A NEW GOVERNMENT PROPOSAL

[conmcb25]

Comrade there are six Fronts if you do not include Armaments and the Economic Ministers:

Marshal (H Tower):
Murmansk (Yop73):
Baltic (Henrik) :
Northwest (The Anzac):
Belorussian (colwyn):
1st Ukranian (Shaka Naldur):
2nd Ukranian (Paul Hanson):
Economic (greeny):
Armaments (curtsibling):

I guess I could go along with the majority opinion on ALL Front Commanders should be on STAVKA, but I will not change my mind that non Front Commanders should be allowed to serve on STAVKA at the pleasure of the Marshall. This is the Marshalls Council of War. He is responsible for the War. If he wants a trusted advisor on that council who is not a Front Commander then that should be his call.

[PinkyGen]

Seems good. Any non-front commander can only be included if the Marshall wishes.

[conmcb25]

BTW Comrade your Russian name is quite a mouthfull: PinkyGenovich



I like it!

[Ben Kenobi]

I for one have been impressed by how quickly this game has gone compared to the Civ2DG.

Why fix what ain't broken? I like the job that our ex-marshall has done, and I'm afraid that this new system will slow things.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by obiwan18
I for one have been impressed by how quickly this game has gone compared to the Civ2DG.

Why fix what ain't broken? I like the job that our ex-marshall has done, and I'm afraid that this new system will slow things.

Simple Comrade to involve more people.

And human nature being what it is if someone has a position then they feel like they have more "loyalty" (maybe that isn't the right word) to the game. And hopefully they will keep coming around and contributing.

I dont think how the game is proceeding will change much. It just formallizes players being able to contribute there opinion. And a lot of guys will think it is cool or whatever to actually be on the Politburo.

It gives them a position, it keeps them interested, it keeps the number of people who want to do this kind of demo game engaged and interested, and hopefully we will have the community to keep doing more of these in the future.

Anyone for "Second Front" after this?

[Bossy20000]

Why a Politburo, you ask? By marx, aren't we the nation of the worker! We should hear their voice, not that of some marshals and generals! It seems to me that some people are drifting away from the glorious ideas of our comrades Marx and Lenin!

Second front sounds good to me, although I find it in some ways more difficult than Redfront. A new challenge after this thing!

[Iron Chancellor]

Second Front-eh-no economy or industrialization. Check out the "Blood Sweat and Tears" thread over in Civ2 Creation.

[Shaka Naldur]

is the normal option, which scenario will be play afterwards if not??
but let's finish this before, we'll have plenty of talking afterwards

[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by conmcb25
BTW Comrade your Russian name is quite a mouthfull: PinkyGenovich



I like it!

Indeed. It has a nice ring, but maybe I should shorten it to Pinknovich. Don't want the workers upsetting me by mispronouncing the name.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Shaka Naldur
is the normal option, which scenario will be play afterwards if not??
but let's finish this before, we'll have plenty of talking afterwards

I agree and its my fault but we probably shouldn't discuss in this thread.

But never fear comrades my future plans are already being incubated!

[Xenozod]

Well, seeing as the poll results are currently in favor of the changes and that the campaigning has already begun, I guess I will announce my decision to run for Chief of NKVD. I have some plans for it...

[The ANZAC]

I guess what I meant to say was not so much communication between STAVKA and the Politburo but interconnectedness and checks-and-balances between the two. Under the current format, front commanders have no way to prevent their dismissal or dismiss the marshal and have no power whatsoever to influence anything. Now the position of the marshal is untouchable on matters of war: whatever he says, goes, no checks. I'm not saying H Tower will abuse this but there should be some precedent. Here are my changes I want to see added before I approve this.

1. a. the marshal cannot rule indefinitely. Politburo will hold sheduled elections to determine the Marshal.
b. the marshal may be removed by popular referendum, the majority of both STAVKA and the Politburo or just a unanimous STAVKA decision.

2. Front commanders/STAVKA appointments must be confirmed by the Politburo just like the US Senate confrims cabinet officials. If the marshal wants to remove a STAVKA member, it must be approved by the Politburo.

Only with these changes will I approve fully of the new government format. Otherwise there seems to be too few checks-and-balances.

[conmcb25]

Hmmmmm, nothing personnal here OK Anzac but I am getting the impression you are really trying to preserve the power of the STAVKA.

There is a check and balance on the Marshall, he serves at the pleasure of the politburo.

The Politburo puts its trust in a Marshall who they feel will do a great job conducting the war. If it turns out he isn't or he is rashly dismissing good front commanders then the politburo will remove him.

That is his check and balance.

If the Politburo is "out to lunch" so to speak then there is nothing stopping the STAVKA from going around the Marshall to the Politburo and saying hey great leaders of the Rodina when are you going to get rid of this crappy Marshall?

I just dont think the Politburo should approve or disapprove every major decision the Marshall makes.

They can dictate in general terms the conduct of the war and occassionally demand something for political purposes but this Politburo approval of everything is bit extreme IMHO.

Why dont any of the Front Commanders want a strong Marshall? Being somewhat experienced in the Military I can honestly say I would prefer to serve a strong leader vice someone who is asking permission every time he wanst to do something.

Maybe Im missing something here. I have no experience in Demo games other this, so I can claim ignorance but I just dont get it?

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by conmcb25
Hmmmmm, nothing personnal here OK Anzac but I am getting the impression you are really trying to preserve the power of the STAVKA.

There is a check and balance on the Marshall, he serves at the pleasure of the politburo.

The Politburo puts its trust in a Marshall who they feel will do a great job conducting the war. If it turns out he isn't or he is rashly dismissing good front commanders then the politburo will remove him.

That is his check and balance.

If the Politburo is "out to lunch" so to speak then there is nothing stopping the STAVKA from going around the Marshall to the Politburo and saying hey great leaders of the Rodina when are you going to get rid of this crappy Marshall?

I just dont think the Politburo should approve or disapprove every major decision the Marshall makes.

They can dictate in general terms the conduct of the war and occassionally demand something for political purposes but this Politburo approval of everything is bit extreme IMHO.

Why dont any of the Front Commanders want a strong Marshall? Being somewhat experienced in the Military I can honestly say I would prefer to serve a strong leader vice someone who is asking permission every time he wanst to do something.

Maybe Im missing something here. I have no experience in Demo games other this, so I can claim ignorance but I just dont get it?

And you are more than welcome to vote against this if you so desire, but IMHO a vote against this is a vote against the future of this style of DEMO game. Because you will see me and a lot of the other guys who have been recently posting just disappear. Again Its just MHO but I think you will see that happen.

Edit: Sorry I meant to edit note quote but then I did say I was INFO age Challenged!

[The ANZAC]

I just dont think the Politburo should approve or disapprove every major decision the Marshall makes.

I never said that. All I said was the 2 provisions I listed in my above post.

My problem is yes, the power of STAVKA is being eroded. Before STAVKA was a strong efficient body. Now all the power it had is completely gone and given to the marshal and politburo. It seems as though the politburo has swallowed up all the authority STAVKA had. now STAVKA is nothing more than a rubber-stamping advisory committee. Not what I intended