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  • #61
    If you do all of that, you could have Vox and RP make a settler and have them send it into the heart of our land. That way they are both safe, so long as we are.

    This will be clear soon I think. If GoW gets the fort city, they should propose taking out Vox and offer us that land for RP as a big carrot.

    This protects them from any UN tricks. They then have only to figure out what to do with ND. This is the hardest one. They cannot ally with them against us and win, so they may try to do an ally with Vox and ND.

    In that scenario, they do what we are tring, but take out RP and damage us. Now they have two votes and no one else does.

    If they only eliminat RP, they can't lose to the vote. If they also eliminate us, they can win the vote.

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    • #62
      Aren't we scheduled to get Fission in Trade from either ND or GoW? I expect Uranium-vision is the priority for them. We need either a leader from the next couple of turns or a prebuild scheduled for the date we recieve that tech.

      I have to go out now, and I MUST do some work tomorrow, but I'll discuss this more asap. The settler thing at the poles is good, and we want to say soon to Vox something like 'We can keep you not only alive till the end of the game, but can make you a winning partner'. I think it's our best chance of winning.

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      • #63
        Finally - the more I think about this the more I reckon MZ will be thinking about it too. He keeps talking about his diplo skills in public. Sleepy? Are you ready to resume your cordial relations with Rhotherill?

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        • #64
          I can do anything asked of me, but I don't want to screw anything up!

          do we have a spy in Vox yet? Can we steal plans if they don't have any cities?

          Would lego be willing to be buried deep in the heart of ND? Hell, ND could easily tuck and protect both ND and Lego in their belly.

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          • #65
            No more time to spend on this, I'm afraid. I just got some unexpected visitors (sometimes they remind me I've got a social life too).

            We need to discover fission ourselves, no question about that. We can't risk someone else prebuilding the UN... without it, we won't even be ligelible for voting.

            Hold a moment before contacting anyone, this is just a wild idea. And yes, maybe MZ had the same one... but they have to take us out in order to do it (and RP as well, but that's not a problem).

            Lego being rescued by ND... interesting thought. Only. somehow I don't see ND proposing that. And for as far as I know him, Vondrack is too proud to fall from one of the main competitors to a puppet in one turn.

            DeepO

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            • #66
              I don't think Vox will go along with it as things stand now. Almost sure of it. The only way I see the Diplomatic victory working is if we offer to abide by a coin-flip to see who gets voted for. Since RP are in our pocket, it would give us a 50/50 shot at winning. Vox gets a 50/50 shot too. To make sure RP goes along with it we might want to include them too though. We might negotiate the odds a bit given "power", as Vox has no chance to win right now, but we do have a decent one. Or have it 33/33/33 with RP's win going to us.

              "All the current and past inhabitants of Estonia/Stormia (aside from Lux ) ban together to make the little continent big."

              I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Vox win if we lost the coin flip. They were the only ones given a worse start than we were (though Lux's start wasn't too good, but a good share of that was diplomatic rather than RNG).

              Vox is a valuable ally though, and we should try to build a closer friendship in any case. They get a free Tech when entering the Modern Era.

              We may be in position to help Vox reclaim their homeland (combination FP build and Palace jump), and have RP still gain with more and better land on Lego. That would probably help us in Vox's eyes, but RP and GoW have to be along with it too. I think we should tentatively start these talks.

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              • #67
                I agree we need to get Fission. I don't know that we have to research it ourselves unless we want to go the Diplomatic route, but Uranium is huge even if the UN isn't.

                As for the Spaceship side of things, if we complete the Apollo project in EotS, would we be able to switch pre-builds through the city screen that same turn? "EotS has built the Apollo Program"->View City->Arrow keys

                If so, couldn't we build the entire spaceship with no warning?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by zeit
                  Seriously, someone must come up with an efficient counter-tactic for this blitz. honestly, doesn't it seem like an almost too potent tactic?
                  Rip up the roads and rails on the border. No blitz.
                  (\__/)
                  (='.'=)
                  (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                  • #69
                    I have no problem with the coin flip idea with RP/Vox/GS. No matter who gets the nod, we will be seen as the winners.

                    This gives both of them a reason to have stayed in the game and a reason to stick to the deal.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Aeson
                      I agree we need to get Fission. I don't know that we have to research it ourselves unless we want to go the Diplomatic route, but Uranium is huge even if the UN isn't.

                      As for the Spaceship side of things, if we complete the Apollo project in EotS, would we be able to switch pre-builds through the city screen that same turn? "EotS has built the Apollo Program"->View City->Arrow keys

                      If so, couldn't we build the entire spaceship with no warning?
                      There's an idea. Do we have enough good cities?
                      (\__/)
                      (='.'=)
                      (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by vmxa1
                        I have no problem with the coin flip idea with RP/Vox/GS. No matter who gets the nod, we will be seen as the winners.

                        This gives both of them a reason to have stayed in the game and a reason to stick to the deal.
                        I wouldn't mind a coin flip where RP could win it themselves. Although there is the small matter of actually eliminating Lego. That will be no small feat given their scads of infantry, artillery and fleet.

                        About the spaceship, I'm not sure this game is gonna last that long. GoW, ND, and us are now all eyeing each other nervously.
                        (\__/)
                        (='.'=)
                        (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                        • #72
                          Umm, it's been a long time since I've built the UN, but as I recall only a maximum of 3 civs get included on the ballot: the top two civs (according to Power, Score?), and the civ that built the UN. There is the possibility of there being only two in case the UN builder is one of the top civs.

                          Edit: Ok, I just checked it, and these are the official rules (from C3C - did this change from PTW?):

                          First Candidate: Civ that builds the UN
                          Second Candidate: Civ with 25% of world's population
                          Third Candidate: Civ with 25% of world's land area

                          So, this means that the ballot looks like:

                          1. GS - assuming we build the UN
                          2. ND - land area
                          3. GoW - population?

                          Without having opened the save recently, I can only assume that ND has both 25% of the world's land area, and 25% of the world's population. So it's either: us versus ND, or us versus GoW and ND.

                          Vox cannot win diplomatically. Personally, I would not want to have them win at all, since I prefer the strong to win (which is why I like balanced starting locations). Vox will therefore probably side with...who? Are they willing to vote for the team that drove them from their home continent? Do they really have reason to bear ND or GoW ill will?

                          If I remember things right, RP is in our pocket, which is a free vote for us. We cannot really expect any of the other teams to vote our way without some fancy diplomacy on our part.

                          It's too hard to tell who Lego will vote for if they survive, so let's assume they are completely eradicated (I think this is better for us anyway if we decide to go for the UN).

                          So, we have, if GoW is on the ballot:

                          GS: GS
                          GoW: GoW
                          ND: ND
                          RP: GS
                          Vox: ?

                          Vox only needs not to GoW or ND, or obstain, for us to win. Furthermore, if just one of ND or GoW is enticed to vote for us, we win.

                          If GoW is not on the ballot:

                          GS: GS
                          GoW: GS or ND
                          ND: ND
                          RP: GS
                          Vox: ?

                          Here, Vox's vote decides who wins. They would probably know this when the voting screen comes up.
                          Our challenge, therefore, is to ensure they vote for us in this case.

                          From both cases, it seems clear to me that we need to lean on GoW and/or Vox to win diplomatically.
                          And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

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                          • #73
                            We could give the UN city to to Vox or RP the turn before the vote. Vox would come at the end of the turn order, so they'd accept the city and call the vote, and at that point everyone would vote their next turn? Could Vox then give the UN city back to us and not affect the vote? In that case no one but us and Vox would see the city switch hands. Would the vote still happen if the UN were razed? Would Vox still win if they happened to be eliminated and we kept the UN intact so they win the vote?

                            It would be interesting to figure out how Diplomatic victory works in a PBEM. I'd rather not win diplomatically though.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Aeson
                              I don't think Vox will go along with it as things stand now. Almost sure of it. The only way I see the Diplomatic victory working is if we offer to abide by a coin-flip to see who gets voted for. Since RP are in our pocket, it would give us a 50/50 shot at winning. Vox gets a 50/50 shot too. To make sure RP goes along with it we might want to include them too though. We might negotiate the odds a bit given "power", as Vox has no chance to win right now, but we do have a decent one. Or have it 33/33/33 with RP's win going to us.
                              Fine by me, this flip coin idea. It's certainly one thing to put in the open. One problem though: RP nor Vox are going to build the UN, only we can. So they can only vote for us.

                              Don't get me wrong, I don't think this UN thing has much chance of winning, but at least it has a chance. SS victory is going to be even harder, and winning military I don't we can do. Not because of lack of skill or resources, but simply that no team can stay at war for another year. It's too exhausting.

                              "All the current and past inhabitants of Estonia/Stormia (aside from Lux ) ban together to make the little continent big."

                              Yeah, sort of like that. It's a bit utopian, but I'm sure Beta could sell it to the public.

                              I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Vox win if we lost the coin flip. They were the only ones given a worse start than we were (though Lux's start wasn't too good, but a good share of that was diplomatic rather than RNG).


                              Vox is a valuable ally though, and we should try to build a closer friendship in any case. They get a free Tech when entering the Modern Era.

                              Excellent point. No matter how things go, maybe this is something to start talking them about. We can bring them into the modern age without much problems. We could even provide them with computers (they will like that). In exchange we have the chance to win whatever they get as a free tech?

                              We may be in position to help Vox reclaim their homeland (combination FP build and Palace jump), and have RP still gain with more and better land on Lego. That would probably help us in Vox's eyes, but RP and GoW have to be along with it too. I think we should tentatively start these talks.


                              As long as it is not a definate proposal, I agree. We can feel them out... but let's not promise what we can't make happen...

                              DeepO

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Aeson
                                As for the Spaceship side of things, if we complete the Apollo project in EotS, would we be able to switch pre-builds through the city screen that same turn? "EotS has built the Apollo Program"->View City->Arrow keys
                                Yes, with one serious sidenote: we need 2 large prebuilds (640 shields for 2 parts needed). If we can squeeze 141 spt out of WoC (I'm thinking offshore platform, nuclear plant(do we have fresh water there? I doubt it), and palace). We can than use a 500 shield prebuild (ICBM), otherwise we need 1 wonder and the palace prebuild.

                                We can certainly get to 1 turn after discovery of last SS tech.

                                DeepO

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