Delenda sunt...

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by EOL
No huts. I usually use 2.42 but have FW as well.
EOL

Same here. In fact I have installed FW but not played at all yet ( too busy with the Rome and ww2 scenarios).
Sure we find some interesting challenges there, once we get started (the SGs seem to think that 'Napoleon' is worth having a look).

[DaveV]

Originally posted by La Fayette

Therefore, Dave, EOL, Marquis, please let us know whether you tipped huts or not

No huts. It's way too easy with huts, since the AI makes no effort to tip them.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by DaveV
No huts. It's way too easy with huts, since the AI makes no effort to tip them.

But, if I state that the challenge is without huts, then our friend Marquis gets frustrated and our friend Xin Yu never tells us what happened to the Celts.
Therefore, I state it again: there are now 2 challenges: Rome scenario without huts (7 civs) + Rome scenario with huts (also 7 civs).
This means 14 possible record holders
(perhaps I should write 13 left, since DaveV's result with the Romans... without huts... won't be easy to beat)

[DaveV]

Originally posted by La Fayette
... since DaveV's result with the Romans... without huts... won't be easy to beat

If there's one thing I've learned during my time here, it's that no record is ever unbeatable.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

I'm not so sure the huts make a huge difference, as they usually come up with gold, units, barbarians, or nothing. The occasional tech is only sometimes helpful (and might actually slow research down), and the occasional advanced tribe more of a nusiance than a help.

I would find it frustrating to limit this to a hutless challenge. Huts are in my version of civ, and the AI does tip them if I don't first. They get the same goodies the human does. Any advanced tribe is one more city I need to sack. Any unit is one more I need to kill. In a race against the clock, this makes a difference.

I'm not a deity level master, and I simply don't put chess-like thought into micromanaging every city/unit every turn.

[La Fayette]

Rome scenario

Tiny Hall of Fame
(without huts)

Romans (43 years): DaveV
Seleucids (72 years): La Fayette
Carthaginians (74 years): EOL
Macedonians (89 years): La Fayette

Tiny Hall of Fame #2
(tipping huts)

Seleucids (74 years): Marquis de Sodaq
Independent (92 years): Marquis de Sodaq
Ptolemaic (96 years): Marquis de Sodaq
Celts (99 years): Marquis de Sodaq

It is NOT asked to conquer all cities.
What is required is taking (or destroying) all 21 objectives.

[La Fayette]

I had a try at Seleucids with hut tipping, for the sake of comparison:
All objectives Seleucids in 210.
This means 68 years (4 years shorter than my previous game without tipping huts).
Sorry, Marquis. It seems that hut tipping makes the game shorter.
(but I must have another try some day, using a strategy closer to Dave's; he's still 25 years ahead of this ).
...with the Romans though

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by La Fayette
This means 68 years (4 years shorter than my previous game without tipping huts).
Sorry, Marquis. It seems that hut tipping makes the game shorter.

Perhaps, but did you also take the time to build banks and colluseums? An old habit of mine I was unable to break, even with the clock ticking. Six years difference doesn't strike me as very significant, you might just be a slightly better player, too. Regardless, congratulations!

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
By the way La Fayette - now that you have UCC you might take a look at the 'Napoleon' scenario that comes with Fantastic Worlds. We looked at it very briefly last night - seems kewl ...

March 1804. Napoleon enters Baghdad.
All objective cities are now French...
and 'la Marseillaise' can be heard from Dublin to Cairo.


(but I go on wondering what 'kewl' means; my thick dictionary stays silent)

[Scouse Gits]

kewl -- a deliberate mis-spelling of 'cool' in an attempt o capture the preferred pronunciation of the young - my apologies.

Congratulations - we haven't got that far yet - what do you think of the scenario?

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
- what do you think of the scenario?

...kewl
There are 26 objective cities in that scenario, and that is fine for me.
I don't know if there are many people who are fond of micromanaging 100 cities or so, and spending more than 1 hour/turn. Personally, I am not (and in fact I have not played any big map for quite a long time, ...except ww2 because of the challenge ).
The map in the Napoleon scenario looks quite big, but less than 1/2 of it is really active, hence no boring endgame (34 turns needed to conquer all 26 objectives, and about 15 minutes/turn:
it was almost an 8 hours game).
I could not resist building strong trade routes and a navy (especially since Admiral Nelson had a very powerful batttleship (defence = 8!), but he commited suicide quite soon, attacking the mighty coastal fortress that I had been wary enough to build in Alexandria).
If I play it again, I shall make it shorter by using a more 'Davelike' {TM} strategy (aggressive from the very start).

[DrFell]

Gave this a go this afternoon using Romans, this time using capture capitals + bribe cities method (thanks Xin), and completed it by 238 BC (40 turns). Could've been done faster too, if it wasnt for my clumsiness (didnt realise Raphia was an objective, then sent a diplo to bribe it and found out it was the cap, so i took a few turns building + transporting an attack force). Can't really be compared to DaveV's record, as I went for objective cities only (not a ship chain in sight though ).

I didn't bother getting elephants on this one, keeping cease fire then provoking war seemed the best way (lost a ton of units outside Alexandria though due to a sneak attack). A good strategy seems to be attacking Greece first - Pella is very easy to destroy, a couple vet legions, catapult and a diplo will do nicely. While doing that you can also send another force down to take Syracuse + Carthage. This makes all Greece Cheaply bribable. Build units in Greece and send em off to take Antioch, whilst using the army left over from the Carthage invasion to take out Alexandria. Build Cats, Legions and Diplos in Italy and send 'em up to bribe Milan and capture La Tene. Bribe the remaining objectives. Suprising how quick it can be done actually, good fun.

By the way, does anyone have the huts version they could send me? It'd be interesting to give it a go using huts and see the difference in times.

[La Fayette]

Congratulations, DrFell!
I really did not think that Dave's record would be beaten so quickly ( even with Xin Yu's advice ).
Therefore, here's the tiny Hall of Fame:

ROME SCENARIO (without huts)

Romans (40 years): DrFell
Seleucids (72 years): La Fayette
Carthaginians (74 years): EOL
Macedonians (89 years): La Fayette
( + Celts, Independent, Ptolemaic: no record without caravan rehoming yet).

ROME SCENARIO (with huts)

Seleucids (68 years): La Fayette
Independent (92 years): Marquis de Sodaq
Ptolemaic (96 years): Marquis de Sodaq
Celts (99 years): Marquis de Sodaq
( + Carthaginians, Macedonians, Romans: no record without caravan rehoming yet).

Come on guys! Dave's record is now in the History books.
All the others should be easier to beat (and if you don't feel like beating anyone, there are 6 civs left with no record registrated yet).

A game with huts, I'm not clever enough yet to send you that
Let us hope one of the SGs reads this: they are very clever at that (and very smiling and helpful too ).

[Scouse Gits]

Sir! SG reporting for duty! Sir!

Unfortunately there is no 'with huts' scenario to send - AFAIK it simply depends upon the game version you use - v2.42 has the scenario with no huts, but the one provided with MGE/UCC has huts. However, assuming that I'm wrong, I append the rome.scn that came with my MP version - and appears to have huts when played with that version -- I have not tried to open this scenario with any of my non-MP game versions so Caveat Emptor

[DrFell]

Thanks for the scenario SG1 - I didn't think it would work either, but suprisingly it loads up in FW, and it has huts too! I might play it in MGE though, due to the AI agressiveness (I have a copy of TOT converted to MGE, but lacking the scenarios). This certainly makes the Celts + Carthaginians easier to play, as Romans I think I'll send a few horses over to Spain for a steady supply of cash+techs.

La Fayette - The thing is, this record could be smashed, if someone had a little better luck and was trying a bit more carefully than me. I just loaded up the scenario, started playing then realised how fast I'd conquered Greece and Carthage, and decided what the hell, I'll go for the record . If I'd gone for total conquest it would have taken much longer, so DaveV's total conquest record remains untouched, and I'm not going to be beating it anytime soon.

Next on my list - Rome as Romans with huts