History of the World . . .

[The Capo]

Habsburg Royal Palace, around dinner time...

King Ferdinand: All of this talk, it is frustratingly dull!

Cosimo D'Medici: Yes 'tis sire, I am quite shocked myself. You know the Asians have established a very strong alliance, word comes from the Zulu that it has even made a land claim of nearly all of the Americas.

Vittoria: Speaking of which how is Leopold? Is he well?

Ferdinand: I have heard nothing of Leopold, I assume so...

Cosimo: He's a strapping lad, he'll be perfectly fine. He braved the harsh asian deserts, through Mongolia, Israel, Mali and the Zulu Nation. He'll be fine, he's got Habsburg blood, its strong.

Ferdinand: Yes it is (he smiles and looks at Vittoria, she smiles back) Well, regardless it should be fine the- (he is interrupted)

Page: Sire, I apologize for intruding upon your mealtime, but this is of the utmost importance! A message from Leopold and the Zulus sire! (he hands a scroll to a servant takes it and hands it to the king, who stands up and reads it)

Cosimo: What does it say Ferdinand?

Ferdinand: My god, Giovanni, please give these scraps to the servants.

Giovanni: But sire, there is a whole meal he-

Ferdinand: Don't ever say but to me again! When I give you an order you obey, now take the food to the cooking chambers at once! (the servant leaves alongside the page)

Cosimo: My lord?

Ferdinand: Vittoria please leave... (she slowly exits, looking at her brother Cosimo with a worried look)

Cosimo: My lord?

Ferdinand: It is this map, this is America look at it. (he hands it to Cosimo) See that, right there in the middle?

Cosimo: Are you sure the landmasses are shaped correctly, there is no way Europe is this small compared to-

Ferdinand: Its right Cosimo, god damn it! What will we do?

Cosimo: I have no idea, I am no politician...

Ferdinand: We do not need a politician Cosimo, we need a leader.

Cosimo: My lord, I have heard legends the Aus-

Ferdinand: Call upon Garibaldi, I want a House of Regents meeting as soon as is possible.

Cosimo: That could take weeks sire, I shall send the word. (He exits)

King Ferdinand looked out of his palace window, staring accross the Adriatic Sea, he pulled out his sword and looked over it, for centuries it had been passed down through the ages of Habsburgs... it was so clean and shiney, so perfect... and it was all going to change...

[Guest]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by drake on 03-15-2001 05:15 PM</font>
A letter arrives in the newly established Australian town in the new world..........

Consul Keating,

As long as you retract your plans to cut into eastern S. America, there will be peace. Shakeem welcomed your countries entry into a continent that could have very easily been "claimed" in entirety by the Zulu Nation. We even tolerate the city that you so boldly placed not far south from an established Zulu city. We can be peaceful neighbors. That is what the Zulus want. Whether we will be or not will be determined by decisions you make in the near future. I know you to be a wise man Consul. Your empire is one of legends. We trust you will make the wise choice.

Consul Shakeem
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Paul now realises the unfortunate nature of this mis-understanding.

The map now shows Shakeem's understanding of the originally verbally agreed border.
The Australian envoy in South America has been asked to attend a 'holiday' conference in Tahiti - permanently
However, Paul has sent a message appealing to the Zulu's sense of fair play and asks that the land in question be requested for Aussie settlement, perhaps in return for gold?

(BTW as an aside Civ 3 will have a bargaining table - can't wait!)



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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[drake]

You can't make it fine, just ****ing say that you can't. But don't stand us all up and waste our time. It's a real kick in the nuts.
Everyone knows who this is to.

See yall next thursday. (Hopefully)

[The Capo]

Okay last night was a pretty crappy night for this game.

I almost couldn't play, which in turn riled everyone up but when it turned out I could in fact play there was another situation, and everyone who was there and the one other guy obviously knows what the situation was.

I don't know what the situation was, and frankly I don't think it matters. If it is something you knew about at least hours in advance you could have been online in order to tell us you wouldn't have made it, if it was a spur of the moment situation we will understand.

But the thing is, Civilization is a game of waiting, especially in a game this intense where the waiting is much more unbearable. With the amount of players the wait between turns is longer, and again with the situations and issues in the game they seem more unbearable. So when they are asked to wait for a long time, which turns out to be all for naught because the one they were waiting for didn't show, it becomes very agitating.

I am quite positive all seven of us want to see the finish of the game, we have just hit the A.D. ages, we are making progress and the politics in this game are superb. What we have to do now is make sure we are all on the same page. If anyone has grievences about anything at all in this game, ANYTHING we should take this next week to make them known. This is another setback, we've had a lot in this game, with a normal group the game would have been over.

But we've got a special group here, we've got seven different types of players from four different countries, we've got a nice spread here. So far we've survived three situations, this will make four. So let's try to make this game work instaed of ruin it with secret issues, I think we should all ***** about whatever right now and get it out of our systems.

Thanks a lot.

Peace.

[drake]

The show must go on.............

[War4ever]

Without getting into details with anyone about anything or any games, i would like to apologize to this group of individuals........ its been a rough week for the most part and things have come up planned and unplanned.

Unfortunately one cannot always be considerate of his mates and this happened to be one of those occassions...... i missed civ dates with almost everyone this week and really havn't been online much at all......


Things are winding down for me and i feel that starting this next week , i will be in a better position to honor my commitments....

if this is innapropriate for anyone..... feel free to let me know and find yourselves a sub for the game on a permanent level.

Its hard to be understanding when you don't know the situations.... but i am afraid that is all i can discuss at the moment.

I can now commit to the origionally schedualed HOTW game thursdays from 5 pm - 8 pm my time.

cheers and thanks in advance.

[Guest]

Fair enough War4.
Hope you OK.
As long as you are available the very best game will include you as a player!

Looking forward to next week, my Mongol ally who is right on the border of that nasty piece of Mediter.......
Oh, it's a diplo game - then I better be diplo-bloody-matic

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[War4ever]

Thanks Deity ..... Listen though.... seriously Capo.... and the rest .. but especially Capo..... I am truly sorry...... Lets just bury it and finish out a truly great game We have all had to wait.... for far too long at different times Its a crappy thing about continuations...... more humman , more schedualing nightmares........ This is certainly a great game

[Capo di tutti Capi]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by deity on 03-16-2001 08:07 PM</font>
Looking forward to next week, my Mongol ally who is right on the border of that nasty piece of Mediter.......
Oh, it's a diplo game - then I better be diplo-bloody-matic

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Grrrr

[The Capo]

The following message arrives at the various palaces of Mongolia, China, and Australia....

Dear Sirs...

Through the Zulu embassy it has come to our attention that a member of your alliance, which we refer to as the Pacific Pact (please inform us if this moniker is incorrect), has made quite the land claim in North America, and since "situations" have deterred us from "playing" I think the time we now have to discuss this issue will suffice for some type of end result here. I believe I speak for the Mali as well when I say that land is tight in North America, and we feel that the Australians may have overstepped their realistic bounds in making this claim.

I have many issues to bring to a head as concerns this land claim as well as treaty and alliance in general. There have been past agreements made to me by nations in Asia that, if this claim comes to fruition, will have been discarded. Which I believe is unfair to me. Therefore I would like to personally, as King of the Adriatic League, ask that the sovreign nations of China, Mongolia and Australia hold an ICQ audience with me so that I may display my grievences/issues with this land claim. Thus, I ask that the Pacific Pact at least hear me out. We may hold the meeting in any Asian city that is required, I will send only one ambassador, Antonio DeNucci from Naples to attend the meeting, and he shall only represent the interests of his most Catholic majesty, King Ferdinand I of Habsburg.

Thank you for your time,
Leopold of Habsburg.

END MESSAGE.

[Guest]

Paul will discuss with his allies first using the following map as a basis for discussion...



Don't call us Capo, we'll call you

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[The Capo]

A message from his most Catholic Majesty; Ferdinand I of Habsburg...

In response to the map and corresponding claims posted I say this: First I continue to disregard any claims made by Australia to any land in the Americas, and obviously I disregard any claim made BY Australia FOR another nation. To think I would accept a land claim made by Australia in the name of the Mali is ridiculous, or a land claim made by China in the name of Israel for example.

Further I disregard any land claims that are made at all. If I am in a position to respect a specific claim I myself will do so. For instance of the Zulu wish to hold all of South America within their realm, they shall not only ask Australia to agree to this claim, but every nation, as every nation is sovreign the will of one should not be projected upon the consent of another. If any mapping out of the New World shall occur, as has been done in the leisure time of the honorable Consul Keating, a congress should be established of all nations in the world to establish such a map. I hardly believe it is the will of every nation on the planet for Australia to carve up the New World in such a manner.

Further, I do respect the honorable portions of his designs. I.E. the land grant towards China, it is quite an honorable tact. However, though I do see the plight of China as a horrible one, I don't think it gives Australia any more right than it does say the Mali, Israelites or the Adriatic League to carve up a fast claim in the name of China. The original map created by Australia which did lineate the land claim of only the Australian Republic was acceptable if only for suggestive purposes. As I have said before, for Australia to think it could simply claim whatever land it wished and expect every nation on the planet to agree to it without problems was quite ridiculous. Possibly Australia's nation, which is an Isle unto itself with no foreign aggressors or any chance of them without a vast naval force, has given Australia some false impressions as far as international politics goes?

In reality if a stunt of this nature was pulled in volatile Africa, or even more volatile central Asia, a war or advanced aggression would have been the result. I believe with every fiber of my being that Australia is attempting to further its own Alliance, which (as far as Adriatic intelligence currently is aware) consists of the nations of Mongolia, China and Australia. They are attempting to do this at the sacrifice of the power of the Adriatic States, the Mali, the Israelites, and the Zulu Nation. For any nation to simply draw out borders in two continents that they have no full control over is ridiculous. The Australians have CLEARLY forgotten the states of Israel and the Adriatic League when creating these land grants, I believe it is unfair for this to occur.

I believe I speak for the Mediterranean Pact when I denounce these land claims/grants, however the Wise Dimbleby of Israel is free to offer his own opinion into these matters. Before anything further officially occurs, I believe that a summitt of all nations is in order, I would like to discover the opinions of China and Mongolia (who are mysteriously silent) and the opinions of the Mali, the Zulu and my ally Israel before I agree to any sort of land claims or grants by any nation whatsoever.

In closing I would like to say that I am the King of a sovreign nation. The Adriatic League, I am quite sure my sentiment is shared with every leader on this planet when I say that I am dead-set against any nation taking advantage of me or my people. I am fully prepared to fight any nation that would purposely slight my people, and would take advantage of them in any adverse way. If for any leader among us this does not ring true I doubt your abilities and credulance as a leader. However if you are aware that these are qualities of all good leaders, than you will understand my points and my arguments, and you will entertain an international meeting on this subject. CLEARLY this situation could lead to a world war, and that is something that I want to avoid.

-Ferdinand of Habsburg.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by The Capo (edited March 19, 2001).]</font>

[Mr Dimbleby]

I find it odd that the Aussie et al are making land claims in North America, when the Zulus and the Adriatic are the only ones who actually have units in North America. Claiming land is all fine and dandy, but it's pointless someone else settles it before you have the tech and units to get there.

Israel herby claims all of North America, even though we have no tiremes and have not discover navigation yet.

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Thousands of monkeys are creating havoc in the corridors of power, barging into government offices, stealing food, threatening bureaucrats, and even ripping apart valuable documents.

Hey! That dried vomit under the couch looks like a horny toad.

[Prometheus]

A message from the Special Committee on New China Affairs:

SOUTH AMERICA

It is the opinion of this committee appointed by the Great Republic of China that there is no need for Chinese interference in this area of the world, the Great Republic of Australia and the Great Republic of the Zulu’s have reached an agreement on the division of the land in South America and each are believed to be in a position to enforce there claims there. As it is believed that no other power has a position in the territory of South America. This Committee endorsees with the will of the Senate the land agreement reached between the Zulu’s and the Australians is now recognized by the Republic of China and will respect the territories claimed by the Republic of Australia and the Zulu Republic in the sphere of South America.


OTHER LANDS

It is the opinion of this Committee that while each country could expand as fast as it could into the New World that it would eventually lead to War as the Adriatic Emperor pointed out. And that while the Australian Map is a start in the guide to peacefully there are some changes that need to be made. As the Emperor of the Adriatic’s pointed out neither they nor the Israeli people were on the Map. However the Israeli government is wrong when they say “the Zulus and the Adriatic are the only ones who actually have units in North America” Both the Chinese Government and the Mongols have forces and even cities in North America and our reading of Foreign Newspapers indicates that the Mali are also present.

THE CHINESE PROPOSAL




Now we are not saying that this Proposal is set in stone, obviously the Mali and the Adriatic’s need to discuss there division of there territory and I am sure each government has its complaints but this process will only be completed if each and every country tells the others it’s territorial ambitions. The Chinese are happy with the amount of land granted to them by the Australian proposal.

China only asks that all other countries recognize the Chinese Claim.


&lt;font size=1 face=Arial color=444444&gt;[This message has been edited by Prometheus (edited March 19, 2001).]&lt;/font&gt;
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Prometheus (edited March 19, 2001).]</font>

[Guest]

Paul wishes to point out that Australia only presented the 'proposal' as a 'suggestion' for discussion.

Why is there all this talk of war and fighting?

Diplomats who speak in this way reveal what is foremost in their minds.

Australia is in a position to very quickly settle the land it has proposed as Aussie colonies. So, rather than just going ahead with it, Paul mapped out the plan for all the world to see and discuss. We are not just blandly claiming something but clearly stating our plans to avoid conflict!

Although praising of the Chinese proposal, America can not just be carved up on the basis of a fair and even divide for all nations on Earth, yet ignoring the original starts for all civs - which was clearly not a fair and even distribution of good land and resources.

Firstly, America can only be settled by those with the means;
and secondly by those with the greatest need, taking into account the above argument of eneven starts.

Paul will discuss the situation with his allies ASAP and is delighted to discuss all these matters with those nations the Aussies have made contact with (bearing in mind we have Marco's)

----

PS Deity thinks it's absurd to widen this out from the realism of the game by just including all of us in an icq hook up! I told Capo I'd do that but it's not realistic in terms of game play.
I suggest Aussies can have a hook up with those civs we have made contact with, ie Mongols, Chinese, Mali and Zulus.
As we make contact in the game we can dvelop the dialog.

We can't just have a once and for all icq hook up that settles the American issue. Tensions must linger.....

Gameplay

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924