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Hi,
In the original Civ3 there arent Ibero-american civilizations. I suppose Spain case has been longly discussed, but Im new here. So I want to discuss about a larger miss: the whole ibero-american society (lets say that it occupies more or less 1/6 of the worlds land mass and represents about 1/10 of the worlds population) is not represented by any Civ.
Yes, I know what you`re thinking about: the Aztecs. They are not really a Ibero-american civ, but an american civ. I mean: the original owners of the American territory are well represented (by the Aztecs and the Iroquais) and thats why I dont want to discuss about the Incas, the Mayas, the Sioux, etc. I want to center the discussion in those who invaded territories or in post-colonization civs. Therefore we could talk about Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Cuba, or even about symbolical groups leaded by Simón Bolivar or San Martin.
But, its not just a matter of representation (in fact, Firaxis does what it wants). We have to justify with heavy arguments why they should include formally a post-colonial ibero-american civ. Here we go:
SPAIN: this case is ridiculous. A Civ that once owned 1/5 of the worlds land mass, and that had colonys in every continent (South América, North America, Europe, Africa -it still has Canarias, Mérida and Ceuta - and Asia - it had the Phillipines -). I dont want to keep talking about this because I believe the error is too big and notorious. Its impossible to understand why this civ has no representation when it always had since 'Colonization game'.
PORTUGAL: another enormous Civ. Also with colonies all around the world (except North America and Oceania). There`s no need to waste words trying to justify its inclussion.
BRAZIL: the size of the country shows its importance by itself. For those who like history, I can tell you that they even had a King, and that its original name was 'The Empire of Brazil'. We are talking about 200 millon people, and the only contemporary example of big planned colonization - the capital, Brazilia, was built in the middle of the jungle in order to decentralize power, and was designed as a futurist city -). They invaded my country several times - Uruguay -, also Paraguay, Bolivia, etc.
CUBA: its the only occidental civ that dares to trully argue with USA - I suppose its not necessary to explain what this means -. Although its an extremelly poor country -economically- it has one of the best education systems and everyone has access to their best physitians. They have a world wide known scientific research history - f.e. they discovered a vaccine for meningitis B -. They have a charismatic leader - thats out of question - that generates enemies or friends every time he speaks, and that directly supported most of the guerrillas in South America during the 60s - many of them with 'Che' Guevara fighting in the field -. Lets not talk about if you like or not the man, the system or anyelse. Lets talk about facts.
MEXICO: I believe they were in war with the US about 3 times. Once they owned Texas and California, doubling their actual territory size. They have the most populated city in the world - Mexico City -. A mexican - Pancho Villa - was the only man that invaded the continental territory of USA. Today they are the 8th economy in the world. I believe they should have less chances in becoming a formal Civ3 civ because they are somehow represented by the Aztecs.
ARGENTINA: They were also involved in many, many wars - with Chile, Paraguay, etc -. They recently dare to war with England - 1982 -, and that means war with the 3rd most powerfull country at that time. Its true, war lasted only months and theres nothing to be proud about it, but remember we are talking about facts, not about good and evil.
We can also suppose that 'spanish' South America as a Civ, lead by Simon Bolivar or by José San Martin. Together they liberated 7 countries from the Spanish monarchy, and they inspired many other revolutions, as well as the Americanist spirit. Really, there are not enough differences between South-American spanish speaking countries to dismiss the possibility of considering a Hispano-american Civ.
Well, if you want, lets talk about all this. I hope I didnt bother you too much with the lenght of this message.
Thanks
Yellfromhell
In the original Civ3 there arent Ibero-american civilizations. I suppose Spain case has been longly discussed, but Im new here. So I want to discuss about a larger miss: the whole ibero-american society (lets say that it occupies more or less 1/6 of the worlds land mass and represents about 1/10 of the worlds population) is not represented by any Civ.
Yes, I know what you`re thinking about: the Aztecs. They are not really a Ibero-american civ, but an american civ. I mean: the original owners of the American territory are well represented (by the Aztecs and the Iroquais) and thats why I dont want to discuss about the Incas, the Mayas, the Sioux, etc. I want to center the discussion in those who invaded territories or in post-colonization civs. Therefore we could talk about Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Cuba, or even about symbolical groups leaded by Simón Bolivar or San Martin.
But, its not just a matter of representation (in fact, Firaxis does what it wants). We have to justify with heavy arguments why they should include formally a post-colonial ibero-american civ. Here we go:
SPAIN: this case is ridiculous. A Civ that once owned 1/5 of the worlds land mass, and that had colonys in every continent (South América, North America, Europe, Africa -it still has Canarias, Mérida and Ceuta - and Asia - it had the Phillipines -). I dont want to keep talking about this because I believe the error is too big and notorious. Its impossible to understand why this civ has no representation when it always had since 'Colonization game'.
PORTUGAL: another enormous Civ. Also with colonies all around the world (except North America and Oceania). There`s no need to waste words trying to justify its inclussion.
BRAZIL: the size of the country shows its importance by itself. For those who like history, I can tell you that they even had a King, and that its original name was 'The Empire of Brazil'. We are talking about 200 millon people, and the only contemporary example of big planned colonization - the capital, Brazilia, was built in the middle of the jungle in order to decentralize power, and was designed as a futurist city -). They invaded my country several times - Uruguay -, also Paraguay, Bolivia, etc.
CUBA: its the only occidental civ that dares to trully argue with USA - I suppose its not necessary to explain what this means -. Although its an extremelly poor country -economically- it has one of the best education systems and everyone has access to their best physitians. They have a world wide known scientific research history - f.e. they discovered a vaccine for meningitis B -. They have a charismatic leader - thats out of question - that generates enemies or friends every time he speaks, and that directly supported most of the guerrillas in South America during the 60s - many of them with 'Che' Guevara fighting in the field -. Lets not talk about if you like or not the man, the system or anyelse. Lets talk about facts.
MEXICO: I believe they were in war with the US about 3 times. Once they owned Texas and California, doubling their actual territory size. They have the most populated city in the world - Mexico City -. A mexican - Pancho Villa - was the only man that invaded the continental territory of USA. Today they are the 8th economy in the world. I believe they should have less chances in becoming a formal Civ3 civ because they are somehow represented by the Aztecs.
ARGENTINA: They were also involved in many, many wars - with Chile, Paraguay, etc -. They recently dare to war with England - 1982 -, and that means war with the 3rd most powerfull country at that time. Its true, war lasted only months and theres nothing to be proud about it, but remember we are talking about facts, not about good and evil.
We can also suppose that 'spanish' South America as a Civ, lead by Simon Bolivar or by José San Martin. Together they liberated 7 countries from the Spanish monarchy, and they inspired many other revolutions, as well as the Americanist spirit. Really, there are not enough differences between South-American spanish speaking countries to dismiss the possibility of considering a Hispano-american Civ.
Well, if you want, lets talk about all this. I hope I didnt bother you too much with the lenght of this message.
Thanks
Yellfromhell
). And, of course I agree whith your complains! A Latin American civ is necessary and historically fair.
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