Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
AFAIK that's never been even a distinct goal for us, so if it makes them happy

Originally posted by Maniac
I wouldn't mind either promising not to build the PEG

I have no objection to this clause - I don't thinbk we evr had designs on it

By the way, why do they want the techs pre-accepted this year already? Can't we just offer them in the diplobox without already pressing the "Accept" button?

Could be that they have Ethical calculus neering completion (in 2145, for example) and want to be able to change immediately to a tech that they'll get that same turn (doc init, ecol eng maybe - althought the latter prolly isn't the case as they know we have it, so why duplicate it)

I think we should put them in the diplo box, pending, and if they gripe say that the Junta had some reservations re Ind Econ's embargo and we couldn't see it as being resolvable before our turn time limit expired (in 8 hours)

[Googlie]

Good post in the embassy, Kass

(I see there's a flurry of activity in the forums by mead and endgame, etc - I guess they are considering how to respond.)

If they come back with the no-trade lifted, do we want to pre-accept or just send it out with the 2 techs still in negotiating stage? (And I bet they counter with the request to share in 1/2 the extra we get for on-trading it !!)

(Actually, if I end it out right now, citing personal time pressures (gotta pack that computer for the drive south ....... which is actually true - it's one of the first things I shove right to the back of the trunk) then technically it'd go before any trade could be finalized)

[Kassiopeia]

If they come back with the no-trade lifted, do we want to pre-accept or just send it out with the 2 techs still in negotiating stage?

Your call. The trade can proceed as far as I'm concerned (if they drop the clause), but I feel uncomfortable about "supplying the goods" before we get the payment.

[Googlie]

OK - that settles it then (I feel the same way, esp after the Gaian experience)

I'm on my laptop now - desktop is all packed up and in my car - so I'll download the endsav from the turn thread and finish and send it out with the trade pending

[Googlie]

I see they've responded with a counter offer (and I lost the bet - they aren't asking to share third party revenue)

Posted by Mead in the Embassy
To summarize again:
Our Revised Offer assuming the Corporation agrees with what I'm thinking (I really want to make this deal work for us, but I have to check with the Corporation)

We give you Industrial Economics, 8 ECs per year for 15 years (120 ECs total), our commitment to not transfer Ethical Calculus to anyone else for 9 years, and our commitment to never build the CDF.

You give us Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicing, DELETED[your commitment to not transfer Industrial Economics to anyone else for 9 years], and your commitment to never build the PEG ADDED[and your commitment to never build the Ascetic Virtues].

I don't think we had the AV high on our list of priorities, but I hate the way they keep upping the ante

We're doing them a favor, really, giving these 2 techs away for what amounts to 145 ec's (120 over 15 years from Morgan for EC and 25 (prolly) ec's from Zak for Ind Econ.

Plus, our already meager research rate will drop after we add Ind Econ to our list of techs - it's not as though we need it for Ind Auto - or will rush to build energy banks everywhere - or even change to Free Market. We just want it so that we'll get Doc Loyalty as a tech choice, followed by Int Int and the chance to build the CDF. But unless we can steal either we're looking at 4 years to complete Doc Init, 12 for Doc Loyalty and another 12 for Int Int, 28 in all

Although I've ben a strong proponent of a deal with Morgan, it's becoming apparent that it's more and more one sided. They're not exactly pushing ec's our way.

Perhaps we rethink whether we do indeed need the CDF. If we changed to HEC in 2148, then stole it from Lal, we'd see Synthetic Fossils appear as a choice to change to, with Doc:Air appearing after we get that.

Given a choice between building the CDF in 2173, or getting missile weapons in - perhaps - 2160 and Doc Air in the early 2170's, I know where my vote would go (But get our formers to build some decent sensor coverage)

Anyone else thinking this way?

(ie - tell Morgan we're really disappointed, take everything off the table and let's for the time being just co-exist in an uneasy treaty - them whingeing about the ec's they're sending us and us about giving them the SCC Hunter ecploration data)

[Kassiopeia]

Yes, this looks like a good time to reconsider CDF's significance. They are trying to make us pay by the nose. We need to perhaps teach them a lesson - when we say we want to have a deal according to these parametres, you can't just go adding things all along and expect us to just accept.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
... They are trying to make us pay by the nose. We need to perhaps teach them a lesson - when we say we want to have a deal according to these parametres, you can't just go adding things all along and expect us to just accept.

Welcome to dealing with humans...

[Googlie]

Maybe:

I see that when we are proposing a deal to you we should never open negotiations with what we believe is a fair offer, but rather double the asking price!!

That way, after all the beating down of our asking price and the addition of your escalators, we might actually have a deal that we can live with,

This is by way of saying that the proposed trade of Ethical Calculus and Gene Splicing for Industrial Economics and 120 energy credits has been withdrawn.

Methinks a frosty posture for a few turns is called for.

[Kassiopeia]

Yeah. Mead sent me a sort of plea, "the others are angry at me for not managing to make a deal for such a long time". This might allow us to push further so that Mead is desperate to get *any* deal possible done.

[Kassiopeia]

I'll just post your message verbatim, no point in spending any extra effort on these Morganite loons.

[Maniac]

Mead replied this:

We are disappointed with your withdrawl of your offer. We were strongly considering accepting it, but sought to explore whether there were other oppurtunties where we could better help each other meet our needs.

Please note that the promise to not build the CDF, the best defensive SP available in this game (now that the CBA is gone) was a major concession on our part. Your possession of the CDF, and denial of it to all the other factions, would be a substantial benefit to you and loss to us.

We remain willing and eager to work with you.
If you want to put your offer back on the table, that is fine with us, if you also want to make another suggestion, we would be happy to hear it. Our offer remains open and on the table.

If you feel your offer is fair and one you can live with then why remove it from the table?

We felt that the no AV build clause was a fair exchange for you being allowed to profit on trading (Industrial Economics) while we could not profit off trading for 9 years off (Ethical Calculus). Is keeping your options open on building the AV that important to you? We thought it didn't matter all that much to you. We are eager to hear what you have to say.

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

How about we also offer them a seperate no-embargo IndEcon<->Gene Splicing deal, and leave EthCalc for a seperate deal? And whoever accepts first, Morgan or Angel, we trade with?

[KrysiasKrusader]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Yeah. Mead sent me a sort of plea, "the others are angry at me for not managing to make a deal for such a long time". This might allow us to push further so that Mead is desperate to get *any* deal possible done.

Are you serious?

Then send back a message telling them to be more realistic concerning the needs for both factions.

[Kassiopeia]

Our correspondance:

Kass and Googlie

I posted this in the embassy.

Could you let me know what's happening. I'd really like to move the discussions along. I think my team is getting a little fed up with me for taking so long to reach a deal.

* repeat of Mead's post in the embassy *

I replied:

I'm sorry, some members of the Junta have had Real Life issues and we have trouble reaching a quorum. I have to get some consensus before I do decisions by myself alone.

Then I posted our withdrawal in the embassy.

Then he sent this:

I replied to your earlier PM before I read your post in the embassy.

I surprised, I thought we were making progess. I was not trying to insult you.

I want to be fair and open to explore the best outcome for both of us.

I was not saying if your that was your final offer then we were uninterested.

I would appreciate working through this with you so we can move onto more valuable joint ventures with Sparta.

If the offer you made is the best and final Spartan offer then place it back on the table in the embassy and we may have a deal.

If you will not be placing it back on the table, then please let me know.

I think our little 'trick' may have worked, and we'll be able to work out the deal without the AV limitation. Again, this was not a matter of whether AV was of important to us, but more a matter of increasing terms being piled on what we've thought to be a good and finished deal.

I'm partial to putting the trade back on the table, or going with just GeneSplicing<->IndEcon if we want to.

[Kassiopeia]

Now I'm sending this:

Kass

I surprised, I thought we were making progess. I was not trying to insult you.

It hasn't been thought of such, not by a mile. It is just that we got tired of the Morganites adding on to the deal time after time. Clearly a difference in the way we approach negotiations, nothing more or else.

I want to be fair and open to explore the best outcome for both of us.

Likewise.

I was not saying if your that was your final offer then we were uninterested.

No you were not, but the Junta saw it fit to pull out from negotiations which weren't appearing to be going the way we wanted them to.

I would appreciate working through this with you so we can move onto more valuable joint ventures with Sparta.

As do I, but I am restricted with what the others think of things. (In the Morgan/Gaian split I'm taking a strictly neutral stance, if only because of my position.)

If the offer you made is the best and final Spartan offer then place it back on the table in the embassy and we may have a deal. If you will not be placing it back on the table, then please let me know.

[/quote]

I will tell the others this, and it's possible that we can reoffer the trade provided you'll agree to it. The Junta will be uncomfortable having to 'flipflop' like that and may need a little coaxing, perhaps an official request from you in the embassy to reinstate the trade and that you will accept it if we offer it? (I haven't checked the embassy yet so I don't know yet if there is such a proposal from you already.)

- Kass

[Maniac]

Brilliant!

Per our recent discussions I understand that is the best and final offer of the Junta.

So we incorporate your terms removing the no trade clause on Industrial Economics:


We Offer
We give you Industrial Economics, 8 ECs per year for 15 years (120 ECs total), our commitment to not transfer Ethical Calculus to anyone else for 9 years, and our commitment to never build the CDF.

You give us Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicing, and your commitment to never build the PEG.

If you agree, please send both Techs to us preaccepted and post a response here confirming your acceptance.

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

Accept it I guess?
Though why do they want us to send them the techs pre-accepted? Why can't they already offer IndEcon and 13c (5 from the commerce & 8 from the trade) on the table in their 2145 turn, and us then putting EthCalc & Gene Splicing on the table and accepting it. They'll still get their techs the same year, and they can't "pull a PEACE" on us.
We'd then get our 2145 share of the commerce in 2146, but that's only a minor issue I assume.