Extra Pack Finalization Project (part 2)

[Stefu]

BTW, I've taken a glance at Civ abilities and noted that two civ pairs already have the same abilities. Both Vikings and Carthagians are Com-Exp and both Mongols and Turks are Mil-Exp. I think that we should strive for as little of two civs with same abilities as possible.

[Peoux]

Originally posted by Stefu
BTW, I've taken a glance at Civ abilities and noted that two civ pairs already have the same abilities. Both Vikings and Carthagians are Com-Exp and both Mongols and Turks are Mil-Exp. I think that we should strive for as little of two civs with same abilities as possible.

Well: Consider that there are only 15 possible combinations of Civ abilities, and 16 civs included with the game, we're bound to run into "doubles", even triples. This isn't a problem really, and it's still possible to customize each civilization further by defining what the AI for each prefers to build.

[Dr. Nick]

werna, I just feel that the plumed archer is just another ruddy AoK rip off.
You could make the Jaguar warrior, but give it a different attribute to the Aztec ones. If the Aztec has defence, make the Jaguar offense, or more mobile.

About the Drakkar, just call it Drakkar, sounds much better.

[Bad Ax]

Mayans: No comments here, except to reiterate that the plumed archer is an AoK ripoff. I think the idea el Awrence had was a good one. Instead of this archer bunkum have the Balam Warrior with one less offense and one more defense point than the Jaguar Warrior.

Turks: Is everyone sure about the expansionist characteristic? While it can't be argued that the Turkish civilization didn't expand, I feel the label should be reserved for a civ that expanded to an unusual degree, which the Turks really didn't (at least not compared to other civs like England or Rome). I think perhaps commercial or scientific would be a better attribute than expansionist. As with the Arabs, I think Communism, not Democracy should be shunned, as the Turkish government of the moment is Democratic, though arguably a bit overzealous in its application of rules dividing church and state.

Vikings: My only comment here is that when I saw Magnus I immediately associated to Magnus ver Magnusson (of the World's Strongest Man competitions). Just a flashback to 2AM ESPN2.

Phoenicians: Again, I'm not sure about the Expansionist label, though if the Carthaginian civilization is included under this umbrella it's probably accurate. Also, it was my understanding (though possibly flawed) that Dido was in fact a real, pseudo-mythic person (much as Odysseus and Agammemnon were real people whose lives have been buried in myth).

[Wernazuma III]

Oh, wow, much things to comment, great!

1. I'm confused, I'll call Harald Harrararararraar simply "Hardrada", case closed.

About the CSA-pairs, mybe triples. I try to look that we don't get too many, but we shouldn't see evading pairs just as a doctrine.
If we get too many in the end, we'll discuss, which we can change.

El Awrence: The Mayan UU hurts me too, after all I'm working a little bit on precolumbian history and know it's not correct to have a plumed archer. I didn't know that it's also an AoK unit, never played that game. I only remembered that the Balam Warrior wasn't too popular in my thread. The Aztec Jaguar Warrior is simply a warrior with one additional movement point. If we make the balam warrior a 1.2.1 unit, we produce an early and cheap spearman for the mayans (spearmen would thus get obsolete too for mayans). I'm not sure, it could work. In addition, we wouldn't have to change graphics. Anyway, it's probably best to change it.


Drakkar Galley --> Drakkar

Bad Ax: I'll go in detail later, lack of time...

[Dr. Nick]

Maybe we can reconcile the archer with the warrior... make it 2.1.1 like the archer, but make it a warrior replacement... that way it's like getting the archer from the start.

And, I meant, drop the galley, sounds and looks better.

[Wernazuma III]

I dropped the Galley...


Actually I'm very happy with the defensive bonus for Mayans. After all they weren't an offensive Civ, I feel much better about the mayan UU now.

Bad Ax: I wouldn't call the Turks scientific. Maybe militaristic, commercial would be an alternative, but I think for now we should keep it. I also still favor Democracy as shunned government. I mean, the turkish democracy is no really good example how it should work, it's a mixture of military dictatorship and democracy...

I agree more on maybe removing Expansionist for the Phoenicians though I'm not sure about which alternative. Militaristic?-nah; Religious-maybe; Scientific?-not exactly; industrious-maybe
About Dido (and Odysseus): I'd say more that Odysseus is a very mythical figure, who maybe was originally based upon a historical person but myth overformed this so much that the original person can't be recognised anymore. With Dido, that's even more the case, for we have no phoenician account of her.

[molly bloom]

Some useful Viking sites:

https://www.georgetown.edu/users/buckinsj/viking.htm

https://www.greenland-guide.dk/narsaq-tourist/history.htm

https://www.dur.ac.uk/~dml0www/variagi.html

https://www.anthro.mankato.msus.edu/prehistory/vikings/vikgrn.html

https://www.dur.ac.uk/~dml0www/variagi.html

https://www.allaboutirish.com/library/history/vikings.htm

[Dr. Nick]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I dropped the Galley...

Oooops, hadn't realised.

[kIndal]

One problem with your list of Phoenician cities and Greek ones, there is two cities called "Abdera" one is in Greece and other is in Spain.

[Rosacrux]

I don't know about the hiberian Abdera but there was an Abdera in Greece, in a place called Chalkidiki - close to Thesaloniki.

It has nothing to do with Phoenicia, though. It's a genuine ancient greek city state.

[waab]

Vikings?

I have waited long for Vikings just because that I am from scandinavia so...

I like the most things of your idea BUT not the order the city was placed, Göteborg, Stockholm, Oslo is pretty new cities instead of using them in top place Birka and some older cities instead...

CSA: Expansionist, Commercial?
I am unsure if this really is correct but I think that will be good, but an other idea is Militaristisk, Commercial. I mean that the viking religion was alot about war. If you were killed in battle, your soul was transfered to Valhall (paradise).

[Wernazuma III]

About CSAs: I've decided to take them out of discussion at this point. after having cleared everything else, I'll again post all CSAs and we can look, how to evade pairs of identical CSAs etc.

Greek Abdera is actually east of Chalkidike. Spanish Abdera is in the very south of the peninsula.
I actually didn't even notice that the Phoenician list includs Abdera. It's weird that a phoenician and greek city have the same name... i guess the name is of greek origin, but i've no idea. i'll remove it from the phoenician list.

waab: just propose a new order for viking cities, then I can judge better. i guess as swedish person you know better. other people can then complain to your address if they don't like it

[kIndal]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Greek Abdera is actually east of Chalkidike. Spanish Abdera is in the very south of the peninsula.
I actually didn't even notice that the Phoenician list includs Abdera. It's weird that a phoenician and greek city have the same name... i guess the name is of greek origin, but i've no idea. i'll remove it from the phoenician list.

Spanish Abdera is actual town called Adra (Almeria, South East Spain).

The Spanish one is older than greeks, the spanish was founded in VIIIBC and greek in 550BC so...

[waab]

viking city list

Okay I will post my suggestion on monday hasn't time over the weekend to much to do...