This Thread is Now Officially Closed.

[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by conmcb25

There is no permanent penalties.

I assume Sabra is perma-banned (thats the usual way for Apoly to deal with a d/l) and after the two week ban for panag he can post here again as usual UNLESS we decide to do something about it.

You assume correctly.

El Awrence, as for party action, that will be decided if the group as whole decides to allow Panag to stay. If he is banned from the forum, then it's obviously he is out of the party. If he is allowed to stay, we must decide how seriously should we punish him. Should he be demoted, be denied party positions, or be kicked out of the party. (I am in favor of his being booted out of One Israel, but I don't want to bring the issue up unless he is going to be staying.) On my own authority, I've put him at the bottom of the party list so that unless we win six seats , he won't be appointed to anything.

Also, I would prefer to hear from Panag. I very much doubt it will change my opinion of what should be done, but the constitutionalist in me does believe he has a right to defend himself. If he decide not to send a statement to the group some how, then so be it.

Yaro, I don't see why we need to close this thread, and then wait two weeks to talk about it. Decisions do not happen overnight, and if panag comes back, then we will have to just spend time then deciding what to do. Might as well finish it up now.

It's not as though this thread delays progress in the demo-game. We discount Sabra's vote, finish the voting on the 8th, and move on, while simultaneously deciding what to do about Panag.

[Dr. Nick]

I say boot him, but if he stays, we might as well be prepared.

[Stefan Härtel]

Well, panags PM box is full. So:
Panag, if you read this: If you want to know what I wanted to say to you (it is not of hostile nature), please send me an eMail. You will find my adress in my profile. Or send me a PM. If you do not want to talk about this, I will rate this as your decision not to defend yourself, and therefore I will vote for your ban from this forum.

[conmcb25]

I say we are here to defend democracy not practice it! Especially in dealing with cheaters.

GET RID OF HIM!

[Ben Kenobi]

As much as I am appalled that Panag would try to fix a vote in the way that he has, I feel he ought to be given a chance to speak for himself, to try to explain his actions.

This is what I propose. For the two-week ban, we enjoy ourselves and get this good game rolling.

After the two-week ban, we will restrict panag to a non-voting member of this DG, where if he votes, his vote will not be counted. In this provisional period, Panag will get a chance to apologise and explain his actions to the rest of the demogamers.

I propose that this provisional period last a week.

After this provisional period, the entire forum, sans panag, will vote on whether we wish to keep him in the forum or IP ban him permanently.

This I feel is the most fair option. I welcome further commentary, on my suggestions.

I'm going to put this in my sig.

Member of the Civ2, Red Front and Exodus democracy GAMES because we all need to keep our perspective here.

[Shiber]

I for one would like to hear what Panag has to say mainly out of curiosity, but I also think that it is correct procedure to allow the defendant to say something to his defense before the verdict is carried out, no matter what crimes he is accused of and what the circumstances are.
(sorry for giving out my opinion on this matter despite the fact that I am not an active participant in this community; you can disregard it if you prefer)

[conmcb25]

You can have my vote right now:

Get rid of him!

Keeping our perspective here is just what Im doing. This is a game, I do it for enjoyment. That enjoyment is ruined by cheaters. Simple as that.

He is a cheater IMHO and I dont play with cheaters.

Jeez go somewhere else and let him prove himself. I do not want to spend the time, or take the chance he will cheat again. It just aint worth it.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
As much as I am appalled that Panag would try to fix a vote in the way that he has, I feel he ought to be given a chance to speak for himself, to try to explain his actions.

This is what I propose. For the two-week ban, we enjoy ourselves and get this good game rolling.

After the two-week ban, we will restrict panag to a non-voting member of this DG, where if he votes, his vote will not be counted. In this provisional period, Panag will get a chance to apologise and explain his actions to the rest of the demogamers.

I propose that this provisional period last a week.

After this provisional period, the entire forum, sans panag, will vote on whether we wish to keep him in the forum or IP ban him permanently.

This I feel is the most fair option. I welcome further commentary, on my suggestions.

I'm going to put this in my sig.

Member of the Civ2, Red Front and Exodus democracy GAMES because we all need to keep our perspective here.

[Stefan Härtel]

Of course, if the return of panag, or such proposal (i.e. panag doesn't return though he is invited to) will cost us other players, this is not favourable.
In general, I agree with Ben Kenobi, but considering that conmcb25 threatens to leave the game shall we move towards panag, we've got a dilemma here.
Whatever happens, conmcb25, and everyone else sharing his opinion, please wait if panag replies to the message I gave him here before making your final decision. If he does not reply to this within the next few days (say three for a rough estimate), I will vote for banning him from the Exodus forum.
I personally doubt that panag will bring anything reasonable to defend himself, but please, give him the chance.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by EmuGod
Boot the bastard. We worked for months to get this democracy forum and weeks to get this set up. He has violated the rules. Also, One Israel's tally should be reduced by 2 (not 1) since the banning of panag means he is no longer in the game and therefore he should not have the right to vote in the game at all.

Ditto

We may want to consider redoing the elections, even though Pinky and Htower DID NOT want to do this last night.

So we lose at least another week. Maybe.

Stefan , I hear you. I really Really do. But he has had his chance. And he f**cked it up.

If you guys want to give him another chance play a PBEM with him. But again, there has just been to much time put into this already and there will be too much time put into this in the future.

Sorry but I frankly dont care what he has to say. Ive had to many PBEM's ruined by cheaters. I just dont play with them!

[H Tower]

I vote no on redoing elections, I don't care if panag has 10 undiscovered DL's that he used to swing the election, let's just subtract the one we do know about and move along with the game. One term under a minority ruler won't do us too much harm.

[conmcb25]

I can go either way on the vote.

I will say though I have adult ADD and alzheimers.

So my attention span is short AND I cant remember things very well.

So moving forward with the game has merit as far as Im concerned.

[Az]

I say don't cancel the election results. We'll have another one pretty soon, right?

On return from the ban, Panag will say his word, and then we'll decide what to do about him.




*sigh*

[Arthedain]

I agree with Azazel

[Ming]

YOU PEOPLE SHOULD
BE ASHAMED OF
YOURSELVES

First... I have deleted some of the nastier crap from this thread.

Second... and more IMPORTANT... YOU DO NOT ACCUSE SOMEBODY OF CHEATING WITHOUT REAL PROOF.

THAT IS AN APOLYTON RULE

And that is what is being done here. As I told HT... There is NO way to check who voted and what they voted for. You are all ASSUMING that he did.

BUT... BEFORE YOU ACCUSE SOMEBODY ON THESE FORUMS OF CHEATING... YOU BETTER PROVIDE SOMETHING MORE THAN "I THINK SO".

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.

Get your act together folks... because this is a disgrace.
And if I see any more nasty comments made about panag... somebody is going to be toast...

THE ONLY FACT HERE is that it has been determinded that panag and Sabra are posting from the same machines... We are assuming that it is a DL... And are treating it as such. The Mods have penalized panag for his actions. AS IT SHOULD BE. He is paying the price for that now.

What I see here is an old fashion lynching or witch hunt.

SHAME ON YOU.

[Shiber]

I'm tempted to respond with a post criticizing your permissive attitude towards Panag's behavior (behind your back they call you "Lord Protector of Panag" but I don't take part in that fun).
I would write a thousand words on this matter right now if I didn't fear a ban.