Vox defeated?

[Arrian]

Oh, and are we still gonna get nationalism for free?

-Arrian

[zeit]

Oh, and are we still gonna get nationalism for free?

We weren't asking for it- just that we won't be denied of a fair trade when buying the tech.

As for Engineering and Theology- I still believe we should be compensated with at least one of these techs (preferably Theology)- If not for free, than at least with a nice discount...

I believe we should propose Vox our idea for teleportation, as it would save us and them alot of time.

[Arrian]

Engineering is what they're working on, so let's get that. We can research Theology ourselves.

I'd like to work out a discounted deal for whatever their free industrial tech is (may not be nationalism, particularly if we upgrade to 1.21). Something like we will pay them a discounted percentage of the value of the tech (in beakers) via GPT, while we promise not to sell it on - they get to broker it. The question is... what is a reasonable discount?

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

My thoughts on this (and I do not know if it's "too late" to make a difference.

Beta is the single biggest threat to this team at the moment. Beta's PR skills.

If you let him live, that will remain unchanged, and we will have more trouble from them down the line, I promise you that.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Even better, end the Voxians and co-opt Beta to our team as a "surviving voice" We could sorely use his talents, but in either case, my vote would be to crush the life out of the team.

-=Vel=-

[Harovan]

To get Theology for free was a part of the deal with Lego, IIRC.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Arrian
Engineering is what they're working on, so let's get that. We can research Theology ourselves.

But Theology is more expensive (Theo: 40, Eng: 36).

[Aeson]

Lego is offering Theology to us for free if we accept peace with Vox. So no need to research it unless we don't plan on peace with Vox.

[Arrian]

Oh, ok... I guess I'm somewhat confused by what tech is going to whom.

Engineering - ?
Theology - to us from Lego. Right, got that now.

Vel,

I hear you re: Beta. I know. Thing is, if we destroy Vox, Beta will almost assuredly get gobbled up by another team. Better to leave him with a seriously weakened Vox that is on the other side of the world, than to have him join a strong team.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Shiber
1 city and over 20 units: they are mostly concerned with Barbarians, and they want to expand quickly by turning their workers that will join their one city into settlers. They won't have time to produce pikes to guard their settlers, their new cities and the workers that will be working their new lands if they want to expand quickly.

We could offer them to escort their Voxodus with 2-3 galleys with pikes and medinfs, which then would be used to hunt barbarians, until Vox can do it themselves (and, of course, to spy a bit in Legoland). Lego would have to agree. Even though this is not very likely, it's worth a try, since Lego stated, that they have problems with barbarians. That implies, that they barely can protect themselves.

[Harovan]

Re: Beta. I think he has learned his lesson and understood by now, that he was the main obstacle for peace all the time. I doubt that he will anger us by purpose ever again. Besides, if he does, we still can silence the voice.

[Velociryx]

IMO, it's more dangerous this way. A weak Vox can grow to become a strong junior partner.

As dangerous as Beta is, do we really want him coaxing a strong Civ into launching a full on war, AND facing a revived Vox later? Almost as sure as I live and breathe, that will be the long term consequences of letting Vox go.

At least if the worst happens, we crush Vox like a beer can and Beta goes to another team....at least then we're still facing one less civ.

-=Vel=-

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
We could offer them to escort their Voxodus with 2-3 galleys with pikes and medinfs, which then would be used to hunt barbarians, until Vox can do it themselves (and, of course, to spy a bit in Legoland).

IMHO this won't work.
The real reason why Vox wants these units is because they want to salvage as much of their army as possible, to save them from rebuilding it later.
Wouldn't you?

Even though this is not very likely, it's worth a try, since Lego stated, that they have problems with barbarians. That implies, that they barely can protect themselves.

Interesting that you mention these recurring statements from Lego...
I've come to believe that they can deal with the barbarians fine on their own, they just want other teams to think that barbarians are actually a burden to Lego and forget that most of Lego's units must be elites by now and that they get lots of gold bonuses by destroying barb camps.

[vulture]

I'm with Shiber on the Lego situation. They are playing up the barbs to make it sound like they are struggling, when as we all know, barbs on Chieftain are less than a nuisance. It is very hard to lose units to them, and they are a great source of income and training. There is a chance that they didn't have enough military early on, and lost some terrain improvements and workers to bard activity, especially once the barbs got horses, but I really, really suspect it is a resource rather than a problem for them by now.

[Aeson]

The real reason why Vox wants these units is because they want to salvage as much of their army as possible, to save them from rebuilding it later.
Wouldn't you?

No, I wouldn't. If any civ decides to take them out right now, it's not going to help them to have a few more Pikes to die. Their army isn't helping them all that much against us right now...

It's going to hurt Vox in the long run to keep their army. It's going to slow down their exodus, and thus they start rebuilding later, and all the while having to pay way too much in support costs. Think of it like wandering around with your Settler at the start of the game, getting warriors from huts so that your first city is better protected.