The Council of War

[Snoddasmannen]

I see your points Modo But we don't need to have a formal peace with Morgan do we? As long as we are formally at war, they will be afraid of our attack and continue to build expensive defensive units, slowing down their growth.

We can still take opportunity attacks on Morgan targets, damaging them further, but we wouldn't mount any real proper attacks. Of course, the Morgans wouldn't know of this

[Modo44]

Signing peace makes us look good on the diplomacy side of things. Signing peace makes them less scared, and less prepared once we emerge on the other side of Yang (And I have the feeling that will be pretty quick.) Signing peace might give us some payments in return, even although this is not a strong effort.

The problem with targets of opportunity is, it only works until they get Doc:Air. After that even our experienced pilots will run into serious trouble every time they fly over the ocean. We could keep doing it, accepting the losses, but not with the current situation - Angels growing rapidly. We need to conserve our resources. I think Morgan will understand that it is in our mutual interest to end the war at the moment. I even suspect they will be ready to pay something for a guaranteed stop to the hostilities for a given time.

[sentry33]

What Modo said - once morgan gets Doc Air, we will be hard pressed to maitain 2 fronts, which will considerably slow growth - both on popboom and conquest.

Plus Morgans are hardly stroingest rival now - can't popboom, no PTS, slow growth perspectives. Gaia and Angels are much more dangerous rivals IMO. no need to waste energy on something that does not give us anything.

[Kassiopeia]

Am I to take that the Junta will agree that I will propose a cessation of hostilities to the Morganites so that peace negotiations can be initiated? I don't think we can negotiate if we keep shooting their crawlers up.

[Modo44]

I would say propose it in 3 turns after more damage has been done. For now make a first attempt to talk to them - only hinting we might be willing to stop hostilities. Later you can go and say: "Look, we are not attacking anymore. Now let us make it official."

[Kassiopeia]

Works for me.

Besides, we can always start shooting up their crawlers again if they get difficult

Who should I contact, though? Arginine? Jtsisyoda? That's the problem with no embassies. Maybe we should have a "Who's who in what faction" post stickied in the general forum, so that people have an idea on the nomenclature. Or, more appropriately, know who to contact on matters of diplomacy after a long break.

[Googlie]

The Morgan Embassy is still active - you can post there and then e-mail to a few team members to say there's a diplo message waiting

[Kassiopeia]

Done - I made a new thread and almost, but not quite, made it look like I have been reinstated in my task after a falling out of some sort. I also strongly personified the possibility of peace talks ("I have not given up on finding a peaceful solution"). Perhaps this will ease the pain. It also binds it to my person so strongly that we have an easy way out.

[sentry33]

great job Kassiopeia

I am learning a lot just by watching how you do diplomacy

[Googlie]

and has brought a reply from Argenine:

What is the significance of yourself being 'reinstated'? Does this simply mean that yourself, the Federation's expert on Morgan affairs and negotiations, has returned after a period of absence and would like to see what can be accomplished via talks or is there something I have misunderstood/misinterpreted?

maybe the "Morgan Wing" of the Junta is back in the ascendancy?

[Kassiopeia]

Hmm, it does look like arginine is buying it.

I think I'll reply something to the tune of "I am not at a liberty to discuss our internal matters, but your assessment of the situation is correct for the purposes of these negotiations. Yes, I would like to see what could be accomplished by our talks."

[Zeiter]

Hmmm, is it just me or is Vander Eudaimonics a sitting duck? I just looked at a screenshot and saw that the Morganites destroyed all roads to VE. Their reasoning is completely understandable, just doesn't this now mean that the Morganites are completely incapable of initiating probe or offensive actions against VE if we were to take it? Their only option would be an air attack, and if we have enough interceptors ready, we could repel that. What is the feasibility, in your opinion, of making VE a beach head now, and perhaps, after VE has been secured, try taking that 6-2-2 elite amphibious missle speeder over to red fungus resort and see if we can't take out the HGP?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Zeiter
Hmmm, is it just me or is Vander Eudaimonics a sitting duck?

It is. The follow up move is in question, though. If Morgan gets Doc:Air, it will be hard to move farther. Like I said in the turn planning thread, I think we still should prepare to take the base. It costs us nothing to do so, and we can always divert to Yang in 3 turns.

[vishniac]

Strategic planning for next 15 years

Hello!
Though I don't post often, I visit everyday, rest assured!

I got confused these last weeks because it seems we lack a formal decision and long-term planning. It could well be just a feeling but we should commit to a clear course of action (that events could modify, of course!).

YANG: First, I have to sayI'm very pleased we are now at truce with Yang without having taken casualties. What I can't understand is why we would re-attack him by surprise and why people here think it'd be a cake-walk.
I understand that Yang is land-connected with the others and we could use that land to attack, but WE DON'T NEED IT! (see further!). Instead, a strong Hive acts as a buffer zone, and if we get in friendship with, he'll soon initiate a war with one of the others, Good!
The Hive has the more numerous military machine and soon will get jets. Just to occupy a few cities (let alone the Monsoon Jungle), we'll need to kill dozens of units. It'll take a lot of time for very little gain, and a surprise attack will infuriate Yang. Add to that that, while we'll be glued into a deadly war, the others could then backstab Yang and take more territory. They'll profit much more! We'll do the killing, they'll do the taking!!

I think we forgot what are our strenghts.
We've got D:I and D:AP. Let's put them to good use!
We hear that "when Morgan will ger D:AP, he'll do this and that". First, he's got to get it. Then to prototype it! Then to build an air force, and finally to still have enough minerals to support it!


MORGAN
I have studied the map and it seems Morgan is much more vulnerable that posts in the forum seems to indicate. He's almost on his knees!
First:

But we don't need to have a formal peace with Morgan do we? As long as we are formally at war, they will be afraid of our attack and continue to build expensive defensive units, slowing down their growth.

(Snoddasmannen). I totally agree! All their bases are stuck building defence perimeters or all kinds of units. Why make peace? If we don't want to launch an attack, we just reposition our forces and they'll never know, still adding units to their burden.
But why make peace? The Angels are growing but don't seem to be a threat right now. Lal is none either. The Gaians have few cities and didn't react when we struck their mainland; Hell, they dîdn't even pop the 2 unity pods on their south. They are sleeping and are sure more afraid of Yang. I say we can attack Morgan and bring him where we want. Just choose: a) massive strikes leaving him crippled to agony. b) massive strikes with limited invasion (perhaps to force him to peace). c) total invasion!! Let's see the option:
--- Light option: Change Gythium Harbor to a sea colony pod, rush him with a crawler, and found a base on 42,14, just west of the bonus minerals in Buster Ocean. It'll give our jets with a range of ten a range to Morgan Transport!! 2/3 of Terrapeso! The base can be founded in 4 turns I think. Then , we send a maximum of planes and next turn: we destroy all his crawlers! Without them, he won't build anything! It's already very difficult for him, it seems! Without crawlers, I can't really see him building and supporting an air force.
---Light option plus: Arcadia University does the same and found a naval base on the other side of Terrapeso, allowing our jets to land there and to attack the other side the turn after!!
---Medium option: The light option (giving us air superiority) and we send an MAB (Marine Amphibious Brigade) to the north of Terrapeso. There are 4 bases that won't survive! They are size 1, so we won't have to worry about keeping them, and it won't be an atrocity: they'll be destroyed! Period! It's Paramiria (undefended), Morgan Interstellar (undefended), Yoda Soda (1 scout) and Morgan Mines (1 scout). With the jets and 2 rovers, we could destroy 1 base every 1-2 turns. These bases are one tile from the ocean. We can surprise landing anytime. And use the light option to supress every sensor or probe lurking. It'll be a very hard blow, even just to kill 2 small bases, as he'll have to massive military build when we continue routine air support and keep 2 rovers together. We'll keep him on tiptoe for long long turns.
---Heavy option: The Light option, of course, perhaps the medium one if we are unsure of the outcome (but we could let the northern cities grow to 2 if we want them alive! ), and now: D-Day!! It seems that, if we achieve total air support with the light option (planes can also destroy mines and forests of the bases buiding jet protiotypes when that comes), we have enough units to conquer Terrapeso! Immediately call back ourGaia TaskForce by the Hiverian Straits and make our Hive Task Force catch one or two more units in Minas Tirith or elsewhere, then sail to Terrapeso. As was said, Vander Eudaimonics is a sitting duck. By the time we invade, the naval base will be ready and we'll kill everything we see! And then, go rovers go... city after city! With all his crawlers out, I can't see him opposing much resistance! And if we can do that with our current forces, it means our cities can start building other things!

GAIANS
The Gaians seem feeble. They could be a target too! It could be a little more difficult as Gaialand is farther than Terrapeso, and we wouldn't be able to relocate forces easily in case of emergency. But what to gain? HEY! 1) We take out a human player who never liked us. 2) we gain good cities with facilities (I hope!) 3) The ability to strike Yang from South when the moment arrives. 4) For those who dream of boreholes, the builder's dream: we seize the Weather Paradigm!!!
It'll look like that: Map all coasts and even make land reconnaissance with our Gaia Task Force and its MAB! Try accesssing datalinks! Found a naval base in 69,67 (bonus minerals); such a base would have 4 gaian bases in jet range. Then relocate the bulk of our air force and bring a transport cruiser full of rovers!
I wouldn't recommand such an operation if we can't achieve separate peace with Morgan and don't want to stay at peace with Yang. But, in any case, if we don't choose to undertake a major operation next years, we can at least prepare with mapping, reco-landing (and popping the two pods, miam!) and prepare to send a naval colony pod.

Logics dictate us to use our strenghts! Doc Init gives us more naval moves and powerful ships. We don't fear much on the seas. And our aeronavale is so far unmatched. Even if no major operations are underway, we should build a few strongpoints, akin to St-Helens, Ascension Island, Aden, Gibraltar, Singapour,... in the days of the Britannic Empire. Gythium Harbor and Arcadia University (perhaps 2nuts Strand soon) would be the breeding cities for the pods.
And instead of fearing the others soon getting jets, let's use ours and our 10 years forward to eradicate at least one threat. With Morgan crushed, we wouldn't fear the Angels I bet!

Now speaks the Minister in charge of infrastructure:
AAAAAAAAARRGGHHHH!!!
You wanted a momentum strategy, you've got it! I showed we could follow it even further and be successful.
But we can also pursue it and start building an industrial basis.
11 of our 19 cities are in Stagnant Growth!! We need 2 formers in Arcadia and a small fleet of them in...Laconia (?). And then, begin with infrastructure!
I remind you that the treasury is now in deficit (-4/turn).
With the truce with Yang, Gaians forces in disarray and Morgan ready for invasion ( ), we could use the time to build facilities and emerge stronger after a few turns.
Question: why build Rec Commons in Sector Cratersouth? Next growth is in 17 turns and No raw materials!
Tegea Harbour is in dire hunger but build...a crawler!! When the city is surrounded by forests! It could use a tree farm.
Fort Liberty: why a crawler instead of a CDF to free the worker?
Arcadian cities are surrounded by forests, so they need tree farms.
Laconian ones need formers first. Then Rec Tanks and Creches and Tree farms.
If we launch Heavy Option again Morgan, we won't need to build Energy banks, just seize the PEG! Another incentive to start at once!

I'd say: rush build naval colony pods in Arcadia Univ. and Gythium Harbor, then turn to facilities and change them înto breeding cities. Change the others cities (now or at the end of their cycle of building) to formers for some and facilities for others. Use the more mineral productive (Fort Buster, Vladivostok) to build crawlers and help build facilities in other cities.

Research: how far are we from the Hunter-Seeker Algorythm? It seems it would be the best choice for our next SP. No worry to capture an enemy base, no worry for a moment against the Angels. Less burden on our production capacity.

I'd say we let fundamentalism and turn to Simple. Democracy would help popboom but -2 Support would be bad, and it wouldn't help us with Yang.

So! I let you now find the flaws in my reasoning.
In any case, I think we should now choose the strategic options for the next 15 years.
My vote would be a treaty with Yang and the Heavy option (to get cities, a land far from the others and the PEG and HGP).
I rejoice to read you.

[Modo44]

Well, we will keep clobbering Morgan anyway, as we know when his planes arrive (infiltration). And, as said, we can gain a foothold easy. This means building the sea base is not necessary at all - we can use what we capture as airfields. What worries me are land reinforcements. It seems the careful upgrade policy has left us with few units avilable, except for cash. If we can muster a quick second transport of units to follow the first one, this might be worth a try.


Two problems, though.

The biggest problem are the Angels. We have no infiltration, so we hve no good knowledge of their potential. Yes, they have few bases, but may big ones. All we know is that they are growing at the moment, and growing pretty fast.

Second is Yang himself. He still hs units on our border, and he still could backstab us. So the plan to attack the Hive might be forced upon us.