Sparta-Gaian relations

[Googlie]

EDIT: Ah, I hate it when the pages break beetween 2 linked posts - go to last post in the previous page for this one to make any sense

And in return, swallow our pride and ask the gaians to put the Angels' commlink on the table pre-accepted and we'll reciprocate with Morgans'?

Or do we jealously guard that knowledge (both commlinks) to ourselves?

(And, obviously I think, the Angels don't have Morgan's either or surely Gaia would have gotten it from them)

So what - other than fear-mongering - leads Morgan to conclude that there is a deep Angels-Gaian axis?

[Googlie]

Edit: See last post in previos page if this is the first post you go to, then continue from there

Then we'll offer to sell the Gaian commlink to Morgan for 25 ec's?

(As an aside, when they opened the 2140 turn and saw all our techs and commlinks on offer, the Gaian one was absent - and what really bugs me is that I opened that commlink and offered all techs right after establishing contact with the Gaians, to see if they had already met, and in its absence we've then worked on that assumption - and my explanation in the Embassy (which was the truth) was that we were investigating whether Morgan had already contact with "another faction that we have just met". This would lead them to assume that it was one of the AI factions we'd met

Further, they'd assume that we hadn't yet met the Gaians, since that faction's commlink didn't appear on the offer sheet (well, not necessarily, although they will now if they trust my Embassy response. They might originally have assumed that we were "being selective" re: what we exposed in the trade offer window)

All of this certainly puts a different spin on affairs (to say nothing of making the head spin!!)

I suggest:

We ask the Gaians to put the Angels' commlink on the table, pre accepted, and in return (next turn) we'll give them Morgan's pre-accepted

We ask Morgan (right now, or at least before the turn reaches Morgan) if they want to buy the Gaians' commlink for 25 ec's (is that a fair price, or do we ask what they're willing to pay for the Gaians commlink?)

IMO we're in the same position (actually at least 25 ec's better off, and maybe 50 ec's better off) than we were before Illuminatus posted that Embassy message, so I don't see any downside to this

Except - some opportunities may be lost (in our hoarding intelligence), so they (the potential lost opportunities) need to be aired and possibly quantified, before a decision is made (but must be made soon - ie before the Gaians' turn-end - if we are to capitalize. Or postpone the whole possible commlink exchange for another year - what we don't want to do is straddle 2 years)

(in other words, pull the same trick on the Gaians that we were suspecting they were trying to pull on us when they asked us to remove the 25 ec's from the table - and in retropect they prolly weren't being nefarious, but just thinking ahead - possible Angels for Morgan swap, maybe?)

(Of course, we must also decide if we really must have the Angels' commlink so urgently. Maybe we just offer to sell the Morgan link to the Gaians (rather than trade for the Angels) and also sell the Gaians' link to Morgan)

Junta's thoughts?

[Maniac]

How about first checking if we can sell gene splicing to the Morganites, and DocFlex to the Gaians? And if we can get their commlink, Gene Splicing, DocMob & DocFlex to the Angels? That way we can prevent that eg the Morganites sell DocMob/DocFlex to the Gaians/Angels, and that in five years time the Gaians sell Gene Splicing to the Morganites.

[Googlie]

That's good

(We make it one of Kassi's priorities to get megacash for GS from Morgan and DF from the Gaians)

[Googlie]

aha - problem solved

(Go to the fresh 2141 turn, and open it, then click on Morgan. That screen that I left open last turn comes up. now click on the "offer all techs" again, and the gaian commlink gets added.

I must have tested Morgan immediately after R-112 met the mindworm in 2140, so from the game's perspective, as I hadn't yet opened the Gaian commlink, we hadn't yet met. By 2141, when we had a treaty, we'd obviously met, so the commlink gets added to the list of available techs)

[Googlie]

How about a stall-response to Illuminatus along the lines of:

Unfortunately the Chairman is not being very compliant right now as regards parting with commlink information - (which is true - he won't sell us the Angels' one ) perhaps as a result of our rover rummaging around in his territory. However rest assured, we will keep trying

So we wouldn't be lying, just letting the Gaians draw their own (wrong) conclusions

Meanwhile trade deals can be consumated, ec's accumulated, techs probed from Zak, others' paranoia fuelled, etc etc

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
I've been mulling this whole episode in my mind all day...

I believe that we could probably instill more emphasis on this by having someone else post under Snoddasmannen's post in the Gaian forum, something like this:

"Although Captain Snoddasmannen's apology has been rendered. Let it be known that this was not, as he claims, a request by the Junta Disciplinary Board of Inquiry, but instead a demand that he do so.


Officer of Spartan Internal Affairs,
Charge of Junta Disciplinary Board of Inquiry.


(Someone correct my terminolgy or spelling)

That would work well. I think it could also be interesting for somebody else pretending to be from the Hiverian shadow Junta to jump in and defend me. I don't really need defending at the moment however, let them think I'm a troll. When the time comes, other members of the shadow junta might surface, and then the Gaians can start putting together the pieces.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Googlie
How about a stall-response to Illuminatus along the lines of:

Unfortunately the Chairman is not being very compliant right now as regards parting with commlink information - (which is true - he won't sell us the Angels' one ) perhaps as a result of our rover rummaging around in his territory. However rest assured, we will keep trying

So we wouldn't be lying, just letting the Gaians draw their own (wrong) conclusions

I like it

[Googlie]

Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
I believe that we could probably instill more emphasis on this by having someone else post under Snoddasmannen's post in the Gaian forum, something like this:

"Although Captain Snoddasmannen's apology has been rendered. Let it be known that this was not, as he claims, a request by the Junta Disciplinary Board of Inquiry, but instead a demand that he do so.


Officer of Spartan Internal Affairs,
Charge of Junta Disciplinary Board of Inquiry.

And in the context of Illuminatus reply to S's apology:

Posted by Illuminatus in the Embassy
I cannot accept apology. I do not wish to condone anyone's opinion, no matter how bad is it, because it is the democratic right of him to do so. You should not apologize to me for simply saying what you mean, but to Junta for bypassing their laws and protocols.

Perhaps a short piece by me in response, (as Recording Officer to the Junta) explaining "how the Junta works" during Colonel Santiago's indisposition, might be able to use the above as an example.

eg,

"We are an aggregation of senior and less senior officers whose comon line of command is to the Colonel. Even Lt-Col Maniac has restricted authority, so the Junta currently operates much like a fledgling Democracy already. But in the absence from meetings of our founder, the Colonel, "laws and protocols" are still in the process of being developed, so technically the (now) Lieutenant breached none that were in effect at the time.

However, ................" (and here KK's suggested wording - amended slightly - can be inserted)

I could even go on a little about "Hawk" and "Dove" splinters (leaning towards the Hive and Gaians respectively)

I'm off to golf right now, so will have a go later today and submit something for the Junta to mull over

[KrysiasKrusader]

Originally posted by Googlie
aha - problem solved

I must have tested Morgan immediately after R-112 met the mindworm in 2140, so from the game's perspective, as I hadn't yet opened the Gaian commlink, we hadn't yet met.

Uh - okay.
This probably offers an explanation (partial one any ways) to my post in the Sparta-Morgan Relations thread.
When I was checking things out, other units had already moved and so the game had registered the contact.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Originally posted by Googlie

And in the context of Illuminatus reply to S's apology:

Yea. Since he replied in the meanwhile, we have to change somethings, else it loses its intended effect.

Originally posted by Googlie
Perhaps a short piece by me in response, (as Recording Officer to the Junta) explaining "how the Junta works" during Colonel Santiago's indisposition, might be able to use the above as an example.

eg,

"We are an aggregation of senior and less senior officers whose comon line of command is to the Colonel. Even Lt-Col Maniac has restricted authority, so the Junta currently operates much like a fledgling Democracy already. But in the absence from meetings of our founder, the Colonel, "laws and protocols" are still in the process of being developed, so technically the (now) Lieutenant breached none that were in effect at the time.

However, ................" (and here KK's suggested wording - amended slightly - can be inserted)

Sounds good.

Originally posted by Googlie
I could even go on a little about "Hawk" and "Dove" splinters (leaning towards the Hive and Gaians respectively)

I feel that this would be a little too much.

Originally posted by Googlie
I'm off to golf right now, so will have a go later today and submit something for the Junta to mull over

I never understood this. How can you derive satisfaction from trying to put a little ball in a small hole?

[Googlie]

Posted by Googlie in the Embassy, (Military Affairs category)

We understand your reluctance to expend energy credits for information you hope to soon have yourselves.

Unfortunately the Chairman is not being very compliant right now as regards parting with commlink information (perhaps as a result of our rover rummaging around in his territory}. However rest assured, we will keep trying.

(And please pass on our best wishes from our covert operations specialists to your undercover agents as they attempt Hive infiltration. The offer is still open to provide specific Hive base data if you wish to view any base defenses beforehand)

Major Googlie (Commander, Covert Operations, Sparta Federation)

[Googlie]

Suggested response to the Snoddasmannen Incident:

Dear Lord Illuminatus:

As Recording Officer to the Junta I have been asked to outline - to the best of my understanding - how our Junta operates and how our faction is structured. This may assist you and your colleagues to better appreciate and assess how we "do business"

We are an aggregation of senior and less senior officers whose common line of command is to Colonel Santiago, our faction's founder and leader, who is currently indisposed. Even the current Chair of the Junta, Lt-Col Maniac, has restricted authority, so the Junta currently operates much like a fledgling Democracy already.

Officers have coalesced into two or three groups with common agendas, and while views may differ between and among these groups, concensus is usually reached, albeit occassionally with a dissenting voice or two

But in the absence from meetings of our founder, the Colonel, "laws and protocols" are still in the process of being developed, so technically the (now) Lieutenant Snoddasmannen breached none that were in effect at the time.

However, the view of the Junta as a whole was that such a serious breach of protocol could not be let stand (Major Kassiopeia is the Officer Commanding our Diplomatic Corps, and as such should have been the sole contact carrying any official messages to your faction, unless the Junta has expressly authorized another in specific instances - such as they have with this message)

Lieutenant Snoddasmannen (formerly Captain) siezed the opportunity afforded by your communique to him to respond directly to you in a scabrous manner. (And note that his comment to you, in apology, that the Junta had requested that he issue such an apology is incorrect. The Junta demanded that he do so.)

Which is not to say that he and/or his supporters in the Junta may not be emboldened at some future time to again make their true feelings known to you directly, particularly if their strength in the Junta grows. That is one of the perils of our current "quasi democracy."

But rest assured that you are presently dealing with the true power base within the Junta - one that values the Gaians' friendship and which hopes that both our factions can prosper together.

Major Googlie, Recording Officer to the Junta

[KrysiasKrusader]

[Snoddasmannen]

Good one Googlie, they will be quite stunned at this reply I reckon. Could get them talking