Ibero-american civilizations

[yellfromhell]

Aro,
Yes, I know about the Paraguay war: Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay united to invade Paraguay... Sounds a little surrealistic in these days ¿doesnt it?
Paraguay was a very strong country... by that time it could perfectly be called "Empire". Lets take out Uruguay from the three invaders and imagine just the enormous Brazil and Argentina needing to combat together against Paraguay... it looks so strange...
But, as you say, those times are over.
About an hypotetical unification, it would be wonderful. Unification is stablished as a goal in Uruguayian Constitution. But, you see, today we have very different situations: Argentina is struggling, Brazil is fighting for power in South America against the USA in the diplomatic scene and trying to mantain the international investors while moving to left-hand politics; Uruguay is trying to save its banks and avoid an external-debt cease of payment; in Paraguay the situation looks like that of a civil war... it seems we dont have time to look at each other.
But I never loose the hope. Thats what we loose last.
Hugs.
Yell

[yellfromhell]

Aro,
¿Have you tried 'Colonization game'? Its pretty old but its the nearest thing to the mod you`re willing to play.
There`re no Portuguese or Brazilians, but English, Spanish, French and Dutch, and you have to fight against the others and also against the many north-american indian tribes.
Hugs.
Yellfromhell

[Aro]

Yellfromhell,
You're damn right.
And I know that we killed almost ALL male populace in Paraguay. A genocide. No escuses. Despite this, I never loose the hope, too. I'm trying to educate my children in this spirit: solidarity and union, cultural respect and an open mind. My daugther speaks spanish, my band plays a lot of latino-americans tunes.
After all, could be a lot more easy to convince Firaxis about the need of a Latin-American Civ. I vote for a spanish speaker one, it's more representative. But Spain is not what we want, am I right?

Thanks for the tip, I'll look for the game in the net.
Aro

[Aro]

Thanks, Jay Bee, I found it.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I think it would be great if the nations of South America could form a system like the EU, only maybe a 'working' system.

Personally, I've always hoped for a day when all the countries of North and South America could form that kind of an economy. I really don't see any of the nations on those continents having any type of issues with one another (with the exception of US/Cuba but Fidel won't live forever - at least I don't think he will.) like Asia, Europe, of Africa tend to.

Besides, we all have similiar backgrounds and histories. All of us were once colonies and have gained independence and moved forward with control of our own national destinies.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by yellfromhell
Ghengis,
Once again: I killed nobody.

Huh? You aren't Pancho's grandson are you? If so I didn't mean to be running your grandfather into the ground, I just don't see him as the leader of the Mexican civilization.

Originally posted by yellfromhell
I may do a lot of mistakes, but that doesnt have to make you angry.

I've never been angry, I just thought Pancho was a really strange suggestion!

Originally posted by yellfromhell
Eventhough, what you say confuses me more: ¿Why does every united-statian I talk to just knows by sound the name 'Pancho Villa' and nothing about the two others? Maybe its just coincidence.

You got me there. Pancho isn't in our history books, but Santa Anna and Maximillian are considered part of American History. Honestly, though I had no idea that Mexicans viewed Pancho Villa as a great national hero/patriot.

PS: I just can't imagine playing this game and all of a sudden Pancho Villa pops up and says "Come, leader so-and-so, view the mighty Hanging Gardens I have constructed." That just seems so NOT Pancho.

[yellfromhell]

Ghengis,

I hope you wont feel touched in your patriotic feelings with what Im about to say.
I dont know if the mexicans see Pancho as a national heroe. But its also doubtfull that a russian see Catherine as their national heroe. You see: sometimes the feeling of patriotism is mixed with that of nationalism. Surely the russians would prefare a more modern leader, someone who had taken them to play in the big scenario. For many latinamerican countrys, the nearest they can be to that 'big scenario' is arguing with the biggies (say USA, UK, France, China, Japan, Spain, etc). But just argue, not fight (because latinamerican countries dont act so stupidly). For that reason, bandits or rebels sometimes have the best popularity. Why? Because, they dont have to be carefull of what they say when arguing with the biggies... they can just shoot and hide. That was the case of Pancho. That was the case of El Che. That is the case of Zapatist Guerilla, the case of the sandinist in Nicaragua, etc. All of them have and had a tremendous popularity in certain times. 'El Che', for example, is even more popular than Fidel Castro for latinamerican left-hand politics supporters. And not just for them: in my country, Uruguay, I voted for the liberal Jorge Battle, and eventhough I sympathize with Ches ideals.
All of that comes joined to the disastrous politics USA applied in past century for the Latinamerican issues, and that seems to be continuing in this new millenium.
And you should know something: the best popularity rates and the strongest unity in any country always come when you have an enemy outside. And for millons of latinamericans the US government (not the people) acts like an enemy.
I hope you can position in this side of the scene to understand the point of view Im describing you.
Hugs,
Yellfromhell

[yellfromhell]

Hi Ghengis once again,

We are joint under the same good feelings for the AFTA (Americas Free Trade Asociation) or ALCA in spanish.
But as I said to Aro, the social situation in latinamerica is extremely difficult and attention cant be distracted to that type of issues. Its difficult for a president to talk about macroeconomics when his house-neighbour is yelling for a big change on economic politics. And its even more difficult to reach complete unity of nations (that was what we were talking about with Ato), if not impossible.

Hugs
Yell

[yellfromhell]

Its a petty the one who voted for King Pedro didnt post anything (at least I believe so). It would have been interesting to discuss about his rulership and to analisys some suggestions about UUs and civ characteristics.
¿Do you all know that in Brazil exists a political party that wants the return of Monarchic type of government?
Hugs
Yellfromhell

[yellfromhell]

As the poll has been closed, it seems that Simon Bolivar is prefared by far. Fidel began well but later slowed his march (it seems he is too old ). San Martins case is surprising: just one vote (Aros one). I believe Bolivars name shadowed this austral leader, because in the facts both reached similar goals, liberated nearly the same number of countries, etc.
Now we should think about the characteristics of the latinam Civ and the UUs. ¿Does anyone have any proposal?
Hugs
Yellfromhell

[Aro]

expansionist, I hope. And maybe militaristic, too. After all, ALL of us in the continent have at least one "General Golpista" in our history books...
Err... How can we say this in english?

[Aro]

Yell,
King Pedro I of Brazil? Or Pedro II? Or, I must say, Emperor Pedro I or Pedro II... We never had a King, really. Was an "Imperador"... A little pretentious, I know, but by the time of Pedro II we used to be very nasty. Imperialistic, and so. By other hand, he builted univesities, railroads, factories, astronomic observatories, the Botanic Gardens (where I live!), even telephones! And he had a strong diplomacy. He was an warmonger and a builder, at the same time... And, due the size of the country, he had a lot of corruption, too.
BTW, we have a lot of corruption in Brazil just now. Some things never changes...

[yellfromhell]

Aro,
When I introduced the option in the poll I was thinking of Pedro II, but I didnt remember certainly the number
Sure, he was an emperor. I should have thought about that since he goberned the "Empire of Brazil", not the "Reign...".
"General Golpista" in english... humm... difficult to translate , maybe we could try inventing some vocabulary... we could translate it as "Tiredofweakcivilians" or something like that
Hugs.
Yellfromhell

[yellfromhell]

Yes, for me expansionist and militaristic its fine. A civ prone to have tons of corruption
We cant talk about marvellous scientific developments, or about any link between religion and war (eventhough Brazil and Mexico are the most catholic countries in the world).
We cant be seen as industrial civs... maybe as commercial ones (we always sell the leather to the developed countries and then buy it again when we buy italian shoes )
Hugs
Yellfromhell

[Aro]

Once again, your damn right. A commercial civ... And we can't forget: We are selling all of our strategic companies... We're selling our improvments, in other words! Well... this is quite normal, here... In a certain way, we ARE a commercial civ.
But we agree with the two caracteristics, so we need now an UU. You talked in another post about the 'gaucho'. This unit cames with an interesting concept, it deserves more reflexion. Will be a horseman, I suppose. What do you think?