The Council of War

[Googlie]

Hmm - we need to explore every option!!

Invoking the parallel turn rule, I experimented with the Lal vendetta discussion - if we ask him to declare vendetta on Morgan, and when he asks "what's in it for me?" we reply that otherwise we will cancel our pact, he replies (below):

So let's do it next turn

[Snoddasmannen]

Ooops, sorry I missed that
I have never used that option unless I wanted to break a pact intentionally, didn't think it ever worked. Hope we can do it again next turn.

[Maniac]

This post may be in contradiction with me beating the drums of war re the Gaians yesterday, but I've grown a little concerned. I have made pessimistic estimates regarding our chances against the Morganites in the past though, so I'm probably seeing things too dark.

Still... last year for all we knew Doctrine: Air Power would only become available to the other factions in over ten years. Time enough to significantly damage the Morganites. But now the Hive switched to DAP research, and the PKs speeded up their research. The other factions could have DAP in little more than five years.

With that prospect I'm wondering, is it still possible to invade the Corporation succesfully? How can we prevent this from turning into a war of attrition, a war that we could lose. For in air wars quantity can often be more important than quality, and since the Corporation once again has a bigger economy than us...

Just some food for thought I guess. Better prepare for air wars now before it's too late.

Edit: Same counts for the Hive. It's easy to contain masses of AI land units, but air units become more difficult.

[Modo44]

Meaning, we have to clobber the Hive quickly, to make sure no nasty surprises come from them. In other words, we need a truce.

Morgan will probably not be easy to contain if they get planes, but we still can do serious damage before they do. Can we make a landing with chances of success in say 5-6 turns?

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
...............and since the Corporation once again has a bigger economy than us........

But it will be slightly smaller with the Uni's Vendetta, (Morgan was getting 10 ec's per turn from that Pact) and more so if we can persuade Lal to declare Vendetta (Morgan gets 14 per with his Pact with Lal)

Plus, our campaign of shelling his forests and mines, and bombing his crawlers and formers will surely deplete his minerals

Same counts for the Hive. It's easy to contain masses of AI land units, but air units become more difficult.

Maybe we need to change to POLICE after getting Int Int and then approach Yang for a truce, treaty, or maybe even a Pact (against the Gaians, perhaps?)

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Googlie
Maybe we need to change to POLICE after getting Int Int and then approach Yang for a truce, treaty, or maybe even a Pact (against the Gaians, perhaps?)

I was thinking about Police State + Green. But can we handle the slow growth tht comes with this setting?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Modo44
I was thinking about Police State + Green.

I agree. Without Green Police State is an economic deathwish.

But can we handle the slow growth tht comes with this setting?

We're hardly growing anyway at the moment. If we want to grow, the best way would be a popboom with creches under Democratic/Planned. But we currently don't have the required infrastructure for that.

[vishniac]

Originally posted by Maniac
We're hardly growing anyway at the moment. If we want to grow, the best way would be a popboom with creches under Democratic/Planned. But we currently don't have the required infrastructure for that.

We currently hardly have any civilian infrastructure.
I'm ashamed to post in the Democracy Game Forum, for fear they read my sig and call me the "Spartan S of S in charge of useless affairs"!

However, there are more pressing matters (though I think we shouldn't neglect facilities, even now):
I vote against moving again the Gaian Union, at least until we build the CDF, and if possible until we bring the Morganites to their knees.
I think taking one Hiverian city could be enough to get a truce from Yang. Except this and maritime patrols, we should then focus production of all new units to one goal: Invasion of Morgania.
It combines a few of good principles: simplicity, surprise, concentration of forces, attack of the most threatening enemy first.

[Snoddasmannen]

I think the issue Maniac brought up still needs to be resolved. Do we still think we have a chance to perform a quick invasion of Morgan?

Frankly, even if we rush this like crazy, and have a troops on Morgania in say 5 years, with an army of air units, we would not be safe. They would have airplanes and SAM-units in a year or so. With those they could bust our air blocks and do probe actions. We'd probably need a few Crypteia to go along. So maybe we'd need two transports, and we'd need to delay the attack several years. By this time Morgania would have a bloated air force / anti-air force, with missile and plasma units no less.

Maybe a quick land invasion of Morgania is too difficult to achieve, should we focus on some other target? .... I never liked Lal very much

[Modo44]

Snoddasmannen, I too think attacking Morgan will be difficult. But if left alone now, attacking later will be even worse, at some point becoming nearly impossible to do. Fact is, we cannot seriously compete with our economics without huge upkeep problems. I think we need to give it a try.

Since Morgan seems to be more difficult than initially suspected, I suggest we move our whole air force against the corporation, while we can (i.e. they cannot fly ). Use only land units in the area to fight off Yang, at least for now. This will have a bigger chance of preparing good ground for an invasion.

[Googlie]

I agree - we need to focus our airforce on Morgan - and prolly need to take a foothold on his continent - a base with a stout defender(s) - a Skanky or two - and loaded with Crypteia, then we bomb the hell out of him while we can - crawlers, formers, anything that moves - while we ferry a larger invasion force over there

[Snoddasmannen]

Alright, if you guys think we can hold a bridgehead on Morgania then I support it all the way But I suggest we rush those units next turn and set sail in 2163, time is money power

[Maniac]

How many units can we build and have at Morgan's door in five years?

[sentry33]

Hmm, they are building missle infantry mostly.

If they self-destruct missle unit near ours (whether airborne or not, stacked or not), all units nearby will sustain 30% dmg. Very bad cost-wise tradeoff for them, but still they can get rid of one or two of our planes if we are not careful.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Maniac
How many units can we build and have at Morgan's door in five years?

I am very hesitant to go ahead and advocate a Morgan invasion before this question is answered and discussed properly. We have one transport, so I guess the answer is 4... Which kinds?

We have an elite 6-1-1 and an elite Crypteia we can deploy from Gythium. Other than that we have two commando inf units in MT (one impact, one missile), are those any good? We'd need to scrounge (is that a word?) up two more units to fill the first transport, and we'd need to get them to Gythium within two turns, preferably. What's that super amph missile rover doing down in 2Nuts?

And oh, wish me luck again today, I have a second interview with Opera That's one of the reasons I haven't been to active lately.