Vox Controli comments part two

[Shiber]

Sounds good, but I suggest that we don't mention the word planning Just saying that we need it as a guarantee would suffice. We don't want to raise any eyebrows, we want our request to look as innocent as possible, and we don't want them to think that we're planning something that would require their minimap (otherwise they'd think that they can delay our plans by delaying the minimap, and therefore have a new bargaining chip).

[zeit]

Good idea, i thought that from the very beginning we should push for the minimap, or screenshots of their main view.
I guess it makes sense to raise the issue now- Trip is looking for a way to stay in the worldwide trading game (i would have told him to forget that dream- Lux has no economical base on which to build any trading capabilities- they should just stick to survival) and with his WM, and now his minimap (as a guarantee, like Shiber said) they can feel, if only for a short time- that they in the game.

Keep in mind that very soon Lux will have no bargaining chips left, and they will realize that. The new proposal Nathan made is surely a fair one, but it puts many restrictions on Lux. I don't know if Lux will stand the pressure- and they could do something drastic- for the sake of fun, or screwing Vox or us. We must be prepared for this- taking out Lux if they seem to stir trouble.

We also have to ask them what they want us to tell or not to tell GoW- we have our considerations here, but perhaps they could help us elegantly evading those issues.
I thought one way to do that is to direct all GoW's questions to Lux, or maybe stalling their move by first inquiring them about the causes of war between them and Lux.
This way we could divert their attention from Lux whereabouts, and have them defending their actions (which they seem eager to), but we need at least partial cooperation from Lux (some sort of debate, or at least some comments they can send us, maybe some fuss on the board as well...).

[nbarclay]

Proposed message to Lux (since I've already been involved in the dealings with Trip since they moved here):

Greetings Trip and Lux Invicta,

BetaHound has indicated that you and Vox have worked out an arrangement on friendlier terms than what had previously been the case, but that you'll need 20 gold from us to make it work. We can live with that as long as we still get your world map when one of us gets Map Making, and we'd like to go ahead and get a current minimap from you (via e-mail) so we don't have to wait for the full world map to get a clearer picture of the situation on Bob. If you agree, we'll send you the gold as soon as we get the minimap. Since other formats tend to lose small amounts of information in compression, we'd like to get the minimap in .bmp format. (You can send it to me at nbarclay at hiwaay dot net.) I hope this meets with your approval.

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

Edit: Changed to indicate we want the minimap before we give them the gold and to specify .bmp format.

Edit: Changed to "when one of us gets Map Making."

[Shiber]

I like it. Minimap first, then gold.

[DeepO]

One comment: ask for a .bmp version of their minimap, to avoid all confusion later on.

Other then that, it's okay for me too.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

I edited the message to reflect DeepO's and Shiber's thoughts. How does it look now?

[DeepO]

Good editing.

There might be one more thing to change, but I doubt it will make a difference: they can give us their WM the moment we discover MM, not when they get MM. I doubt there will be a lot of delay, but still... the earliest would possibly be one or more turns faster

DeepO

[Theseus]

Given Beta's last post to Nathan...

It is now confirmed: Vox are back-stabbing liars.

[nbarclay]

Theseus, I don't see the situation as nearly so black and white. The arrangement Vox and Lux had worked out was based on the circumstances that existed at the time. Presumably, some aspect of the situation (or Vox's perception of the situation) changed, and Lux's behavior almost certainly played a huge role in whatever it was that changed. [Edit: And GoW's latest message tells us what it was that changed.] When you're a guest in someone else's nation, you don't cause them problems and expect to be allowed to stay.

Nathan

[notyoueither]

RP is giving them grief over Literature? What a laugh, considering RP shopped CoL around.

They should simply delay GoW on MM. They could present that they are in no hurry to make commitments for gold when GoW does not yet have the tech. I assume Vox knows and is supposed to know that GoW does not yet have MM.

Buy the way, we should discourage Vox from involving any requirements from us for their tech trading. It delays their responses and has the very real potential of blowing the cover of our trading agreement. GoW has demonstrated an impatience with negotiating with teams who have to wait for answers from other teams.

[notyoueither]

btw, No skin off my nose if they give GoW Literature and a small amount of their own gold for MM.

[DeepO]

why would RP annoy Vox, while not sending any message to us? I can only think that Togas tries to push Vox in believing we did something unfair, while he knows we would instantly brush it off the table as perfectly acceptable. Of course, Vox is easier to influence then us, and I think RP tries to use that...

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Since Philosophy is already available from sources other than us, Vox wants to start shopping it around too. I'm going to give them the green light unless someone comes up with a good reason not to pretty quickly.

[Aeson]

I agree, let them try to get anything they can for it.

[DeepO]

A good idea from legoland: try to sell the lego contact to Vox, before someone else does this. We are not bound by any deal as to not disclose it...

DeepO