Vox defeated?

[Harovan]

But what does it mean?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89335

[Theseus]

I don;t exactly know... I suspect they are not of a will to survive as vassals.

Abandon all cities? Gift them to other teams?

[alva]

Didn't want to say it in public, but if this is another set-up, I'm out.

I'm willing to give Beta(and the rest) the benefit of the doubt, to forget, move on and have some fun again.

But atm I'm still, uhm, cautious

PS: I wouldn't consider abondoning every city and such as 'foul-play' of course.

[DeepO]

I agree, alva... I wanted to congrat Beta (and give some other note then 'thanks for your apology'), but this might be the last stunt he pulls. They could e.g. consider razing all their cities next turn, to keep them from our hands. Personally, I don't mind that much, I'd rather see them go completely then to live on in a Lego reservation.

I will somewhat miss Beta's public announcements though, he was a genius in it, and kept us constantly at the tip of our toes. Even if it damaged us most likely more then having to spend our GA on a war that gained us little, I respect it.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Eli sent a Voxodus proposal to NYE and Nathan.
They still need to play their turn in ~12 hours and they're not sure what to do. I suggested that they withdraw their units and leave a 1-tile space between our units and theirs, but he said that in the case that the agreement will not be authorized, it will disadvantage Vox considerably in the battlefield (which was one of our reasons for not agreeing to a similar withdrawal on our part, so I can accept this).
He suggested that they will hold all of their units in place (just go over all of the units and hit space), but he wants reassurances that we will not attack them this turn. This will be a sort of a 1-turn armistice, only that unlike before, it's not going to seriously disadvantage us (I reckon that in one turn we can pull into the front a lot more reinforcements than Vox can), so let's agree to it, shall we?
For the sake of a Voxodus.

[DeepO]

Aha...

don't know about that. We should start a poll on a possible Voxodus, personally I feel too much offended for it, although perhaps we should use it as a public stunt to get better relations. I guess I would abstain, seeing as my opinion goes both ways

No matter what the exact terms will be, if we don't gain enough from it, we should proceed with the war. All the pop we let them escape with is pop we don't gain ourselves. Plus it will deny us the possibility of gaining a leader to do a better FP positioning (I agree on Arashi being about the best choice of building it peacefully, but in Vox's core would be better efficiency wise)

DeepO

[Shiber]

Damn, I have to go now (RL).
Please send Beta a notification regarding this. It's very important; even if it's a no, they need to know.
And please make it a yes, or else what would happen if they take over Inchon this turn? Either we'll have to make concessions to get it back, or they will keep it during the period of evacuation and use it to build galleys or something while we could have been producing gold and building a courthouse.
Of course if it is technically impossible for Vox to take Inchon this turn (in case we have more defenders than they have immortals) then the above argument doesn't matter much.

[zeit]

They quite possibly could take it, I think, but it would cost them dearly. Vox will not attack this turn, as they have said, otherwise they shoot themselves in the foot, by offering an armistice and breaking it at the same time...

I would yes to a Voxodus now- I think that in terms of in-game considerations, its 50-50, but this will be very beneficial, I believe, on the diplomatic front...

[Harovan]

As far as I know, the agreement contains Voxes departure to Legoland Minor, us getting Engineering and Theology (from Lego, but without right to build the Sistine) and a guarantee by Lego, that we won't be denied the free era techs of Vox (we still have to pay a reasonable price, but that's ok). It has practically the benefit, that we can stop fighting right now and full power get back to building, without needing to conquer Vox. We will get handed these territories on Voxes departure. A timetable shall be negotiated.

[zeit]

Where was the exact proposal logged?

[notyoueither]

The proposals from Vox (logged in their thread).

1) Vox will have 18 turns to fully evacuate in the most efficient way.
Short extensions are possible and negotiable, depending on the circumstances, and granted that they are presented at least three turns prior to the expiration point of the truce.

2) When the designated term of evacuation is over, Vox will hand over all of their towns that are left on Estonia to GS. However, if Vox is incapable of loading all of its units on galleys by that time, they may leave units in one tile which will be agreed upon with GS until their galleys return for additional trips, granted that the immortals leave on the first trip.

3) When leaving, Vox promises not to raze any of it's worked tiles or remaining cities.

4) Vox will not allow any landings of forces hostile to GS on it's territory during the evacuation period. Any forces already there will be asked to leave.

5) Vox units will have free passage from S. Estonia to N. Estonia, in order to be disbanded in the cities for faster production.

6) Vox will disband all it's military units, as described in point 5, except :
a) 12 defensive units - Pikemen or Spearmen.
b) 4 offensive units - Immortals or Warriors.

7) 3 Voxian Catapults will pass to GS.

8) 2 GS War Chariots will patrol Voxian territory during the evacuation. The War Chariots routes will cause minimal disturbance to Vox's evacuation effort.

9) Should Vox request GS's aid in the logistical aspect of the evacuation, such aid will be available.
If that happens, Vox agrees to provide every detail that is required to create a scenario that is an exact duplication of North Estonia (fully identical, up to the amount of food and shields stored in each city). GS will help Vox come up with a turn-by-turn plan for the most effective and efficient evacuation possible. Should GS come up with a plan to liquify the population of North Estonia up to the point where each remaining city of Vox Controli is down to 1 population point or has been abandoned with a settler before Vox's designated evacuation period is over, Vox will follow that plan and evacuate North Estonia as soon as that plan is completely carried out (that is, sooner than the amount of turns initially agreed upon).

10) The method of evacuation :
Vox's population will be transformed into workers. Vox will arrange to be given a town on another continent by a team of their choice, and will then gift their workers to that team, which, according to agreement with Vox, will return these workers to Vox's control. Therefore, galleys will only be necessary for the transportation of military units and there will be need for less galleys for Vox to evacuate themselves than if they evacuated their population via galleys as well.

[zeit]

What about Engineering, and the free Industrial tech- or is this to be arranged by Lego?

[notyoueither]

We may add our own points and negotiate, zeit.

[alva]

Don't forget to mention culture flips.

If for example Elipolis flips it is to be refused so the city returns under GS's control.
-

4) Vox will not allow any landings of forces hostile to GS on it's territory during the evacuation period. Any forces already there will be asked to leave.

What if we do get invaded? Will vox be obligated to fight on our side?

[notyoueither]

4) Vox will not allow any landings of forces hostile to GS on it's territory during the evacuation period. Any forces already there will be asked to leave.

Needs to read landings of forces other than GS on it's territory...


8) 2 GS War Chariots will patrol Voxian territory during the evacuation. The War Chariots routes will cause minimal disturbance to Vox's evacuation effort.

Is two enough? Should be WarChariots/Horsemen. Can we designate certain tiles that are ours to move in as we wish? Perhaps an ROP would assist in the verification phase.


Point 9. Anyone have time for this? Do we allow them pop rushing? Can unhappiness effects jump from a Vox city to a GS city when a rushed city disbands? This last question is very important for us especially with D'ville.