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  • Extra Pack Finalization Project (part 2)

    OK, here are the next 4 Civs. (That shall not mean discussion for the first part is over yet!)

    Vikings:

    Names: Vikings, the Vikings, Viking
    Ruler/Title: Knut/ King
    Leaders:
    Harald Fairhair, Leif Eriksson, Erik Bloodaxe, Harald Hardrada, Harald Bluetooth,
    Magnus
    UU: Drakkar (1/1/4; T2); replaces trireme, can go on sea squres
    CSA: Expansionist, Commercial
    Shunned/Favored Gov.: Monarchy, Democracy
    Cities:
    Trondheim
    Oslo
    Stockholm
    Copenhagen
    Reykjavik
    Uppsala
    Göteborg
    Odense
    Bergen
    Linköping
    Birka
    Sigtuna
    Roskilde
    Lejre
    Jellinge
    Haithabu
    Lund
    Jorvik
    Ribe
    Brattahlid
    Gardar
    Hvarf
    Torshavn
    Kvivik
    Sandur
    Sandavagur
    Jarlshof
    Veigsfjordur
    Vikingalo
    Hlymrekur
    Dyflinn
    Kaupang
    Jarrow
    Thingvollur
    Maeshowe
    Thingvellir
    Vedrafjord
    Fyrkat
    Kjönugard
    Holmgard
    Jomsborg
    Nonnebakken
    Lade
    Borg
    Vinland


    Turks

    Names: Turkey, the Turks, Turk
    Ruler/Title: Mehmed/Sultan
    Leaders:
    Osman, Murad, Selim, Alp Arslan, Tughril Beg, Koprulu Pasha, Sokolli Pasha, Piri Reis, Kara Mustafa, Atatürk
    UU: Janissary (3/3/2); replaces musketman; requires Saltpeter
    CSA: Militaristic, Expansionist
    Shunned/Favored Gov.: Democracy, Monarchy
    Cities:
    Istanbul
    Ankara
    Bursa
    Konya
    Iznik
    Izmit
    Aydin
    Qaraman
    Izmir
    Trabzon
    Diyarbakir
    Mardin
    Malatya
    Sivas
    Adana
    Kayseri
    Amasya
    Kutahya
    Denizli
    Aksaray
    Aksehir
    Silifke
    Antalya
    Erzincan
    Erzurum
    Kars
    Nigde
    Sinop
    Edirne
    Ayas
    Bitlis

    Phoenicians

    Names: Phoenicia, the Phoenicians, Phoenician
    Ruler/Title: Hannibal/Sufet?
    Leaders: Hiram, Hamilkar, Hasdrubal, Hanno
    UU: Quniquireme (1/2/3 [T3]); replaces trireme
    CSA: Expansionist, Commercial
    Shunned/Favored Gov.: Communism, Republic
    Cities:
    Tyre
    Byblos
    Carthago
    Sidon
    Arvad
    Gadir
    Utica
    Hadrumet
    Ugarit
    Marathus
    Tripoli
    Berytus
    Baalbek
    Zaraphath
    Ushu
    Accho
    Joppa
    Dor
    Citium/Kition
    Motya
    Panormus
    Nora
    Sulci
    Tharros
    Malaca
    Sexi
    Carmona
    Abdera
    Baria
    Eivissa
    Tingis
    Leptis
    Sabratha
    Oea
    Tacape
    Neapolis
    Zama
    Hippo Diarrhytus
    Tipasa
    Siga
    Lixus
    Mogador
    Karatepe
    Carthago Nova
    Tarshish
    Jubeil
    Ophir
    Marisa
    Shechem
    Ashdod
    Enkomi
    Curium
    Paphos
    Amathus
    Cossrya
    Lilybaeum
    Melita
    Olbia
    Caralis
    Bitia
    Ebusus
    Lucentum
    Djerba
    Thapsus
    Rachgoun
    Kerkouane
    Thasos
    Wasta
    Umm el-Amed
    Sarepta
    Palaetyrus


    Mayas

    Names: Maya, the Mayas, Mayan
    Ruler/Title: Pacal/ Bacab
    Leaders: Nachi Cocom, Cecilio Chi, Hunak Ke’el
    UU: Balam Warrior (1/2/1); replaces Warrior
    CSA: Religious, Scientific
    Shunned/Favored Gov.: Democracy, Monarchy
    Cities:
    Tikal
    Chichen Itza
    Palenque
    Mayapan
    Uxmal
    Tulum
    Yaxchilan
    Izamal
    Copan
    Bonampak
    Labna
    Seibal
    Koba
    Kaminaljuyu
    Izapa
    Uaxactun
    Qumaar Kah
    Altun Ha
    Lamanai
    Kabah
    Edzna
    Becan
    Ake
    Xcaret
    Loltun
    Tayasal
    Xpuhil
    Balankanche
    Dzibilchaltun
    Hochob
    Ekbalam
    Cozumel
    Culuba
    Iximche
    Kalakmul
    Tazumal
    Lubaantun
    Dzibilnocac
    Xunantunich
    Yaxche Xlapbak
    Ikil
    Sayil
    Xcavil de Yaxche
    Tonina
    Pok Ta Pok
    Oxkintok
    Chincultic
    Chicanna
    Chacmultun
    Yaxuna
    Nakum
    Muyil
    Axanceh
    Chinkultic
    Chacalal
    Nohmul
    Abaj Takalik
    Tohkok
    Mul Chic
    Tankah
    Kuhunlich
    Corozal
    Quelepa
    Nakbe
    Yaxha
    Topoxte
    Zaculeu
    Ulua
    Last edited by Wernazuma III; March 27, 2002, 07:33.
    "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
    "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

  • #2
    UU for vikings: drakkar

    Yes, I know, it's the same as longboat, but I think it's a better name.

    It should be a fast unit, with a good units capacity.
    "Son españoles... los que no pueden ser otra cosa" (Cánovas del Castillo)
    "España es un problema, Europa su solución" (Ortega y Gasset)
    The Spanish Civilization Site
    "Déjate llevar por la complejidad y cabalga sobre ella" - Niessuh, sabio cívico

    Comment


    • #3
      I thought more to disable the "sink in ocean" handicap for the longboats, maybe make them one point faster. Troop capacity yet seems strange to me when I take a look at a longboat (less than a trireme I'd guess).
      I've decided for "longboat" for reasons of recognition by the average player.
      "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
      "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

      Comment


      • #4
        Moving on fast Wernazuma

        Alright, some suggestions once more:

        - Vikings

        Longboat (or Drakkar - I too like that name better) is a fine UU and I think you should keep the "can cross ocean" ability (after all they did cross the ocean ) and drop the extra movement.
        And I guess you mean "shunned democracy, favored monarchy", am I right?


        - Turks

        It is my NSH opinion that Istanbul should be out - it was a Roman-Greek city under the name of Constantinoupolis (Constantinople, if you like it) and they Turks just got it by force 1100 after it's establishment.
        The Jannisary should be a musketman with higher attack rating and maybe mobility. You could make him a 3-3-2 unit or a 2-4-2. It was an early musket (or arquebuzier) unit after all.


        - Phoenicia

        Quinquinreme was an upgraded trireme (not excactly five rows of paddles, but certainly twice the capacity of carrying and more solid in a sea battle - if there was enough room to manouvre it). You can try one extra movement point, or one extra defense.

        Comment


        • #5
          Aren't the mayas the ones with Jaguar warriors?

          Comment


          • #6
            The Turkish UU should really be the spahi/sipahi, as they were not simply a military unit, but also a class, rather like Reichsrittern in the Holy Roman Empire; they were a large, centrally controlled cavalry force. The spahi/sipahi owned his horse, and was armed with bow, sword, shield, lance and mace, an dif he had an income in excess of a certain amount, he would be armour clad, too, and would also have to provide a 'cebelu', a fully armed horseman, for each three thousand akces of timar income.
            I have always felt that the Janissary was too close to the Mameluke to be truly unique, each being a slave caste of a kind.
            Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

            ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

            Comment


            • #7
              Personally I would keep Jann for the Turks and change Arabs' Mameluke, which has a very Ottoman flavour for me.

              Also, for the sake of simplicity, keep Istanbul. Yes, yes, we all wish poor old Byzantium hadn't gotten the historical shaft, but there you go. I mean Washington is founded by the Americans in 4000 BC, Istanbul can be founded by the Turks. We aren't talking about Ancient History 101 here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for all the input guys.

                El Awrence: You're absolutely right, from point of accuracy, jaguar warrior would be much better. Marquis de Sodaq proposed "Balam Warrior" (mayan for jaguar warrior) as a distinction to the aztec UU. The problem is only that creating 2 identical UUs is probably no good idea. We'll have to see; if we can manage to get 15 new UUs with all different attributes, the mayans should have their really unique unit too; if we can't avoid anyway, we should probably change it.

                Rosacrux: I meant the govs as I put it. After all, Iceland is the oldest democracy of the world and most viking states had their "althing" (=parlament). Today's scandinavian countries seem to be good as democracies too, so there goes my point.
                I will make a small poll about Drakkar/Longboat to see what people really want. The Quinquireme should not have an extra movement, the additional rows did not make it faster but much slower because the ship got so much heavier and less dynamic; I'd go for an extra defence and more capacity.

                I agree with Jason about Istanbul; thank god we don't have Byzantines, otherwise we'd have 4 candidates for Byzantion/Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul now...
                I also agree that we should rethink the Mameluk. Nevertheless we should keep it an option for it's easily recognizable as being an arab UU.
                "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just a couple of corrections/suggestions on the Vikings:

                  The city listed first in their city list should be Trondheim, not Trondhiem :-)
                  I like the list of leaders too, but for consistency perhaps Harald Hardraade should have his "last name" in English too, along with Fairhair and Bluetooth? It would translate to something like "Harshrule" or "Strictrule". If not, the correct spelling of his name is at least Hardraade, not Haardrade.


                  Looking forward to seeing this "expansion" pack, but is there any way of already adding new civs by yourself, or is there some hardcoded part that cannot be touched by the community?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Turks should have their capital at Ankara, since (IIRC) that's what it was when they were just one little state among others during the fall of Byzantine power.
                    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
                    "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      thanks peoux: very helpful.

                      Trondhiem was a typo, an embarassing one though
                      I'll make the corrections.
                      BTW: We can add new Civs. There is lamentably obviously a bug in the editor that messes up the tech tree when changing rules though, but there are people apt to make the changes (not me ).

                      Stefu: It's very difficult to decide between Istanbul and Ankara. Both have their points in favor, both have been capital for quite some time... I've decided on Istanbul, because it is more important as a city. But if there is continuing discontent about that (this seems to be a very controversial point) maybe we should make a poll on that.
                      "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                      "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A female Phoenitian leader

                        Since Hanibal is from Carthage, why not add Dido?

                        I think she is the female Leader in CIV II Tot.
                        Also she is a famous legendary leader, from Virgilius Roma Epic, the Enneid (I'm sure I've mispelled that one!).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I did not add Dido, because I think it's no good idea to add a mythical person if we have enough historical ones.
                          "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                          "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've added "Sufet" as phoenician title. Sufets in Carthage are what Consuls were in Rome.

                            I've changed Longboat to Drakkar Galley;

                            Yet open points:

                            Is king a good title for Viking rulers? Titles should if possible be in the native language of civilizations, that adds a feeling of uniqueness.
                            Is everyone happy with the Civs' UUs?

                            When that is solved, I'll start Part 3.
                            Last edited by Wernazuma III; December 4, 2001, 09:50.
                            "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                            "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is king a good title for Viking rulers?
                              Yes.

                              I like the list of leaders too, but for consistency perhaps Harald Hardraade should have his "last name" in English too, along with Fairhair and Bluetooth?
                              Actually, even though it doesn't make much sense, his "official" English name is Hardrada.
                              CSPA

                              Comment

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