Okay... the last messages:
1. I still would value screenshots of what Lux can see now. Please get that icluded in the deal, as it will take at least 7 turns before we can get a world map from them (with any delay, it will be a lot more)
2. Tell Vox they do not trade CoL for Lit from RP, for the simple reason we do that already. But let them stall RP a while...
3. not trading republic to anyone: I would like it if it is worded a lot less strong, so we can delay others getting reublic, but could still sell it once we think we're sufficiently ahead, and others can give enough for it. Simply not trading it at all would be good for Vox, but not for us: it means we research the most expensive tech of the ancient era, and can't profit from it. Further, he who builds the GL will imediately get the tech, and is not bound to sell it to the rest of the world... certainly a bad deal.
I agree we should keep it to ourselves for as long as possible, but the moment someone builds the GL, or we fear someone is about to discover republic, we should trade as crazy. This deal with Vox prevents us from doing so.
4. ND: we should negotiate that deal, not Vox. However I certainly wouldn't mind if Vox tries to arrange something after we already got what we needed.
5. future research: Currency seems okay. we've got multiple possible ways of getting construction, we're not very interested in monarchy (and we don't need it either to proceed), so the only thing left in the ancient era is currency. I doubt Vox is going to be the first to research it, but let them spend all those beakers on a tech that someone can research faster, it's better then stockpiling gold for their immortal upgrades.
6. Common research image to the outer world: I've been thinking on that one a lot, and it's not easy. First of all there is the problem that Vox's commerce is less then half ours, the longer our common deal is in effect, the less adv antagous is becomes for us. With republic, we certainly crossed the line of balance, and all techs after that will be a greater loss to us. Somehow, we must tell Vox this, and warn them that this situation can't proceed for ever, no matter how much we liked our deal so far.
Further, if we want to keep an image up, the first thing Vox needs to do is keep its mouth shut on where its techs are coming from, so as long as they are relatively late in acquiring it (say a few turns behind the rest of the world), everybody could have been trading with them, not necessarily us. So, we need to make them understand that us not giving our techs to them before we secured a few deals would be in their best interest.
The moment Vox gives Philosphy to us, it will be clear to the world that they researched it for us, and that there was a longer deal in effect to trade it to us. Not a problem, but they need an explanation why they won't trade it onwards. One of the possible explanations could be that we gave them MM, lit, CoL and whatever we'll get from ND for their 'inferior' tech if they simply do not trade with anyone else. But, this explanation can only be hinted at by Vox when other teams are getting upset of their unwillingness to trade philosophy. Also, if the deals get very sweat, I would allow Vox to cross us on that imaginary deal, and e.g. agree to 500 gold for philosophy (from multiple teams together). Of course,we should get part of the proceeds.
This would keep our deal silent for quite a bit longer, and deny other teams anything to trade to Vox, as they already got it from us. Sounds cool to me
7. last point: I would want to negotiate that Vox is allowed to take Portia back the first moment a Bobian civ lands close to Portia, and is able to take it the next turn. No matter how peaceful it's intentions, or how weak their invasion force, the first foreign warrior adjacent to Portia should mean Vox is not only allowed, but required to take the city back. In order to do this, it will need 1 unit adjacent to the city. Oh, and it should send a screenshot of the situation to both Trip and us before they attack, to proof it's not simply an opportunistic move.
8. really last point: don't we need to discuss in more detail how the deal with Lux will end, by specifying when Portia will be captured back? I favor letting it be retaken by Vox the moment Lux's galley leaves port, but so that any gold won by the victory gets returned to Lux immediately.
DeepO
1. I still would value screenshots of what Lux can see now. Please get that icluded in the deal, as it will take at least 7 turns before we can get a world map from them (with any delay, it will be a lot more)
2. Tell Vox they do not trade CoL for Lit from RP, for the simple reason we do that already. But let them stall RP a while...
3. not trading republic to anyone: I would like it if it is worded a lot less strong, so we can delay others getting reublic, but could still sell it once we think we're sufficiently ahead, and others can give enough for it. Simply not trading it at all would be good for Vox, but not for us: it means we research the most expensive tech of the ancient era, and can't profit from it. Further, he who builds the GL will imediately get the tech, and is not bound to sell it to the rest of the world... certainly a bad deal.
I agree we should keep it to ourselves for as long as possible, but the moment someone builds the GL, or we fear someone is about to discover republic, we should trade as crazy. This deal with Vox prevents us from doing so.
4. ND: we should negotiate that deal, not Vox. However I certainly wouldn't mind if Vox tries to arrange something after we already got what we needed.
5. future research: Currency seems okay. we've got multiple possible ways of getting construction, we're not very interested in monarchy (and we don't need it either to proceed), so the only thing left in the ancient era is currency. I doubt Vox is going to be the first to research it, but let them spend all those beakers on a tech that someone can research faster, it's better then stockpiling gold for their immortal upgrades.
6. Common research image to the outer world: I've been thinking on that one a lot, and it's not easy. First of all there is the problem that Vox's commerce is less then half ours, the longer our common deal is in effect, the less adv antagous is becomes for us. With republic, we certainly crossed the line of balance, and all techs after that will be a greater loss to us. Somehow, we must tell Vox this, and warn them that this situation can't proceed for ever, no matter how much we liked our deal so far.
Further, if we want to keep an image up, the first thing Vox needs to do is keep its mouth shut on where its techs are coming from, so as long as they are relatively late in acquiring it (say a few turns behind the rest of the world), everybody could have been trading with them, not necessarily us. So, we need to make them understand that us not giving our techs to them before we secured a few deals would be in their best interest.
The moment Vox gives Philosphy to us, it will be clear to the world that they researched it for us, and that there was a longer deal in effect to trade it to us. Not a problem, but they need an explanation why they won't trade it onwards. One of the possible explanations could be that we gave them MM, lit, CoL and whatever we'll get from ND for their 'inferior' tech if they simply do not trade with anyone else. But, this explanation can only be hinted at by Vox when other teams are getting upset of their unwillingness to trade philosophy. Also, if the deals get very sweat, I would allow Vox to cross us on that imaginary deal, and e.g. agree to 500 gold for philosophy (from multiple teams together). Of course,we should get part of the proceeds.
This would keep our deal silent for quite a bit longer, and deny other teams anything to trade to Vox, as they already got it from us. Sounds cool to me
7. last point: I would want to negotiate that Vox is allowed to take Portia back the first moment a Bobian civ lands close to Portia, and is able to take it the next turn. No matter how peaceful it's intentions, or how weak their invasion force, the first foreign warrior adjacent to Portia should mean Vox is not only allowed, but required to take the city back. In order to do this, it will need 1 unit adjacent to the city. Oh, and it should send a screenshot of the situation to both Trip and us before they attack, to proof it's not simply an opportunistic move.
8. really last point: don't we need to discuss in more detail how the deal with Lux will end, by specifying when Portia will be captured back? I favor letting it be retaken by Vox the moment Lux's galley leaves port, but so that any gold won by the victory gets returned to Lux immediately.
DeepO
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