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Just a question, standing the absence of the "wall softeners" (diplo/spies) has someone already made some stats regarding the casualties of crusaders against walled musketeers?
This will be ...
Go and teach the stupid AI who is "da boss" even cameless....
googol... this is a number!
"Silence Ming. I will let you know when I feel you are needed." - HappySunShine
"Classic Eyes...But in reality, it works the other way around." - Ming
Originally posted by Messer Niccolò
Just a question, standing the absence of the "wall softeners" (diplo/spies) has someone already made some stats regarding the casualties of crusaders against walled musketeers?
Vet crusaders vs. non-vet, walled musketeers, I'd expect to lose 3 crusaders per musketeer (it would actually be somewhat worse than this, because some defenders would be promoted to veterans).
Against vet walled musketeers, losses would be more like 5.5 vet crusaders per musketeer.
Vet walled musketeers on a river would require about 8 vet crusaders per musketeer.
The obvious conclusion: arrive before the AIs build walls, and/or before they discover gunpowder!
More power to us if we can make it work... but in a way, I'm hoping that the AI does force us to be a bit unconventional in our strategies. I've never really been an early conquest guy, except on small maps. This one is large - so sheer logistical issues may slow us down, and allow the AI to position itself defensively.
It'll be a good learning exercise for me, in any event.
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"
"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
Without bribe capacity, there's not much point in using a diplomat to explore when a horseman is cheaper and more able to defend itself - so, wander away!
Dip has no support cost, which can be important in the early game with shields at a premium. Also use Dips instead of Horsies as the camel-free Wonder-fodder 'coz they can be stored up without shield support.
Well, I'm a sucker for succession games, so sign me up already!
Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
I've never really been an early conquest guy, except on small maps. This one is large - so sheer logistical issues may slow us down, and allow the AI to position itself defensively.
It'll be a good learning exercise for me, in any event.
The logistical element in the game is one of the reasons I signed up. Being used to shipping freight from one end of the world to the other via ferry ports and ship chains - I reckoned it would be fun trying it with boat loads of heavies instead
Dave's assessment of the game is hard to dispute ... but I must put in a plug for Magellan - especially if we are in a race against the AI obtaining walls and musketeers everywhere.
Originally posted by Straybow
Dip has no support cost, which can be important in the early game with shields at a premium. Also use Dips instead of Horsies as the camel-free Wonder-fodder 'coz they can be stored up without shield support.
Two good points to consider in a normal game... in this game, though, storing diplomats would be kind of be against the spirit of the rules
IIRC...
Diplomats are allowed exclusively for the purpose of establishing embassies
It's a bit easier to justify exploring with dips as 'looking for foreign civs to embassize' than it is to justify using them as wonder building fodder
Well, I'm a sucker for succession games, so sign me up already!
Consider yourself signed up!
@SG(2) Yes, I think the logistics will be much trickier on a large map. It's not easy to ship an invasion fleet cross-world in triremes or even caravels... it would take a lot of caravels, even!
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"
"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
Anticipating my play tonight with random thoughts...
All I see in the intro posts is "large custom map." IIRC it was also noted that we're on a "large island." Clearly, we need to get off of it.
I agree that Magellan and Sun Tsu would be very beneficial.
I see that we're going for HG now. I seldom spend the shields on tempWoWs like HG and lighthouse, but it may prove worthwhile -- especially if the island is very isolated. And without camels, we may need Colossus to keep us in the early tech race...
Looks like early exploration and hut-hunting will be very important. I plan to move in that direction while prepping for the Crusader Blitzkreig to begin...
-Jrabbit waiting for work to end so he can play.
Apolyton's Grim Reaper2008, 2010 & 2011 RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms
Yeah, noticed that later, (2). I'm happy that we're happy!
I'll be impressed if we can blitz an entire large map before walls and muskets are implanted. And someone will build the GW. Still, should be able to wipe out a nearby civ or three, though.
Hey, STOYM, are dead civs going to be rebirthed in this setup?
Apolyton's Grim Reaper2008, 2010 & 2011 RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms
I can't remember if I turned off that feature or not. If not, it will certainly add to the challenge!
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"
"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
My daughter had homework, so I couldn't even get online until about 10. I wasn't in the best of shape to do this, and didn't really do much planning or evaluation before diving in. But there were no major disasters...
1000 - 975BC -- Neutral Indian ambassador knocks on the door of undefended Trade No More, demanding Map Making. We decline and sign peace treaty, then trade for Bronze Making and Masonry. They also have Mysticism, but won't part with it.
950 -- Notice we're building Settlers in every city but are nearly out of land on the home island. Adjust a bit.
925 -- Our ppl now number 400,000. Americans start Pyramids.
900 -- We discover the Wheel. Choices = Seafaring, Polytheism, Writing. After tanking for awhile, we elect to go for the Elephants.
875 -- Babylonians decide to race for Pyramids, move capitol to Ur.
850 -- American capital moves to NYC
825 -- AntiGATT finishes temple. Being surrounded by water, we start on Lighthouse.
800 -- New trireme departs Dow Plunges, in search of land and huts.
775 -- Indian capitol moves to Madras. Reinforcements arrive at Trade No More.
750 -- Village of NAFTAno is founded.
725 -- Thucydides new history book declares our civ the Most Powerful on the planet. Indians are Puny. Polytheism is ours! Writing is next...
700 -- Population hits 0.5MM. Hut south of Trade No More yields Mathematics. New island spotted. Looks like this may be an archipelago, boys.
675 -- Alien civs continue to shift their capitals. Indians join the hunt for Pyramids.
650 -- Aztecs begin Great Library.
625 -- Trireme spots somthing to SE. Land ho!
600 -- Hardy settlers found village of Freight Fright.
575 -- Gandhi demands another meeting, appears hostile, demands Polytheism. We think not, but offer to trade techs (hoping to snag Mysticism). They decline, we demand tribute, they declare WAR. Village of Silky Arrows founded on silky terrain. Hut on SE island yields NOMAD.
550 -- Rabbit-like reproductive skills take us to 600K population. Indians sneak attack. Horseman (on grass) kills our chariot, fortified on hill.
525 -- Nomad establishes city of Fishy Reseach on SE island -- 3 fish plus hidden special. Isle of Doubt settled in SW archipelago. Trade No More starts on vet elephant.
Wise men report that Writing is imminent. Munificent (and sleepy) -Jrabbit elects to leave that choice to the next leader of our great nation. Trade, Seafaring, Mysticism, Engineering, Astronomy, Construction, Warrior Code could all be available...
Said leader must also decide whether to continue to Lighthouse, or switch to Colossus or Pyramids. I also left a decent treasury to work with -- over 100 GP!
IIRC, SG[1] is now up to bat in both this game and Sticky Mouse.
Here's hoping you can find some time, you Scouser.
Last edited by -Jrabbit; November 22, 2002, 10:32.
Apolyton's Grim Reaper2008, 2010 & 2011 RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms
...
Dip has no support cost, which can be important in the early game with shields at a premium. Also use Dips instead of Horsies as the camel-free Wonder-fodder 'coz they can be stored up without shield support.
Well, I'm a sucker for succession games, so sign me up already!
-Jrabbit waiting for work to end so he can play. 
I can't remember if I turned off that feature or not. If not, it will certainly add to the challenge! 
Americans start Pyramids.
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