Ideas for City Plans

[cavebear]

The canal idea is interesting. Do we need 2 of them, though? It would be nice to be able to take advantage of the 2 Whales and 1 Wine in a single city. That city would grow quickly and produce shields and trade.

If we build the canal between Caralis and Malaca, we should move the northernmost new city 1 square NE to gain the shield square.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Seems to me the whole point of the second city is to allow ship access from the ocean our homeland is in to the seaways spotted south of this New World. Are we sure that we can't get around it easily to the West though? And why do we need to, when what we really need is new land for cities?

If we don;t go the canal route, I would build where the settler is now (still gets a few shielded grass to itself, and otherwise it would just steal one of the fish from Caralis, which has very little good land for some time apart from those fish), and move the southern canal city one West to the unshielded grass. There's still some overlap there, but not too much. Moreover, I would build another city on the tundra slightly further east as well - that tile would then be as good as any other underneath the city, and wouldn't be a limiting factor in the city's productivity in the future.

Generally though this sort of placement looks good to me. In Civ3 we often use 'camp cities' that build basically only cheap military or (settlers) for improving terrain. When they have served their purpose and the other cities are growing, they disband to make room.

Would that be OK, or too ICS for people?

[Bloody Monk]

Blackclicking reveals the peninsula we are on continues for another eight clicks. Having a westward pointing canal, in addition to the N-S one will be useful, making a much shorter trip possible.

All the cities in the colony do not need to be able to grow to size 20. Time is running down and we don't have the coin to buy all the white goods that would entail.

Monk

[cavebear]

MWIA - The proposal calls for 2 complete canals through the land. 1 goes from Utica (requires 1 more city) and the other goes between Caralis and Malaca (requires 2 new cities). I'm questioning the need to build both of them.

[cavebear]

My suggestion is that we build the one canal through Utica and use the 2 Whale, 1 Wine spot for a productive city and grow it fast(for trade, for Xinning, etc). Meanwhile, explore for other such good sites.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by cavebear
My suggestion is that we build the one canal through Utica and use the 2 Whale, 1 Wine spot for a productive city and grow it fast(for trade, for Xinning, etc). Meanwhile, explore for other such good sites.

For trade?? For TRADE??

Here I thought we were hiding out on a landmass with two powerful civs who could, at any moment, discover our presence and drive us back into the sea. Here I thought our best hope was to try something radical, something new, a tight ball of cities with short lines of communication. Silly me.

I hope you are right. May our luck be boundless.

Monk (wonders if this is what Cassandra felt like)

[cavebear]

You wanted to send Caravans to other Civs for gold and beakers. That's what I plan to do. I didn't mean trade among ourselves. I don't understand your alarm.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by cavebear
I don't understand your alarm.

Yea, I get that. You do not understand. We have a marginal beachhead on a landmass that is the home of two AI, that when they find us, will try to drive us back into the sea; and you don't seem to be concerned with our securing the beachhead, being more interested in Perfectionist considerations.

There is no comparison between the desirability of trade from Apolytonia with its 52 trade arrows and trade from a colony city of limited size. It is unlikely that we will ever have the luxury of normal trade for the rest of this game. Only coastal cities where the camel doesn't have to stay on land overnight are trade options; and even that will be unlikely if we are at war with everyone because of injudicious contact. These guys may well have battleships patrolling their coasts by now and our dinky little boats won't stand a chance.

This game will require us ALL to be particularly creative, think outside the box, plateheads. Or so I think.

Or, perhaps it is I who does not understand. In which case, please disregard the voice crying out from the wilderness.

Monk

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, I agree. As a general rule, I would not ICS either. I just don't see any other way to, in the time remaining, get the critical mass to compete in THIS game. Perhaps you could give an outline of another path. My vision has become too myopic, I fear.

Yeah, we got to get some cities down before the AI crushes us, if for nothing else other than the fact that the AI takes one of our cities, and we can steal techs from that city.

That's the only hope I see right now, should the AI come a'knockin'. This way we can jump all the way to Rifles, which are most needed for defense.

[Bloody Monk]

Ben,

Check out the third topped thread...Game Settings.

We are not allowed to make Diplomats. Our only hope in this vein is to take an AI city from a civ that has Espionage. We can then build Spies.

To be completely accurate, we may get Espionage (or anything else) by way of a gift from some AI, for example, after an alliance. But I don't hold much hope for that.

Monk

[Ben Kenobi]

That throws off that tactic.

[cavebear]

OK, the only plan I saw involvng overlapping cities was for 2 separate canal systems. So I wasn't aware you wanted "tight-packed cities" for other reasons. Hence, my confusion.

We had discussed ocassional overlapping cities to share Specials, and I am quite happy with that. There is no reason not the build 2 more cities overlapping the one I suggested so they can share use of a Whale and the Wine. I even agree that such proximity could help them defend each other (though we have already agreed an attacked city is probably a dead city).

So, let's think one canal sysytem through Utica, one city placed among the 3 Specials, and two more cities close to that overlapping some Specials. Then we can see if there is another similar spot west of there. We can also string new cities among Caralis, Malaca, and Utica.

Meanwhile Apolytonia keeps turning out Settlers and Caravans destined for large cities of the other civs (assuming our ships aren't routinely sunk by annoyed enemy Destroyers).

Sound good? Does that balance out conflicting strategies?

[edited to correct "ships are routinely" to "ships aren't routinely"]

[Bloody Monk]

Why Build Overlapping Cities??

Never Underestimate the Benifits from Shorter Lines of Communication

We are way behind but scrambling to make some impact in this game. We don't have the luxury of time to build fully developed cities. Until we can get Fundy or Commie Gov't, our cities will not grow much. This is because we simply will not have the cash or the time to slow build the white goods (Colosseum, Cathedral, Harbor, Markets, Aquaduct) that will permit such growth. Therefore, we must build overlapping cities planning for size 5, eventually 8, that can contribute 5+ shields each.

This will accomplish several things for us. By having more closely spaced cities, we will get additional arrows from more city squares; we will need fewer roads to connect them; we can utilize more of the available tiles; but, most importantly, once the roads are in, internal lines of communication will be very efficient. If we have the time to bring this together--meaning, we aren't discovered by the neighbors--we will be able to field a hoard of attackers that can go to work.

Eventually, the core cities and connecting roads will be in place. A source of additional shields (and arrows??) then can be brought forth by mining the grass of two hidden specials.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Here is a new picture based on the current situation. Proposed city sites are in blue. The hidden specials are in red.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Here is an alternative map with two (purple) options for those two cities between Car and Mal.

Monk