot for Vox, which can be dubbed "dead team walking"...
An arrangement were we get their free MT for Cur+Rep+Const is clearly in their favor, and i ask: "should we?" . On one hand- Vox are goners, they won't be able to trade anything for anyone in the near future, so why not get the tech from them- then end their existence?. I'll quote Aeson, IMO viable plan, of declaring war on Vox in about 14 turns:

Forgot about WC's.

Our first strike capability comes close enough to the Pyramids build that the upgrade to Horsemen would just be a waste anyways. We can have 2 Horsemen, 4 WC's, and up to 9 Swordsmen (likely want to only send 4 initially) in 14 turns, with the Pyramids finishing in 16. The 6 'fast units' almost certainly would be able to take Dissidentville. I would be very suprised if they have built another Spear there yet (they haven't had the city for 20 turns since Lux left, right?), and we haven't seen any troops moving S... so they very well may only have that one Spear.

Building the road and city as I did in the scenario will allow us to hide our troops until the turn of the attack. By that point it should be more obvious what constitutes overwhelming force... they may have most of their units trying to hold onto their BOB foothold. My initial reaction was just to try and figure out our earliest possible offensive, if Vox starts losing badlyand we need to rush to claim some land. RP could do it perhaps, can't see GoW beating us to the punch, certainly not ND.

That means we get their MT, and that's, according to schedule, well before we declare on them. We will also avoid serious public criticism- everyone will still love to hate Vox, and we'll have ample of of reasons to justify actions against them. OTOH, deciding to end the partnership, and strike the same deal, not as part of a broader tech arrangement, we might give them a signal: "we're about to dump you...". So, we can strike a deal without making any commitment, and possibly arouse their suspicion, or betray them by making them believe the partnership is still in progress... I can't begin to picture their suprised and angered looks when they see our forces marching towards Diss.
We could just hold on and keep them waiting for now, but we know how stressful they get when kept waiting, so i think that time works against us.

So, what do we do about Vox?

[alva]

Wouldn't it be more profitarable in the long term, not to sell these techs at rock bottom price? Yes, we would Lego to do the same.

Right now, we are allowing them to build up units, do some conquering by almost giving them these techs.
The moment we hit midevil, tech really becomes expensive (and if Vox is gone, there is less deevaluation), if we force them to do their own research and coordinate our own with ego, I'm sure we should be able to get a nice tech lead.
(Something we could use to incite a nice little war on Bob maybe?)