Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Kassiopeia]

I say we accept. Mead is apparently keen to work with us and reinforcing his position (= our factions making progress) inside their team is also important for us.

I'm going to ask them on the importance of the preacceptation, if only to make them careful not to do anything dodgy (if they are planning to do something dodgy).

[Googlie]

Kass can ask them to send it to us pre-accepted.

When they first proposed their version, the turn was in our hands, so us pre-accepting made sense. Now they'll have it before us, so it makes sense for them to put Ind Econ on pre-accept (at least) if not add the ec's to the Hunter rental. That makes a lot of sense, otherwise we both lose a year of usage

(Meanwhile, we take biogen from the Angels for Gene Splicing?)

[Maniac]

Woops, just read this in the Morganite embassy:

thereal_arginine:
Would the Spartan Federation be willing to delay the delivery of "Gene Splicing" for a few turns?

Shall we say we have sadly already accepted their deal, and a replay is sadly not allowed? Accepting the Morganite request would mean we couldn't trade SocPsych with the UoP this year.
No doubt they ask so that they could research some b-line they're interested in. Any idea what it could be? AdapEcon or something else?

Shall we inform to what they are researching, and aks if they're interesting in some leapfrog? It's possible they're researching something we have, so it would be a waste not to cooperate.

Also if I'm mistaken our first five-year treaty ends this year. Shall we propose a new four-year treaty under the same terms, or negotiate new terms? (Four year would be so the treaty ends MY 2149, and we can then probe-attack & infiltrate Morgan without breaking any treaty or agreement.)

[Googlie]

A couple of things - if we are going to redo the turn (I've got my laptop primed to do that) then we are invoking the parallel diplo rule, which means that everything else that I'd done up to the point of actually accepting the pact with Lal would have to stand, so that would mean that we'd already accepted the Morgan deal this turn.

Secondly, there's no penalties for infiltration - other than maybe killing a defender probe of theirs - if we found a base with no probe defense, then there'd be no repercussions.

As to leapfrogging, I'd be in favor of each of us laying our cards on the table as to what we're researching - as Maniac says, there's no point in duplicating research.

(And it's a valid point re the maps - Morgan is prolly as close to Zak on Chiron's "dark side" as we are in the sunlight, so it's only a matter of time before they infiltrate him. I should have thought of that in teh beginning.)

[Googlie]

Midturn.sav posted in the turn thread.

I see that jtsisyoda responded in the embassy to arginine that he'd already acceptyed the deal, and I responded likewise that it's a done deal.

As to the other suggestions (treaty refreshment, etc), I didn't touch on them in my Embassy post - I'll leve that to internal discussion and then the Diplomats can respond

[Googlie]

This posted in the Embassy (Voyages of the SCC Hunter)

[Kassiopeia]

In light of the recent trade we have and our seeming lack of plans to invade Morgan for the next turns, I think an extension is in order. But the length is what confounds me. Five years may be a bit too short, but if we go with ten they might get very suspicious. Fifteen? And we have to take in the pact consideration too, if we are to pact with them a permanent treaty would help negotiations a great deal, a show of trust.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Also if I'm mistaken our first five-year treaty ends this year. Shall we propose a new four-year treaty under the same terms, or negotiate new terms? (Four year would be so the treaty ends MY 2149, and we can then probe-attack & infiltrate Morgan without breaking any treaty or agreement.)

No - the Treaty was effective 2142, so ends in the 2147 year (we have had only 3 payments under the profit sharing plan - 1 x 4 and 2 x 5 ec's)

see here for Mead's accounting

[Googlie]

Got this PM from Arginine today:

Received from Arginine of Morgan Industries
Hmm, I should check my PMs more frequently. Fortunately, we have done the tech trade deal.

I would like this bit to remain secret, but I'd like to buy some more techs on the open market. A highly desired tech soon would be worth a large payment. Don't expect to see any activity in this area in the near future.

To which I replied, trying to feed their paranoia:

PM sent by Googlie to Arginine
For enough ec's I'm sure anything can be arranged.

Be aware, though, that the diplo lines are humming after your completion of the PTS. Everyone remember's Kody's brilliant play last game (where the Hive went on a binge of colonypod building - found a new base, size 3, quickly complete 2 colony pods that in turn found new size-3 bases) and can extrapolate Morgan having, say, 30 to 40 size 3 bases by 2160 or so. You don't need rec commons with the +1 talent that the HGP gives you and the -1 drone that the PTS gives you

So the ganging up has begun. However, as much as it is in my power to do so, Sparta will remian as a neutral middleman for as long as possible.

The Hive, too, is worrying us. Currently the good Chairman is producing no less than 15 impact-weaponed units, and is researching gatling weapons!! We need Silksteel Armour and Chaos weapons ASAP

I wonder if they're saving up to buy Ecol Eng from us?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
I wonder if they're saving up to buy Ecol Eng from us?

Why not ask them? And perhaps suggest some kind of leapfrog if possible.

[Googlie]

Or how about a blockbuster deal with Morgan along a different research path than the Angels-Gaian proposal

The Googlie Manifesto - Clean Reactors and the Ascetic Virtues by 2160

Bio Engineering (clean reactors) needs Gene Splicing (which we have) and Neural Grafting, which in turn needs Industrial Automation (we both have that) and Secrets (which we have)

So ... if we can get Morgan to research - and pass on to us - Neural Grafting and BioEngineering, we'll need to give them Secrets and GS, and prolly something else too - I imagine that'd need to be Ecol Eng.

Planetary Economics (the Ascetic Virtues) needs Adaptive Economics (my guess is that Morgan is currently researching this) and Intellectual Integrity (which I propose we shift to in 2148)

So a deal might look like:

Sparta gives Morgan:

• Secrets of the Human Brain
• Gene Splicing
• Ecological Engineering
• Intellectual Integrity, when researched

Morgan gives Sparta:

• Neural Grafting
• Bio Engineering
• Adaptive Economics
• Planetary Economics

We get 4 useful techs for nothing (we plan on researching Int Int anyway) - and maybe in exchange for agreeing not to build the PEG or the AV, Morqan agrees not to build the Neural Amplifier (we'll want that for the psi boost for the inevitable fight against the Gaians) and lets us be free to trade or sell these at any time - but perhaps only to the AI

(We know that Zak is researching Environmental Economics - and will have it by 2150 - so we might have something of value to trade him for it. In any event, our stealing it from him will likely trigger the war that we want - and keep our reputation intact)

Thoughts?

[Googlie]

(I sent a feeler out to Arginine along these lines to see if there's any merit in pursuing it. If that's not what they're researching, then we're wasting our time

text of PM from Googlie to Argenine
Re: ACDG-3 Possible Morgan-Sparta blockbuster deal

Man, it's hard getting the Junta to think of dealing with Morgan - you guys are really tight lipped about what techs we have that you may be interested in.

Here's something I put before the Junta today for their consideration (I call it The Googlie Manifesto)

*************************************************

The Googlie Manifesto

Clean Reactors and the Ascetic Virtues by 2160

Bio Engineering (clean reactors) needs Gene Splicing (which we have) and Neural Grafting, which in turn needs Industrial Automation (we both have that) and Secrets (which we have)

So ... if Morgan Industries agrees to research - and pass on to us - Neural Grafting and BioEngineering, we'll give Morgan Industries Secrets and GS, (and prolly something else too - I imagine Ecological Engineering would be of most interest.)

Planetary Economics (the Ascetic Virtues) needs Adaptive Economics (which Morgan Industries should research - for the PEG if for nothing else) and Intellectual Integrity (which Sparta will shift to imminently)

So a deal might look like:

Sparta gives Morgan:

• Secrets of the Human Brain
• Gene Splicing
• Ecological Engineering
• Intellectual Integrity, when researched

Morgan gives Sparta:

• Neural Grafting
• Bio Engineering
• Adaptive Economics
• Planetary Economics

We'll undertake not to build the Planetary Energy Grid nor the Ascetic Virtues provided Morgan Industries undertakes not to build the Neural Amplifier and permits us to trade or sell those techs (after any associated SP's have been completed) but only to the AI

*************************************************

This is exploratory - and unlike my previous attempt this time it has the support of the Junta (along the lines of "see what they might be interested in doing - what lines are they currently researching, what do we have that may interest them")

I'm coming to you rather than just posting it to the Embassy as I feel that you'll be able to tell me right off the bat if I'm wasting my time trying to be a Morgan advocate within the Junta and engineer some deals that will benefit both our factions, or if I should just bow to the pressure that's building to join the ABM axis (anyone but Morgan)

Cheers

Googlie

Let's see what that dredges up

[Kassiopeia]

Oh, awesome. It'd be great if we could leapfrog with the entire rest of the Planet for the next decade or so.

[Maniac]

I like this.

But can this be done?

Originally posted by Googlie
Sparta gives Morgan:
Intellectual Integrity, when researched

If the simulator is any indication, our tech costs will rise to more than 600 labs after we've researched DocIni. So even if we didn't switch to Fundy and kept labs spending on 60% (and thus had ~20 labs/year), it would still take 30 years to research IntInt.

[Googlie]

Well, but does it? Remember that everyone else, too, will be getting more techs so our relative ratio isn't increasing. It's pretty moot now anyway, as we won't have Doc Loyalty in 2147