The Council of War

[Modo44]

Kill them quickly. There's no way to predict what a 1-turn delay can cost. It would be way to risky just to gain 2 population.

[vishniac]

I'm in favor of an ASAP invasion too.

[Zeiter]

I have a question: Considering we are running fundy, how much would you estimate it would cost the Morganites to mind control a captured base? The reason I ask is, after we have taken out the PTS and HGP, the Morganites will be crippled as far as production goes, with the drone riots and starvation and doctors, and the loss of their HQ (which will hit them hard in efficiency). It's going to be expensive for them to rush defensive units and probe teams. And then they'd need money to mind control their bases back. Thus, I would propose that, once we have taken out the PTS and HGP, we concentrate on taking out all 2-movement probe teams in the area (so that their probe striking distance will be diminshed, and then see if we can capture some bases that are more than a few moves from any stationed probe teams or offensive units. As we capture bases, our elite rovers will be repaired, and we can conceivably take out 8 units per turn and then capture bases. Even if they mind control a few of their bases back and get infiltration and techs, we will still be able to recapture those cities as long as we don't let our rovers get taken, and soon their techs and infiltration won't be of any use to them. If we do it cleverly, the Morganites will be overwhelmed, and we may be able to completely wipe them out with just our 4 elite rovers!

Am I thinking too optimistically, or is this feasible? I guess it will depend on the Morganite treasuries, their garrisons, and their production queues at the time of the invasion. As it is now, I still see a lot of undefended bases.

[Modo44]

Zeiter, I think we might have a shot. I see no harm in trying this, as long as they don't rush units to defend efficiently (I mean by killing our force). We can keep our units stacked outside of bases, so they can't probe the force itself. And all that capturing won't harm our reputation, while damaging Morgan almost as much as razing bases. Good idea.

[Snoddasmannen]

This is an interesting idea Zeiter

But I think it will be difficult to pull off. All it would take is a gatling (or even laser) rover from the Morgans to kill of one of the impact units in our stack, and then a probe team to capture the second one (unless we stack them all together).

I think they can borrow money from Lal in case they have a shortage, and remember that they are making 100 or so ecs every turn, so I think they'll have money

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
I think they can borrow money from Lal in case they have a shortage, and remember that they are making 100 or so ecs every turn, so I think they'll have money

This is precisely the point. If they have many doctors all of a sudden, and drones showing up in different places (due to losing/adding bases, everything gets mixed up), they might not be able to respond quickly. I'm not saying we could continue like this for long, but damaging them some more in a addition to destroying one of their secret projects, might be worth risking a turn or two. Of course, it depends very much on the posiotions of various Morgan units on the turn of the raid.

[sentry33]

Interesting idea.. If we go for it, we'll need to keep units 3 squares away from the bases - when its mind-controlled, all forces within base radius are converted as well

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Modo44
This is precisely the point. If they have many doctors all of a sudden, and drones showing up in different places (due to losing/adding bases, everything gets mixed up), they might not be able to respond quickly.

That's a good point. Morgania (I don't care what they want to call it ) will be in drone riots by the time they get their turn.

Originally posted by sentry33
Interesting idea.. If we go for it, we'll need to keep units 3 squares away from the bases - when its mind-controlled, all forces within base radius are converted as well

And that's a great point! We can't keep our forces 3 squares away from bases that we've captured, I dare say. So how much does it cost to mind control a size 1 base (with a wonder in it mind you) and how much could they acquire?

But anyway, say we get to a situation where we could pull this off, would it be worth being infiltrated and having some techs stolen to demolish the HGP?

[Modo44]

The possible infiltration is the only thing, that worries me here. But, if we can get two Morgan secret projects down, I'd say it's worth it. Those two bases I'd obliterate almost at all costs. The additional damage is just that - a bonus.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Googlie
As of right now we're on track for a 2160 landing and roll up to Morgan Industries.

Dare we delay it 1 turn?

The concensus seems to be to carry out the attack asap (ie, 2160)

We'll have our 2159 turn this Friday or saturday, so we'll hide in that offshore fungus patch, then move in for the kill in 2160. This should be around thwe weekend of feb 19 - 20. Do we want to do as we did with the University invasion and carry ti out live while we are chatting on the federation chat room?

For what it's worth, I don't see much downside to waiting that extra turn. Efen if Morgan rushes that plasma foil in 2159 he can't deploy it until 2160, and even then he'll just be able to move it into the fungus in Mussels Bay. we can destroy it with the GeneralTacticus to make way for the Mercury to move in and land the rovers (we might need to upgrade the GT to Missile next turn)

Thoughts?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Googlie
For what it's worth, I don't see much downside to waiting that extra turn. Efen if Morgan rushes that plasma foil in 2159 he can't deploy it until 2160, and even then he'll just be able to move it into the fungus in Mussels Bay. we can destroy it with the GeneralTacticus to make way for the Mercury to move in and land the rovers (we might need to upgrade the GT to Missile next turn)

One more turn, a few more days to think, a sudded surge of paranoia, a quick rushing of 1-2 additional units in our path (easy to do for Morgan), and we're toast. The boat isn't dangerous, but there are other possibilities - those I don't like.

[Googlie]

I've run the sim, and if we do wait an extra turn then we must upgrade the GT to missile - a commando 30% damaged cruiser will lose in a naval battle to a laser plasma foil every time

So if we go for an (originally planned) 2160 attack, and if we want to inflict maximum damage to the Morganites, then we could treat those 4 Rovers as potyential kamikazis and go for maximum mayhem (ie obliterate all 3 SP bases (Morgan Industries with the PTS,Morgan Polymers with the HGP and Scorpi Ski resort with the PEG). That's essentially game over for the Morganites.

To do so, we need to destroy that crawler upon first landing, then with a second rover land and destroy Mussels synthrover. Leave those 2 units then stacked there

The next then lands and proceeds to MI, and takes out the probe defense, and enters that same turn while the 4th lands and proceeds straight to MI.

We then have 2 sets of 2 stacked rovers, thus immune to mind control.

If we rest on our laurels, (ie occupying MI and controlling the PTS, then the cost to Morgan to mind control the base (with the 2 elite rovers in it) is 63 ec's, even with us running Fundy. So we don't want to do that!!

So I suggest we just found the one new base in Arcadia, and then obliterate MI, leaving the 2 rovers stacked there. Morgan has nothing that can hurt us nearby

(we can actually still move the 2 rovers outside Morgan Mussels into the base - both have 1 mp left - and that destroys that base too as it only has 1 pop after our attack)

They have nothing that can hurt us so long as we stay stacked in 2's, as they have only probe defenses in the surrounding bases. The best that they can do short term is to send Vander Eudaimonics' synthrover to Polymers to try and stall us from destroying the HGP the next turn - but that's an exercixe in futility as our attack on it takes out their probes too, so they lose that base in 2161 whatever they do.

They'll be forced to use a crawler or two to rush gatling plasma units, but by that time we can move to Scorpi and take out the PEG and possibly destroy a couple of other bases as well. Or we could withdraw to the Mercury with those first 2 landed Rovers, and hang on with the other 2, always stacked, to see what other harrassment we can do, but essentially treating those 2 as lost in the longer term

[Kassiopeia]

This suicide attack, should it succeed, will go down in ACDG history as the most crushing one ever. Maybe the Morganites *will* be inclined to discuss peace with us after it.

[Modo44]

I think, that we should raze the three vital bases if we only can, regardless of cost. Since it looks like Morgan can't really stop it - that's even better. Whether we withdraw, or keep the rampage going after the big BOOM, depends highly on reactions to the first two turns of our raid.

If Morgan starts rushing units, I think we should get out of there, leaving them to deal with it. Basically, making them pay support for units they won't lose, or use. But this is is just my personal dislike for losing any units. From a strategic point of view, a kamikaze raid would be almost as good, perhaps even better.

But, I think the continuation should depend on worlds reactions. If we can manage to keep the others calm after obliterating three bases (yeah, right...), then we should consider withdrawing. And by "withdrawing" I mean going back home, and returning with a big force prapared to capture and hold bases. Basically, we might have a shot at keeping our diplomacy useful for a while after the raid, and at least finish the tech deals. I'm afraid there won't be much talking, once we start cleaning Morgania for good.

[vishniac]

Hello! Since you said there could be a special issue of The Phalanx, I thought to write something. I can’t post it myself for my internet capabilities are reduced during the week (not to talk about the rolling tank!). So I let the official Press Officer post it himself if you find it’s good enough and do the page setup! Feel free to modify!

About the article itself, it lets the others believe that we’re confident at sea (true!) but not so willing to engage in open vendetta, the extreme option being a blocus (they’ll think we are threatening them of that, not suspecting it’s only pure disinformation!). It makes us appear less dominant.

{Googlie insert - one of the features of these forums is the ability to edit others' posts - I have taken the liberty of slightly editing this to format and correct a few typos - 99% is still original}

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAILURE OF THE MODO DOCTRINE ?

Incidents multiply in Spartan waters. Junta speaker “confident”.

These last months, news of military incidents involving Spartan vessels stunned the citizens of the Spartan Federation.

First, the discovery of our former exploratory ship SCC Hunter hidden in a fungus field a few miles away from our key naval base of Minas Tirith gave us no choice but its swift destruction. Everybody remembers how The Corporation brainwashed its crew in an act of piracy which opened a vendetta still lasting at this very minute. The lack of other offensive actions from their side, and the ongoing negotiations to return to us our men and property as well as their perceived will to conclude an immediate truce, led the Spartan population to believe that no clear and present danger was threatening our coasts in a time when the ruthless Chairman Yang unleashed his hiverian hordes against us. But hiding a naval probe in sight of one of our military bases could only have one meaning: villainy! And the Spartan right of self-defense had to prevail.

Now, we have just learned that a Corporation attack foil was found cruising in front of Climactic Research in the territorial waters of our ally, the University of Planet, who made a deal with the Spartan Federation to have its coastline guarded. The presence of that foil was a clear transgression of the Modo Doctrine, Sparta expanding naturally its protection to its submissive allies, and it had to be destroyed.

Meeting the press, the Junta speaker said:

“These are not small matters, but I am very confident in the fine men and women serving in our Armed Forces. Though these Morganite vessels tried to conceal their presence, they got caught pants down each time and our Navy performed flawlessly in removing the threat they posed. And so it will in the future too. Our naval power is unmatched by any other faction and everybody must know we are not afraid to use it to assure our survival”

However, some say the Junta doesn’t share an homogeneity of view on this affair.

Indeed, while the Spartan naval supremacy stays unquestioned, what could have been the Morganite motives? A highly-placed officer told us that their lack of respect for the 8-tile exclusion zone could mark the beginning of an arm race at sea and a harbinger of things to come, thus marking the actual failure of the Modo Doctrine itself, for what is dissuasion useful for if it doesn’t dissuade?

Well-informed sources in the planetary network explain that this aggressive Morgan attitude is caused by the dramatic situation developing these last years: an expansionist Hive is on the rampage to conquer Spartan and Gaian lands, and become Chiron’s sole superpower. These twisted minds in Morgan Industries, one can hear, seem ready to make a Faustian pact: calculating to grab short-term gains from us and fortify their own continent while letting a totalitarian regime impose its evil rule on the other part of this world.

Paranoïd ramblings or applied geopolitics? Whatever, the Spartan Legion, one of the most influential think-tanks in the Federation, has already decided which course of action they will push for: an extension of the Modo Doctrine to the Morganite coastline, instituting a de-facto no-swim zone for as long would be needed, forcing the other party either to negotiate a real truce or to renounce the utilization of the rich sea resources off its coastline.

Other voices murmured that our military would be stretched too thin by such a long-lasting action and that our current capability is, as the recent events have proven, more than enough to contain any enemy on or under the waves. Police actions are demotivating for true Spartans and our force resides in a strong defense and a fast reaction force able to protect our right to live freely without burdening social progress. Some even murmurs that any Navy enhancement could well be perceived as going beyond self-defense, posing an effective threat to the factions with which we are living in harmony.

The Junta course of action seems now to rest on a limited number of options, and first of all on the actions of the adverse party. Tough talks lie ahead but our emissaries know well their words are backed by the finest military machine ever and they’ll need it, for fear that the failure of the Modo Doctrine would mean just that - a failure!