Vox defeated?

[zeit]

Perhaps Lego is willing to give them more than one town, or perhaps some money to start with.

OTOH, they migt have not thought about it...

[Shiber]

Suggestion: if we want to get something for an armistice now, ask them to let us capture their 3 catapults now, promising of course that we will return them if we fail to reach an agreement (mention our code of honor, to remind them that they have reasons to believe our word).

Eli contacted me to get a few feelers on what GS would accept, and I ended up writing about half the agreement, including most of the security & reassurance clauses.
I wasn't pleased with such a long period of 18 turns for evacuation, but consider that Eli's initial demand was for 25 turns, and 18 turns is only 50% longer than the original 12 turns period that we wanted to suggest at first. But what I ended up doing was installing what might be a loophole - the scenario clause.
Now, I realize that we have some players with divine economic and planning skills here. If we can formulate a plan that would liquify Vox's population into workers and get all their cities down to 1 pop before the 18 turns is over, they will leave earlier and we will have their land and slaves from their captured cities earlier.

Engineering and Bonus Techs: I know from my discussions with Eli that Vox will absolutely not agree to giving us Engineering for free, or at least so he tells me. perhaps we should talk with Lego first, to see if they might supply us with Engineering for Vox's safe and efficient evacuation with quite a lot of pop and pikes and some immortals. As for reassurances that we will not be embargoed on the bonus techs, IMHO that should be discussed in our next chat with Lego as well.

1 city and over 20 units: they are mostly concerned with Barbarians, and they want to expand quickly by turning their workers that will join their one city into settlers. They won't have time to produce pikes to guard their settlers, their new cities and the workers that will be working their new lands if they want to expand quickly.

[Shiber]

NEWSFLASH
Beta did not receive any instructions from us in time to play Vox's turn (thanks guys... ), so he just began a withdrawal of units. He also left Vox's catapults open, but we are asked not to touch them unless we accept the proposed agreement (I suggest not touching them at all until Vox is presented with our reservations for the draft and the agreement is ratified, with or without the changes that we'll propose).
I'm going to personally apologize to Beta for not seeing that a message is sent to him in time, explaining that I was asleep and had to get up early and rush out.

[Shiber]

Oh, and Beta also sent another accepted peace proposal with D'Ville on the table, but that was a mistake. We're requested to reject this in-game proposal because they need to evacuate D'Ville first.

[Shiber]

Hi Beta,

I would like to personally apologize for not seeing that a message regarding the proposed one-turn armistice was sent to you in time. I did request my teammates to take care of it during my sleep... I don't know what happened yet (perhaps I didn't make myself clear, or perhaps nobody noticed the time, I have yet to find out), I just got back home and the first thing I'm doing after Eli told me that you did not receive an answer is writing this message to you.
I myself was unable to ensure that the message is sent because I had to go to sleep and get up early in the morning and rush out of the house (had a crazy morning schedule), and I think that we both agree that RL always comes first. But I do apologize for this mishap.

We've begun discussing Vox's proposed peace treaty, but I cannot say anything about that since I am not an official ambassador or other official representative of GS, and I don't want to step on any toes.

Best luck to us both,
Shiber.

[Aeson]

A few things: No Engineering isn't that bad. We really don't need it if we get Theology first. It also might be good, as then we have a definitive reason to go for Education while Lego goes for Invention if we start coordinating techs... It also gives us a chance to better our trade relations with ND. Let's not jump the gun anymore and make offers/feelers about things we don't have (ND!) and/or haven't confirmed. Leave tech whoring to GoW.

Cats: We don't want them if we're getting a peace treaty, until after the peace is signed. Otherwise we're paying more gold for upkeep. Free cats are good, free cats we don't have to support for a few more turns are better.

Barbs: A Pike per Settler should be more than enough against Regent/Chieftain Barbs. Throw in a few Immortals and that's all they should take in any case. Not really important for GS, but for Vox it can mean a difference of a couple hundred gold in the coming 20 turns. The rest of the units should be disbanded for shields.

Evacuation: I'm certain we can come up with a plan for a ~10 turn evacuation that will put Vox in a better position than what they've proposed (Engineering could be a hangup, although they seem on pace for a 40 turn tech so it probably won't matter). They should be building Settlers here to teleport to their new home, as they actually have production here. They could have 6-7 cities in 15 turns, paying no upkeep. In 20 turns from that point, it's probably a difference of ~500g and ~10 pop points for them to do it 'backwards' from what they've proposed.

[Shiber]

How do you suggest that Vox would teleport settlers to Lego Land?
Once they have a city in place on LL, they can teleport workers as slaves sold to Lego, but can settlers be sold too, as two workers?
Of course, they could put their workers inside a city and then gift the city to us, but that will only teleport them to The Voice, and I'm not sure how we can set Vox's new capital as their new home town in LL without conquering all of their cities on this continent.

[Aeson]

Easy. They build everything they need first.

Turn 1, Vox:

Vox gives us all the cities but The Voice. They park their units outside Miller Town (before or after gifting it to us), and disband The Voice. Now their Palace will be in the city on Lego's continent as it's their only city left.

Turn 1, GS:

We gift Miller Town back to Vox.

Turn 2, Vox:

They move the units into Miller Town, and gift it back to us.

Turn 2, GS:

We accept the city offer. Vox's units are all teleported back to their capitol on Lego's landmass.

Turn 3, Vox:

All their units are now available to do whatever with.

-------------

Sure beats the galley ride option.

[nbarclay]

I think I found a way to make a teleport work. If Vox would abandon their capital or let us take it at a time when their city on the other continent is significantly bigger from added workers, that would move their capital there. They could then pile their units in another city and give the city to us. Instant teleport. Right? Or am I missing something?

Edit: Crossposted with Aeson's having the same idea.

[vulture]

Is it necessary to do it that way? Couldn't they just give away all towns except The Voice, put all their units there, and give it away. Then their Lego-town becomes their new capital, and all their units get transported there. Or do they lose the units if they try and do it like that?

[nbarclay]

You can't give away your capital.

[Aeson]

We could cut down a turn if we got the Palace jump down.. but it would be difficult/dangerous, and cost Lego another Settler and/or a few Workers probably.

There are a couple main factors in where the Palace will jump, population of cities, and surrounding cities (as DaveMcW pointed out). Just which cities count isn't quite clear, and I don't think anyone's come up with a definitive answer yet as to the relation of pop to # cities. I'd think we'd need to make sure Vox's new city is size 6, and has another city next to it to be sure. The city they keep here would need to be at pop 1. A size 3 'Lego' city would probably work on it's own if the other city was at size 1, but it's not something I'd ask any team to risk. (and it's a risk to us too, as if it doesn't work, we have to wait even longer to try again)

[Theseus]

Nationality a factor?

[Aeson]

Might be. Like I said, I don't think there is a definitive answer out there yet. I generally go with 'the only size 3+ city' rule, but I'm sure there are cases where it won't work either. The risk isn't worth the gains IMO.

[Arrian]

I think Aeson's method is the easiest.

Shall we propose it to them?

-Arrian