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**Ben Kenobi** · July 23, 2003, 04:19

Seems like DanQ needs a visit from the 'server fairy.'

I agree with the policy of no paid admission to the site, but what about donations from those members willing to support? No strings attached, just a gift to help keep an excellent site running.

**geeslaka** · July 23, 2003, 04:37

Money is a string in and of itself.
While nearly all Apolytoners would not try to use their donations to gain some form of leverage or status, there are a few unscrupulous people who would. The mods shouldn't need to worry about whether or not a poster will stop donating if they get banned. Though if enough people are donating whether or not a single person stops could be insignificant.

**Rasbelin** · July 23, 2003, 05:42

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Time to trim the fat.

The issue isn't how many forums there is. It's a purely technical issue, so stop giving such childish advices.

**alva** · July 23, 2003, 05:44

Originally posted by geeslaka
Money is a string in and of itself.
While nearly all Apolytoners would not try to use their donations to gain some form of leverage or status, there are a few unscrupulous people who would. The mods shouldn't need to worry about whether or not a poster will stop donating if they get banned. Though if enough people are donating whether or not a single person stops could be insignificant.

If the mods wouldn't know who donated in the first place, part of this problem could be solved.

**Rasbelin** · July 23, 2003, 05:44

Originally posted by Solver
For the record, Markos and Dan have stated on several occasions that this site will never have things such as paid membership, or some paid content accessible only to "golden members" who pay, or something like that.

Rasbelin will probably confirm that I have my reasons to hate commercially-oriented gaming sites.

Tim's monkey business is completely unrelated to this, plus it's not donation or member fee based.

**asleepathewheel** · July 23, 2003, 06:24

Originally posted by Asuka
The issue isn't how many forums there is. It's a purely technical issue, so stop giving such childish advices.

Asuka-

Tell me what the problem is? I assumed it was server load, as it crashes during peak hours every week day, and that's what I've heard through the grapevine. Maybe today's maintainence will fix it, but who knows. Reducing forums would reduce traffic thus reducing server loads correct? Isn't that a way to solve the problem? And I don't understand how my advice was childish. I was pointing out parts of Apolyton that could be pared off until the server can be fixed. Apolyton obviously can't handle the stress put on it now, so I offered a solution. What you offered in return to my comment was nothing more than a cheap shot, and I think you are better than that.

**Rasbelin** · July 23, 2003, 08:11

Yes, it's the server load, server software and the scripts like vBulletin. Basically you can of course limit services by removing a few fora (you are correct with it). However (here's the point why you overestimate what can be done with that) it's only a short term solution as I'm sure ACS doesn't want to become smaller either and it would mean less active discussions. It gives very little benefit on a longer term (sure, you get some temporary relief), but that doesn't solve the fundamental issue that ACS is growing, not diminishing, so you can't start dropping off stuff. Also worth to notice is that the current situation isn't yet the same that Settler II is bad. No, it's not. Neither have I ever claimed so. The point is that it's just too overloaded as the site is too large for it. Thus more effective and longterm solutions are needed. Some temporary facelifts can actually become desctructive (i.e. the community diminishes).

**Panag** · July 23, 2003, 09:39

Originally posted by Mercator

The store is run by CafePress.com, and has absolutely nothing to do with Apolyton.

The CDA itself was outdated ever since Apolyton revived it. There are only two members left: Apolyton, and my site (Fantastic Worlds, which has since been renamed and moved to another URL,

, maybe I should let them know). They'd better either remove it, or bring attention to it again for all the fansites of all games covered by 'poly. Because now it's just a waste of space.

Still, I completely agree with you, mrmitchell, it shows the idea of the owners. And I think getting money involved in membership terms and privileges is a VERY bad idea.
Donation is good, but don't expect any special treatment in return.

hi ,

soon they shall have there own store , .....

Solver , your message is what it really makes so great , the viewpoints of Mark and Dan should be followed by many

have a nive day

**Ben Kenobi** · July 23, 2003, 10:15

If the mods wouldn't know who donated in the first place, part of this problem could be solved.

Anonymous donors? That's an interesting idea. It would alleviate the difficulties with those who use their money for leverage.

However, I have no idea how one could maintain an anonymous donor without some kind of donor pool, especially considering that cash would not be how the donations would be done.

**alva** · July 23, 2003, 10:24

Well, let's say only the owners would know who donated, nobody else.

**Snowflake** · July 23, 2003, 11:19

I don't understand. We have a public radio here (KBIA) and they have pledge drives every so often. People can pledge from $40 to $400 or even more I think and you get stuff back such as mugs with KBIA on it. They announce the names of the people who pledge through the radio and say thank you for your support. And that's it. Nobody expects any different treatment. Why couldn't Poly do that? What's the importance of who knows or not knows who donated or not?

**PLATO** · July 23, 2003, 11:27

The solution to anonymous donation is to have an independent 3rd party(probably an accountant) recieve all donations and process them. Then one check a week, month, or whatever to Markos and Dan.

**Mercator** · July 23, 2003, 11:51

I think that's going a bit far, especially since then that accountant would also have to be paid.

I don't think it needs to be anonymous, as long as Apolyton makes it clear from the start you will not gain any benefits in return.

**Harry Seldon** · July 23, 2003, 16:07

I don't mind anyone taking a free ride on my dime, as long as I can still sp-post at Poly.

**asleepathewheel** · July 23, 2003, 16:24

Originally posted by Asuka
Yes, it's the server load, server software and the scripts like vBulletin. Basically you can of course limit services by removing a few fora (you are correct with it). However (here's the point why you overestimate what can be done with that) it's only a short term solution as I'm sure ACS doesn't want to become smaller either and it would mean less active discussions. It gives very little benefit on a longer term (sure, you get some temporary relief), but that doesn't solve the fundamental issue that ACS is growing, not diminishing, so you can't start dropping off stuff. Also worth to notice is that the current situation isn't yet the same that Settler II is bad. No, it's not. Neither have I ever claimed so. The point is that it's just too overloaded as the site is too large for it. Thus more effective and longterm solutions are needed. Some temporary facelifts can actually become desctructive (i.e. the community diminishes).

ah, a reasonable post, much better than your previous response to me. Thankfully today its adequate (more or less) and hopefully the maintainence will shore it up a bit more. So what I say might be, and hopefully is, moot.

You say that shutting down forums would diminish the community, well, I would say that being offline for 5 or 6 hours a day diminishes the community. For evidence of that, just compare the conquests forum on CFC to the discussions here. We don't even have a separate forum here for it yet. (maybe no one's asked). A major draw of this site are the demo games, but they can hardly proceed when the site is down all the time. Especially the ISDG, kind of embarrassing when dealing with other websites' teams when we can't get messages on time through the poly channels and have to rendezvous at another site to have discussions. Shutting down the coverage on RoN and MoO3 and Galciv and the Offtopic (temporarily) would let this website get back to its mandate (or what I thought was its mandate) of being the top civ fansite in the world. I daresay its losing that crown to CFC.

When the money can be raised for the server and software to be upgraded, everything can be back online again. But for now at least, its not working out.

Again, hopefully these points will be moot in a few hours.

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